Hydroxychloroquine - What Goes On?

Renato1

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I like watching Fox News.

Last Monday, on his radio show, Hannity interviewed a Doctor in a New York hotspot. Doctor said, he treated 350 patients of his and 150 in another area with hydroxychloroquine, antibiotics and zinc sulfate . At that time, he had had none going to hospital and none dead.

Next day Hannity had another New York doctor on who was also treating his patients with hydroxychloroquine - he was more coy about citing facts and figures, but said his results from using the anti-malaria drug on patients were positive.

On Saturday, Tucker Carlson had another doctor on describing the nightmare in New York hospitals. The Doctor then stated that he was using the anti-malaria drug as a prophylactic.

And New York Governor Cuomo was procuring 750,000 doses of the malaria drug chloroquine; 70,000 doses of its derivative, hydroxychloroquine; and 10,000 doses of the antibiotic Zithromax.

After President Trump expressed optimism over the results that French doctors had gotten with the drugs, and he had ordered the FDA to fast track testing of hydroxychloroquine, the Governors of Nevada and Michigan then passed orders preventing their doctors from using hydroxychloroquine on their patients,

These reports sort of raised a lot of questions to me like -
Would it not be a simple statistical test to see if, on contracting the virus, the population of people currently taking the drug for Lupus and arthritis have a significantly lower hospitalisation and death rate than the general population?

Would it not be a simple statistical test to compare the hundreds already treated with the drugs after contracting the virus, to an equivalent number of people who contracted the virus a few weeks prior who weren't treated?

What's up with those State Governors banning its use? and

Is the drug useless, or are New Yorkers and people here and in other countries now dying needlessly?

Then, on The Bolt Report tonight, he reported that New York health workers are now on the anti-malaria drug.
And that France and Italy now allows it to be used in some cases.
And that our health workers will be starting a trial in three weeks.

So, is this some kind of Right Wing Conspiracy in presenting the information above?
Or, does a partial cure fo rthe epidemic exist, but it doesn't work for the public ......but it is good for health workers? (Kind of reminds me of our Face Mask discussion)

Any thoughts?
Regards,
Renato
 
Your position is that social distancing works in among groups of people visiting stores, visiting doctors, visiting pharmacies - but amazingly doesn't work when practiced on the beach or in a park.
The only amazing thing is how you have no compunction in lying about what my position is. I have never stated this.

I have always stated that social distancing works everywhere.
 
The only amazing thing is how you have no compunction in lying about what my position is. I have never stated this.

I have always stated that social distancing works everywhere.

Of course you stated right that outright. But who is lying here?
Just as an example you wrote,
"....and hey why not even drive out to the country to stargaze. "

There isn't a single activity one can do that is more socially distant, - it is total isolation in fact - removing one's presence from the entire neighbourhood, the entire town.

But NOPE - you're against that.
Are you worried that such stargazers might infect wombats?
Regards,
Renato
 
...removing one's presence from the entire neighbourhood, the entire town.

As stated previously, driving that far out of town is potentially going to take police resources away to question you instead of their other duties. So even driving out of town will have indirect implications for the fight against the virus.
 
As stated previously, driving that far out of town is potentially going to take police resources away to question you instead of their other duties.

To be realistic though, are police going to bother pulling someone up in a quiet, isolated rural area, with relatively few people around, unless there is a traffic offense involved? I don't think we're at that point, yet.
 
Renato, I mentioned 1.5m, not 1.5 km. Apart from that, there's a risk/benefit trade off of allowing people into Doctor's waiting rooms and emergency units. The risk is catching COVID-19 virus, the benefit, preventing illness and loss of life due to any one of many other causes. The COVID-risk can be managed through distancing, throughput of people and checking for signs of COVID infection (temperature, symptoms etc) before admission. Also they might be sitting 1.5m apart for 30mins or maybe a bit longer, but very few (at least in doctors waiting rooms) for 4hrs+.

Someone sitting on a beach for 4 hrs, sure there are benefits, but they are not short term health benefits (or essential things like getting food to sustain oneself), they are mainly social. But the risk of being close proximity to others for 4 hours increases the infection risk. Fairly obvious I would have thought?


The only risk of lying on a beach reading a book and some guy comes along and sits 1.5meters from me - is the risk of assault from me on him, if he doesn't move the hell further away. Unfortunately, I've never had the experience of female strangers coming along and doing that to me.

Strangers don't sit on top of one another, and 1.5 meters would be considered too close in any beach situation.

You state,
" But the risk of being close proximity to others for 4 hours increases the infection risk"
That that risk is greater than the risk incurred from passing dozens of people in a supermarket, or sitting next to people in a waiting room or in train, I suspect is far from obvious.
Cheers,
Renato
 
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I have to go eat now - and won't get around to answering responses for a fair while (I have to watch Hannity and Tucker after dinner for the latest updates).

Meanwhile, I've noticed not a single response to my Fox News Update about the randomised controlled trial in China and the good results they got with hydroxychloroquine.

Well, here is their paper with the results.

Is anybody interested? Or optimistic?
Or suspicious of anything from mainland China?
Regards,
Renato
 
To be realistic though, are police going to bother pulling someone up in a quiet, isolated rural area, with relatively few people around, unless there is a traffic offense involved? I don't think we're at that point, yet.

Yes what everyone is relying on is common sense and a sense of community for everyone to do the right thing. If everyone chips in, we as a community win.

The police should not be needed to enforce Stay at home, minimising travel, gathering etc but here we are with some wanting to not do what is right.

If everyone did what was right there would also be no problem with things like toilet paper.



It just is the anti-vaxxer story just being repeated where the few want to take advantage of the many.


Or as it seems increasingly likely one person is getting their jollies by trolling as I simply doubt that anyone could be consistently be so wrong so often. Particularly with all the deliberate misquoting etc.
 
Meanwhile, I've noticed not a single response to my Fox News Update about the randomised controlled trial in China and the good results they got with hydroxychloroquine.

Works both ways. I’m still waiting for your answer about your trivialising the issues of Lupus, displaying no knowledge whatsoever as to what Lupus actually is. I’m happier now though, my script has arrived. I have another 6 weeks of treatment.
 
For those who don't know Russian:-
The Russians have published the actual protocol they use and for now their mortality rate is under 0.4 (better than Korea). They treat the later stage of the disease as an autoimmune condition, the patient immediately gets an injection of anti-histamine which is usually used for anaphylaxis and the ventilator cases also get a combined treatment of the antimalarial drug with 2nd line cephalosporin antibiotics to compensate for the immunosuppression effects of the drug.

French: hydroxychloroquine (plaquenil) but together with Azothyioprine. Take it and go back to work in say 6 days. Use it on cruise ships and backpackers - say. There are qualifications - such as those who have other health conditions. We do not know if this grants immunity, but we do know the 1/2 life for quinies is about 50 days.

The take home here is both use a coughtail, and there is a protocol. I expect doctors worldwide with the same information to come to the same conclusions. In Australia, I think they are NOT giving t out like candy because of administrators and the usual BS about no antibiotics for viral infections. Or we do not trust the Chinese. My belief this will be rolled our en-mass when and if we have enough stock so as not to cause a panic, or prove that the well-to-doers get served first.

We can also get Australians stranded back home - those that can take the tablets. I suspect NSW or each state love the idea of closed borders to higher risks costing them $$$$. The graveyards are full of people the world could not do without. It follows that the economy is set to become a graveyard.
 
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As stated previously, driving that far out of town is potentially going to take police resources away to question you instead of their other duties. So even driving out of town will have indirect implications for the fight against the virus.
Well in the past when working at Launceston I have driven out to a place just south of Evandale which is a good place to look at the Southern lights if they appear.Usual time is around midnight and it is on a no through road.Have never seen anyone go by.
if a police car did go by it surely would be due to a call out and if they did stop it would only be on the way back from a job.it wouldn't interupt anything.
I will not be doing so in the next 2 weeks as I am under strict quarantine rules-unit,work and once a week to get food.
 
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Good on you. Tassie, NT have subpar medical options. A deal was struck with private hospitals - all of em apparently. But some health funds have blacklisted certain hospitals for rotten outcomes and re-infections/reworks. These should have been left to close. Medical researchers will not name and shame these outliers.
 
's ok.. we have it done and dusted.
A horse wormer will do the trick…I probably have a couple down at the stable but better hop out in the morning and stock up before the horse stores are all sold out.

 
I have to go eat now - and won't get around to answering responses for a fair while (I have to watch Hannity and Tucker after dinner for the latest updates).

Meanwhile, I've noticed not a single response to my Fox News Update about the randomised controlled trial in China and the good results they got with hydroxychloroquine.

Well, here is their paper with the results.

Is anybody interested? Or optimistic?
Or suspicious of anything from mainland China?
Regards,
Renato
As the report itself says 'evidence regarding its effects in patients is limited' and 'should not be used to guide clinical practice'. So essentially the report says this might work, or it might not. The medical view on this appears to be that on its own this study is unconvincing.
 
I have to go eat now - and won't get around to answering responses for a fair while (I have to watch Hannity and Tucker after dinner for the latest updates).

Meanwhile, I've noticed not a single response to my Fox News Update about the randomised controlled trial in China and the good results they got with hydroxychloroquine.

Well, here is their paper with the results.

Is anybody interested? Or optimistic?
Or suspicious of anything from mainland China?
Regards,
Renato
The conclusion of the authors is that more widespread trials are needed.
None of the patients in the trial were defined as critical.
 
And a totally different trial underway in the USA to see if the need for ventilation can be reduced.
Given that Nebulizers are a definite AGP I can’t see this being something that’s actually clinically practical.
Definitely there is a move to reduce early intubation, and that’s a good thing.
Proning of awake patients etc, all simple things that seem to make sense.
 
Chinese made COVID products faulty / defective. A few articles today, that highlight ignorance about self certification, and making a product that matches a statement that it conforms to the manufacture process.
That is to say there is a difference between quality control and quality assurance, but the purchasing area has gone dumb - it seems.
In the circumstances - not quite right or defective buying decisions can be salvaged. Not quite masks can be used by less critical areas, and tests that do not 'develop' can be modified, like 30 minutes instead of 10, and more narrow temperature range. Be agile - adapt! Understand the defect and limitations. Now is not the time to be goldplating the gold standard - as TGA leans towards the impossible.

But great news about Ivermectin (spoiler only 1 in 10 invitro leads tend to be ok in live humans), and that drug has newer more moden variants. There may be a run on dog deworming tablets and sheep dips.
 
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