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Hydroxychloroquine - What Goes On?

stoney

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I've been on plaquenil, hydroxychloroquine for a few years now. Currently hard to get my normal supplies because numpties have somehow obtained scripts and wiped out stocks. The TGA has now stopped that and hopefully pharmacies will replenish. I will be ok for a few weeks and am cutting back to a maintenance dose. I'll let you know one the other side. Interestingly in a Lupus FB group one Lupus person has tested positive just over a week ago. They are in Bankstown, I think it was, in NSW. They have been unwell, fever, but after 8 days feels like they are improving except that they have lost smell and taste. Jury is out.

Im with the others. Don't watch Fox News except for entertainment. If you must, listen to the medicos on this forum (there are many of them) and read the links they provide.
I lived over there for a few years and you soon realise that the big names of radio shock jock world are biased with payola from political parties and NRA etc. They are quite funny to listen too but are very dangerous like COVID-19
 

OZDUCK

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Well I am sure that remember back in the late 1960's, or thereabouts, arriving air passengers had to walk through a trough of disinfectant liquid. There was an outbreak of Foot & Mouth Disease in the U.K.
 

Renato1

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Works both ways. I’m still waiting for your answer about your trivialising the issues of Lupus, displaying no knowledge whatsoever as to what Lupus actually is. I’m happier now though, my script has arrived. I have another 6 weeks of treatment.
Beats me where I supposedly trivialised Lupus. Somewhere in my earlier responses I said it was fair enough keeping some hydroxychloroquine for Lupus sufferers (I have a friend with it) but that I was not overly concerned about the arthritis sufferers, who have other medications available.
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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This thread is long past its use by date.
That is an unsupported assertion.
And clearly an incorrect one, given the number of responses while I have been absent due to unforeseen circumstances.
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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As the report itself says 'evidence regarding its effects in patients is limited' and 'should not be used to guide clinical practice'. So essentially the report says this might work, or it might not. The medical view on this appears to be that on its own this study is unconvincing.
The evidence is limited - but it was a positive outcome.
Had it been a negative outcome - either no effect of makes things worse - then that would have been treated as valuable information.
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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The conclusion of the authors is that more widespread trials are needed.
None of the patients in the trial were defined as critical.
It is kind of hard to do a randomised trial of critical patients.

Their test of infected patients showed significantly quicker recovery times for those with hydroxychloroquine than those without.

Useful to know, if accurate, for further investigation, especially for forecasting times spent in treatment/hospital.
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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Chinese made COVID products faulty / defective. A few articles today, that highlight ignorance about self certification, and making a product that matches a statement that it conforms to the manufacture process.
That is to say there is a difference between quality control and quality assurance, but the purchasing area has gone dumb - it seems.
In the circumstances - not quite right or defective buying decisions can be salvaged. Not quite masks can be used by less critical areas, and tests that do not 'develop' can be modified, like 30 minutes instead of 10, and more narrow temperature range. Be agile - adapt! Understand the defect and limitations. Now is not the time to be goldplating the gold standard - as TGA leans towards the impossible.

But great news about Ivermectin (spoiler only 1 in 10 invitro leads tend to be ok in live humans), and that drug has newer more moden variants. There may be a run on dog deworming tablets and sheep dips.
Interesting thanks.
It used to be fairly common practice 10 to 20 years ago of sending quality assurance auditors over to China to ensure they were making good products for contracts. I knew several such auditors doing that task for companies here in Australia. I don't know if that still happens. Might need to happen again - quickl, with lots of QA auditors.
Regards,
Renato
 

Pushka

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Beats me where I supposedly trivialised Lupus. Somewhere in my earlier responses I said it was fair enough keeping some hydroxychloroquine for Lupus sufferers (I have a friend with it) but that I was not overly concerned about the arthritis sufferers, who have other medications available.
Regards,
Renato
Let me refresh you.

Oh - I'd seen those things. The other part was their concern about the drugs being not being available for people with current genuine need of the drugs.
Which was fair enough for the tiny percentage of people with Lupus, but it seems to me that the larger group using the drugs for arthritis wouldn't really have priority over those facing death from the virus. and could be put on painkillers instead.
Sure, let's put these people who have been on Plaquenil successfully for years, on steroids for the duration and deal with that mess once Covid has long gone. And hope that in the meantime, they don't experience
  • liver disease, such as liver tumors and cysts.
  • kidney disease.
  • heart attack and stroke.
  • altered mood, irritability, increased aggression, depression or suicidal tendencies.
Painkillers? give me a break. Every lupus sufferer I know, and I know more than just 1, (😉) experiences arthritis. My niece in her late twenties, was using a walking stick at times. Until she started plaquenil. It wasn't until in her 30's that the markers for Lupus came through enough for the diagnosis of Lupus came through, before that, she was, as you flick off, merely an arthritis suffer. She did dreadfully on steroids. I was luckier, my markers turned to Lupus much quicker but I was older. Although maybe they were always there but not tested for.
 
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cove

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Trump pushed a drug that could cause heart rhythm issues.....he has no idea.....oh it could stop your heart beating......
 

Steady

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It used to be fairly common practice 10 to 20 years ago of sending quality assurance auditors over to China to ensure they were making good products for contracts.
Regards,
Renato
Still commonplace - I had 3 QC inspectors on their way to monitor industrial products just as the outbreak hit and all travel was stopped.
 

drron

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Trump pushed a drug that could cause heart rhythm issues.....he has no idea.....oh it could stop your heart beating......
Sorry Cove but you are talking about chloroquine which has been used and approved for some 65 years without major incidence of side effects.The risk of a heart rhythm issue is about the same risk as severe myositis (which can be fatal ) with statins which are used by millions.

It is now being used in many Covid patients in trials around the world including Australia.
 

Pushka

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Sorry Cove but you are talking about chloroquine which has been used and approved for some 65 years without major incidence of side effects.The risk of a heart rhythm issue is about the same risk as severe myositis (which can be fatal ) with statins which are used by millions.

It is now being used in many Covid patients in trials around the world including Australia.
I was able to fill a script yesterday for plaquenil. Yay me. I can go back to proper dose now as I'd cut back just in case. Newest bottle is manufactured by Sanofi and states Plaquenil. Old bottle was generics, Apo-hydroxychloroquine produced by Apotek so something has changed.

Does Trump have shares in Sanofi as reported by NY Times?
 

teammongo

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Those of us who work in this field know that nothing is ever as simple as it looks.

Not all studies are positive. Small study from Paris (Molina et al) - no effect on viral clearance. 80% still RNA positive on day 5-6.
This is stark contrast from the Marseille study (Gautret et al) suggested 70% RNA "cured" within 6 days.

So the answer is not clear, and larger study results are needed before we know if hydrocychloroquine is truely effective.
 

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Pushka

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Those of us who work in this field know that nothing is ever as simple as it looks.

Not all studies are positive. Small study from Paris (Molina et al) - no effect on viral clearance. 80% still RNA positive on day 5-6.
This is stark contrast from the Marseille study (Gautret et al) suggested 70% RNA "cured" within 6 days.

So the answer is not clear, and larger study results are needed before we know if hydrocychloroquine is truely effective.
I wonder if the patients, who did seem to have significant co morbidities, don't reflect the pattern for patients who are desperately ill with Covid but no other health issues.
 

dajop

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Those of us who work in this field know that nothing is ever as simple as it looks.
I don't work in the field, but as a "layperson" , the simplistic "this works" or "that works" type discussion does seem to misrepresent the situation. One thing that immediately comes to mind is that the drug itself is just one part of the equation. The dosage is the other critical part.

What dosage does it work at? What dosage does it cause harm? It's all very well saying it works - but how much is needed, at what frequency? It's also very well saying there is a history of safe use, with very low chance of side effects - but at what dosage is that history of use (as we know with any substance, it's the dose that makes the poison).? How does the efficacious dose stack up against the "safe" dose?
 

Pushka

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I don't work in the field, but as a "layperson" , the simplistic "this works" or "that works" type discussion does seem to misrepresent the situation. One thing that immediately comes to mind is that the drug itself is just one part of the equation. The dosage is the other critical part.

What dosage does it work at? What dosage does it cause harm? It's all very well saying it works - but how much is needed, at what frequency? It's also very well saying there is a history of safe use, with very low chance of side effects - but at what dosage is that history of use (as we know with any substance, it's the dose that makes the poison).? How does the efficacious dose stack up against the "safe" dose?
I'm on 2x200 mg once a day but had to start at 1x200mg a day then 1 200mg in the am and then 1 in the pm due to potential side effects. I had none and so progressed to full dose once a day within a couple of weeks.

I did read in one of the papers that with Covid the initial dose was 600 mg BID (twice a day) x 2 doses (presumably 2 doses means 2 days?) then 200 mg TID (three times a day). For five days.
 

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