A cry for help - Another example of QF System Failure leading to loss of Award seats

Pushka

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Can I just say a huge kudos to the AFF member who volunteered their time to help @There'sOnlyOneJimmy get this sorted. This is a key example of the value of being a part of a helpful community like AFF.

I think it's appalling that the OP had to resort to this to get their matter sorted (which wasn't even their fault in the first place), but that's another matter...
Totally agree. I was wondering, should when this happens again, I'd appreciate info on how said venerable WP managed this process. Could they ring on the other members behalf separately (I did this earlier this year for SIL who had a very similar experience in regional WA and was being given the four hour wait on the phone thing) or did the WP and Jimmy meet up somewhere to organise it. Might be of assistance to others.
 

Mrmaxwell

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Totally agree. I was wondering, should when this happens again, I'd appreciate info on how said venerable WP managed this process.

As a P1 I've done this using a conference / third party call so all 3 are on the call at once (for privacy / ID confirmation etc)

It is quite easy when you have QF on the back foot "itinerary incorrectly cancelled, no reply from management" etc

Even if the person requiring assistance is a stranger for QF purposes they are of course my long lost relative :cool:
 
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Update - 24 hours since the Hobart call ended:

  • No ticket email yet - sad face, slight tension headache, sphincter clenching, etc.
  • No points activity on QFF account (usually get a credit for old points cost, and debit for new points cost).
  • No charge on my credit card (although the credit card app pinged a charge during the call, there is no charge in the transaction list, nor in pending).
  • My QFF account shows the itinerary with all 8 sectors, 7 as confirmed* & 1 as waitlisted - exactly as expected.
  • Clicking “Email Itinerary”, results in an itinerary listing that looks like an e-ticket, but is headed “Itinerary Receipt “, and doesn’t include any ticket numbers.
  • When I check the itinerary in www.CheckMyTrip.com, the itinerary shows the same as in my QFF account. When I click through a sector it shows the PNR, but no ticket number.
  • When I check the itinerary on the Finnair website (the carrier for the 1 waitlisted sector), the itinerary shows the same as in my QFF account. Interestingly, it shows the 1 waitlisted sector as “Business Class Upgrade Request”. That suggests that there might at least be some economy class seats allocated (which would be an acceptable fallback option as this is a only a 3 hour sector), but that thought is more based in hope than reality I think…
  • When I check the itinerary on the JAL website, the header includes “Status: Ticketed”, but no ticket number is displayed. Seat allocation done, and reflected back in QFF view of the itinerary.
  • When I check the itinerary on the QR website, it includes ticket numbers!! These are different from the last known ticket numbers at 22 May, and all previous ticket numbers allocated to this itinerary. Strangely, the ticket numbers are lower than at 22 May - the May ticket sequence was 081-23225#####, the sequence shown on the QR website is 081-23210#####. Looking at all previous ticket numbers for this itinerary, in every case new ticket numbers were higher than previous ticket numbers (as you’d expect). Seat allocation done, and reflected back in QFF view of the itinerary.

So, despite what I can only think are red herrings on theJAL & QR websites, it looks like the summary of the current position is: Not ticketed, all sectors in jeopardy.

If anyone has a suggestion for anything else I can look at while I wait, please let me know.

I can’t see any point in hassling the call centre yet:
1. 48 hours haven’t passed since the itinerary was sent for ticketing;
2. Hobart told me not to start worrying about the waitlisted sector before Wednesday (allowing for the weekend);
3. Hobart promised me that they will call me back with an update on Tuesday or Wednesday, so I can address it then (assuming promise kept…);
4. Given my Bronze status, I can only get to SA or Fiji, so the risk of them breaking something is just too great at this point (and maybe any point…)

Fingers crossed.
I’ll update again after 48hr, or sooner if tickets issue.
If you’ve made it this far, thanks for your interest.
Jimmy


* Just as an aside… what is “confirmed” meant to mean in this context?
If a ticket doesn’t issue, then the seat is in jeopardy. So “confirmed” really seems only to mean that a seat has been temporarily allocated to me, pending ticketing, but can be withdrawn without notice by the carrier at any time prior to ticketing (after an arbitrary grace period of about 48 hrs).
It doesn’t really sit well with the common understanding of the meaning of the word… Perhaps it should read “Allocated, Pending Ticketing” instead.
 
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Totally agree. I was wondering, should when this happens again, I'd appreciate info on how said venerable WP managed this process. Could they ring on the other members behalf separately (I did this earlier this year for SIL who had a very similar experience in regional WA and was being given the four hour wait on the phone thing) or did the WP and Jimmy meet up somewhere to organise it. Might be of assistance to others.
We met IRL!!!
At a neutral venue.
The WP* made the call on my phone, and entered their credentials (10 times in a row…).
When (finally) we snagged a Hobart agent, they advised that they were acting as the ‘travel arranger’ for me, gave a brief run-down of the issues, asked for assistance on my behalf, then handed over the call to me.

I suspect that this method won’t work with all HBT/AKL agents nor in all circumstances. I’m sure it helped that all the issues stem from Qantas actions & inactions.


* In their defence, very little wingeing was witnessed 🤪
 

kpc

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It is very easy to set up a conference call with a willing P/P1 member to ring Qf to save meeting up in person if you know already know the AFF member.....if too many people do this, I bet Qf will instruct the Premium desk not to assist the non P/P1 member!
 

Pushka

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We met IRL!!!
At a neutral venue.
The WP* made the call on my phone, and entered their credentials (10 times in a row…).
When (finally) we snagged a Hobart agent, they advised that they were acting as the ‘travel arranger’ for me, gave a brief run-down of the issues, asked for assistance on my behalf, then handed over the call to me.

I suspect that this method won’t work with all HBT/AKL agents nor in all circumstances. I’m sure it helped that all the issues stem from Qantas actions & inactions.


* In their defence, very little wingeing was witnessed 🤪
I'd call them. Sorry. We had to call last week to sort out a booking we needed to change. Revenue fare. It was in the same 'processing' queue and not ticketed after a week. On Qantas domestic. Called up and it was ticketed on the phone, as it had been stuck in the queue.
 
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Update - 56 hours since the Hobart call ended (mostly weekend time):
(🟢= positive change, 🟡= status quo, 🔴= adverse change)

🟡 No ticket email yet - Continuing and escalating symptoms of anxiety, helplessness and frustration.
🟡 No points activity on QFF account.
🟢 Fees were charged to my credit card overnight last night, roughly 36hr after the Hobart call (which I’m taking as a positive sign).
🟡 My QFF account shows the itinerary with all 8 sectors, 7 as confirmed & 1 as waitlisted.
🟡 Clicking “Email Itinerary”, results in an itinerary listing that looks like an e-ticket, but is headed “Itinerary Receipt “, and doesn’t include any ticket numbers.
🟡 When I check the itinerary in www.CheckMyTrip.com, the itinerary shows the same as in my QFF account. When I click through a sector it shows the PNR, but no ticket number.
🟡 When I check the itinerary on the Finnair website (the carrier for the 1 waitlisted sector), the itinerary shows the same as in my QFF account. Interestingly, it shows the 1 waitlisted sector as “Business Class Upgrade Request”. That suggests that there might at least be some economy class seats allocated (which would be an acceptable fallback option as this is a only a 3 hour sector), but that thought is more based in hope than reality I think…
🟡 When I check the itinerary on the JAL website, the header includes “Status: Ticketed”, but no ticket number is displayed. Seat allocation done, and reflected back in QFF view of the itinerary.
🟡 When I check the itinerary on the QR website, it includes ticket numbers!! These are different from the last known ticket numbers at 22 May, and all previous ticket numbers allocated to this itinerary. Strangely, the ticket numbers are lower than at 22 May - the May ticket sequence was 081-23225#####, the sequence shown on the QR website is 081-23210#####. Looking at all previous ticket numbers for this itinerary, in every case new ticket numbers were higher than previous ticket numbers (as you’d expect). Seat allocation done, and reflected back in QFF view of the itinerary.

🟡 So, despite what I can only think are red herrings on the QR website, it looks like the summary of the current position is: Not ticketed, all sectors in jeopardy.

If anyone has a suggestion for anything else I can look at while I wait, please let me know.

🟡 I can’t see any point in hassling the call centre yet:
1. It’s mainly weekend hours that have passed since the itinerary was sent for ticketing;
2. Hobart told me not to start worrying about the waitlisted sector before Wednesday (allowing for the weekend);
3. Hobart promised me that they will call me back with an update on Tuesday or Wednesday, so I can address it then (assuming promise kept…);
4. Given my Bronze status, I can only get to SA or Fiji, so the risk of them breaking something is just too great at this point (and maybe any point…)

Fingers crossed.
I’ll update again when there’s something to report.
If you’ve made it this far, thanks for your interest.
Jimmy
 

Matt_01

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I'd be happy to meet up and you can try to use my credentials to get through to AKL or HBA.
4-6 weeks back I did something similar for a team member who I had worked with on a previous project. We went through the game plan before the call was initiated, I called the P1 team (normally HBA off the bat) and when answered gave a brief outline of the problem asked if I could put them on hold while I conferenced in my colleague. She explained the booking issues and put her partner on the call to go through the detaisl. He explained the involuntary changes and what they had gone through with QF, the agent quickly indicated that he was not able to provide direct help (P1 team) as their booking was not made with my points or through my account. However after listening to what they had been through the P1 agent provided advice to him as to 'what to ask the other agents' ,'what they need to look/ search for and how to do this', 'what to tell the agents to do', a number to call for quicker access and a reference number to quote should they have any further issues.

As I was listening to the call it did not take me long to realise that that my work colleague or her partner are AFF members as their flight issues were 99.9% the same as what was being posted in another thread around the same time.
 
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Matt_01

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Totally agree. I was wondering, should when this happens again, I'd appreciate info on how said venerable WP managed this process. Could they ring on the other members behalf separately (I did this earlier this year for SIL who had a very similar experience in regional WA and was being given the four hour wait on the phone thing) or did the WP and Jimmy meet up somewhere to organise it. Might be of assistance to others.
To the best of my knowledge QF have had a system in place that family bookings could be be managed by anyone authorised on on the account. I have been managing MrsM bookings for the past 20 years and my parents for around 15 years. From memory it just took a call or email stating that I was an authorised user on their account.
It is very easy to set up a conference call with a willing P/P1 member to ring Qf to save meeting up in person if you know already know the AFF member.....if too many people do this, I bet Qf will instruct the Premium desk not to assist the non P/P1 member!
You are on the money, as a reference to my previous post the P1 agent was quick to detail that he would not be able to help my colleague based on my status. I would suggest this practice of conference calling may be already be widespread.
 
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Update:
It is now 3.5 business days plus a weekend since ending the call with Hobart.
What was once an optimistic euphoria, believing that the whole mess was being fixed, has now reverted to gut gnawing anxiety that these hard won award seats will disappear once more into the black void that is the QF ticketing queue.

Despite the assurances of the Hobart agent last Friday midday:
* The tickets haven’t issued; and, most disappointingly,
* The agent hasn’t rung back (as was promised).

Fortunately, all sectors are still showing in the itinerary, so none have yet been cancelled by the carriers (even QR!).

So I feel like my only option is to:
* Start calling at first light tomorrow, knowing that my call will go offshore, in an attempt to hold on the line until the tickets issue - a long shot I know;
* When that fails, send emails to the same QF executives that ignored me last week;
* Lodge another case via the Customer Care web form on the QF website (similar to the one that was ignored last week).

Does anyone have any other bright ideas?

Thanks for your interest.
J
 

Speedbird001

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As it says in the title, I’m suffering from another Qantas System Failure.

I have already phoned the call centre many times, I have filed a Customer Care form via the QF website, and I have sent an email to Stephanie Tully (or at least an email address with her name on it that probably goes to an assistant of hers…). So far with no response, let alone solution...

To explain my predicament, following is a (slightly edited) copy of what I sent to Ms Tully:





In my email I tried to keep calm, stick to the facts, and provide realistic solutions. I don’t know what more I can do.

I think this case goes to the very core of the value proposition of accumulating QFF points by the general public.
Qantas goes to great lengths to promote the QFF program, showcasing the many ways of redeeming QFF points: Toasters, Coffee Machines, Gift Cards, Wine, Hotels, Upgrades, Domestic Flights, International Flights, etc.
But underlying it all is the message “if you collect the points, you’ll be able to get long haul international premium cabin award seats*”

* But in the fine print there might be a few passing references to the fact that these are sometimes not available when you want them...

In this instance, I had managed (despite all of the challenges brought by the CV19 period) to cobble together the holy grail of QFF point redemption: The OneWorld Classic Award, with a Europe section and a USA section, split by a “Stop” in SE Asia - only 8 sectors, but maxing out the milage.

As you know, the only way to get this done for a lowly Bronze such as myself, is to put in hours of planning 12 months before the first flight in the itinerary, and then hover over the keyboard on ’seat release day’ (which varies depending upon which carrier you seek) in an attempt to beat all the other like minded members trying to do the same thing.
Of course, for an itinerary that spans more than a few days (i.e. almost all of them…), the award sectors need to be added one or two at a time. But that can’t be done online; each time you need to run the gauntlet that is the Qantas Call Centre [Insert Rant here about the many deficiencies of the QF CC, particularly for lesser status members].

Sorry, I got carried away…
Back to the Core Value I alluded to earlier. There’s a lot involved with compiling a OWCA itinerary, and getting it fully ticketed, but for those with perseverance, time, & knowledge it is possible. But, the itinerary will generally be complete about 6 months before the first sector is due. Particularly now (during CV19 recovery), but even in ’normal times’, there’s a decent chance that there will be carrier initiated schedule changes. And so it can all go down the toilet if QF can’t get the itinerary re-ticketed after the change. With the high number of carrier schedule changes occurring, and the number of ticketing issues detailed by AFF members, the risk of creating an award redemption and later having it snatched away from you is very real.

Just as an aside… During the Europe leg of this itinerary (due to start in 6 or 7 weeks) we are walking about 1,000km from NW Italy to Rome, so I have about 60 nights of accomodation booked, most of them single nights - so its not just the award flights that are at risk here… (but I understand that has nothing to do with Qantas).


So…
If you’re still reading…

Can anyone suggest any other avenues that I can pursue (keeping in mind that I’m not the ‘go to Current Affair’ type, although a bit of written Social Media isn’t out of the question)?

Thank you in advance for any assistance you can give.
Best Regards,
"Jimmy"
Executive Customer Relations <[email protected]>
Handles matters on referred by AJJ and his direct reports. But they’re pushing back too and coming up with poor ‘remedies’ nowadays.
 
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Update:
Two weeks have passed, during which there have been a few calls made, and a lot of waiting done.
Finally today, 20 days after the reinstatement request was made, the last sector now shows in the Itinerary as Confirmed.
But… Qantas has sent the PDF Itinerary, which does NOT include any ticket numbers…
When I look at the Itinerary on the QR website, it shows brand new ticket numbers (which appear to be sequentially logical).
But… when I look on CheckMyTrip, the ticket numbers don’t show.
I‘m out of Australia for the next 2.5 weeks, so calling isn’t an option.
I guess I’ll have to white-knuckle it until I get back home, unless anyone has any bright ideas about how to get in touch with someone capable while I’m in Vietnam.
 
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Update:
Qantas have now sent the Text Based tickets.
The ticket numbers are the same as shown on the QR Website.
I have gone into MMB on each carrier website and selected seats.
These seats are now all reflected in MMB on Qantas website.
BUT…
When I send the Itinerary from Qantas MMB, I get the PDF ‘Itinerary Receipt’, without any ticket numbers, AND…
When I look on CheckMyTrip, the ticket numbers don’t show.

So the question is: Do I have tickets or not?

Am I worrying unnecessarily, or do I need to contact Qantas again?
 

Virgin Bart

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Update:
Qantas have now sent the Text Based tickets.
The ticket numbers are the same as shown on the QR Website.
I have gone into MMB on each carrier website and selected seats.
These seats are now all reflected in MMB on Qantas website.
BUT…
When I send the Itinerary from Qantas MMB, I get the PDF ‘Itinerary Receipt’, without any ticket numbers, AND…
When I look on CheckMyTrip, the ticket numbers don’t show.

So the question is: Do I have tickets or not?

Am I worrying unnecessarily, or do I need to contact Qantas again?
I don't know the answer.

This is just a message of support. Unfortunately you can't be sure "it'll work itself out", but good luck.

The same things worrying you would worry me.
 

Nitro6333

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Update:
Qantas have now sent the Text Based tickets.
The ticket numbers are the same as shown on the QR Website.
I have gone into MMB on each carrier website and selected seats.
These seats are now all reflected in MMB on Qantas website.
BUT…
When I send the Itinerary from Qantas MMB, I get the PDF ‘Itinerary Receipt’, without any ticket numbers, AND…
When I look on CheckMyTrip, the ticket numbers don’t show.

So the question is: Do I have tickets or not?

Am I worrying unnecessarily, or do I need to contact Qantas again?
The only time you can say you have a valid booking is when you have the standard e-ticket (with numbers) I would be asking for that
 

OATEK

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Update:
Qantas have now sent the Text Based tickets.
The ticket numbers are the same as shown on the QR Website.
I have gone into MMB on each carrier website and selected seats.
These seats are now all reflected in MMB on Qantas website.
BUT…
When I send the Itinerary from Qantas MMB, I get the PDF ‘Itinerary Receipt’, without any ticket numbers, AND…
When I look on CheckMyTrip, the ticket numbers don’t show.

So the question is: Do I have tickets or not?

Am I worrying unnecessarily, or do I need to contact Qantas again?
I had a similar issue this week after a re-booking for a cancelled flight, and Checkmytrip kept showing the cancellation message. I deleted the Trip from checkmyTrip and then added it back again, and it all came good including eticket numbers.
 
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I had a similar issue this week after a re-booking for a cancelled flight, and Checkmytrip kept showing the cancellation message. I deleted the Trip from checkmyTrip and then added it back again, and it all came good including eticket numbers.
Thanks for the tip, but that didn’t work for me… (sad face)
 

Longtoo

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Hi There'sOnlyOneJimmy, wow it is quite a story. it seems that you have made some good progress from your perseverance and assistance from that wonderful WP member. I am not suggesting a change of strategy but i wonder when this is over (hopefully with a good outcome for you), would it be worthwhile to complain to the Airline Customer Advocate (Home or https://www.aviationcomplaints.gov.au/). If everyone who has been unfairly treated makes a complaint, they won't be able to just dust it off.
 

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