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Hydroxychloroquine - What Goes On?

Renato1

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Forget Fox news, this is a far better source of reliable news on the topic.

I haven’t had time to fully digest this yet, but it’s not looking good.

Looks good to me. The chart says the same thing reported on Fox News - a stack of his patients got better very quickly. Looks like a lot of them didn't want to hang around in hospital to keep being tested after they showed negative, and left the study.
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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I'm not saying you should sit around day after day watching CNN, did I say that anywhere? Relying on any media outlet whether they be Fox News, CNN, Breitbart, the ABC, Channel 9, BBC, or Al Jazeera, as a single source of news is not a good idea. Maybe the best thing is to watch some old episodes of Rob Sitch's Frontline, a (cynical) insight into how the media crafts current affairs stories.

Rupert Murdoch makes a lot of money out of people by either making them outraged (as do the owners of the "lefty" media), or making them feel warm and fuzzy by re-inforcing peoples already held views. The views that Fox News put out are carefully crafted as a money making tool for Rupert's empire (either by increasing the amount of time people watch them, or to create a groundswell of support for policies that further his business's interests). But so does the lefty media as well.

Interesting article: Lost someone to Fox News? Science says they may be addicted to anger - The Boston Globe It calls out FoxNews, but could equally apply to a lot of the anti-Trump media right now too.
The news media only exists so long as it is credible and they don't ruin their reputations by reporting as news what is in fact activist opinion. Say what you like, Fox News does present facts in among their opinion pieces, and often bring people on the other side of the political spectrum to debate them. As a result of Fox's crediblity, it is now crushing its two rivals in the ratings.

Go back to late January and early February in relation to the virus. There you have MSNBC and CNN parroting the Democrat/globalist/intersectional politics line that Trump's travel ban on China was racist and stigmatising. On the other side, there was Hannity praising the President and the positive things he was doing (Task force/travel ban). And then there was the Administration's harshest and most scathing critic - none other than Tucker Carlson, an hour before Hannity, night after night pointing out flaws in the policy (e.g no ban on Italy) and flaws in implementing the policy, continually highlighting total slackness at ports and airports.

The facts were only really reported at Fox News, why waste my time with the other stations - even Channel 7 News down here is blatantly anti-Trump on pretty near every story.

As for Rupert Murdoch, I often have the misfortune of having to watch Skynews UK when overseas (the lesser evil of watching CNN). This anti-Brexit anti-conservative station kept interviewing experts explaining how Britain was going to run out of food and essential medicines if it ever left the EU. Hardly a conservative station.
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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Renato,
Like many here I like a good debate.
I have to say though that I have no idea what about half of that last post means.
Also I have asked you twice (or more), without answer, to explain what should be done instead of how it’s now being rolled out.
I have twice in previous comments that I believed at Stage 2, that the minority of individuals who broke the mandated rule of four square meter space between people at the beach should have been fined. And not to punish the rest of the general population which had been complying with that mandated rule.
Instead, the reverse happened - nothing happened to the transgressors, and the compliers got punished (and they miss out on all the health benefits of glorious disinfecting sunlight).
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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Of course, Trump is always right. Sorry to disagree with Fox News. It’s dangerous to one’s health.

“On January 22, when asked if we should be worried about the virus in China, Trump said: “No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

On January 30: “We have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment – five. And those people are all recuperating successfully.”

February 10: “Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

February 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day – it’s like a miracle – it will disappear.”
March 10: “It will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”

So pleased we live in Australia.
Post automatically merged:


Cruel! Mother’s Cure All! :)
January 28 - Trump sets up Coronavirus Task force - widely criticized by media and Democrats for not being Diverse enough.
January 31 - Trump bans people from China - widely criticized by media and Democrats and WHO for being racist, xenophobic and stigmatizing.
March 11 - Trump bans people from Europe - again widely criticised.

Of course, all of Trump's predictions could have come true - but he had a problem that he hadn't counted on, namely all these Democrat idiots - in the first three minutes of the clip - in California and New York telling everyone that all was fine, to ignore the coronavirus, to not be racist, and to go to festivals.


Oddly, he forgets to mention the Mardi Gras of Feb 16 in that other coronavirus hotspot of New Orleans, where the Democrat Mayor now blames Trump for not having warned her about the virus.
Regards,
Renato
 
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Of course, all of Trump's predictions could have come true - but he had a problem that he hadn't counted on, namely all these Democrat idiots - towards the end of the clip - in California and New York telling everyone that all was fine, to ignore the coronavirus, to not be racist, and to go to festivals.
Oh you mean like don't close the beaches when people gathering like they were at a festival, don't stay at home when you can still drive unnecessary....and hey why not even drive out to the country to stargaze.

Amazing how in one thread that crowd in Chinatown is horrifying, but in another that a crowd on Bondi Beach is not only not horrifying but should have been allowed to keep happening. Evidently the lack of clothing and the presence of more sunlight is the magical difference!

Yes I fully agree to not practice social distancing, to not stay at home where at all possible is stark raving mad batshit crazy. But yet that is what some are arguing for....go figure eh.



Republican and Democrat? The virus does not discriminate. Poor decisions are being made by both Republicans and Democrats.

Just look at the Republican Governor in Florida, Ron de Santis who is resisting Stay at home policies. With the % of very old people in Florida his actions have disaster written all over them.

Of those states, however, Florida is the only one that is not under a statewide “stay-at-home” order. DeSantis has urged people in Southeast Florida to remain at home and said this week he would issue a “safer at home” order codifying that advice.

On Tuesday, DeSantis said at a news conference that he had no plans to issue a statewide order because the White House had not told him to do so.
“I’m in contact” with the White House coronavirus task force, he said at a news conference, “and I’ve said, ‘Are you recommending this?’ The task force has not recommended that to me,” he added. “If any of those task force folks tell me that we should do X, Y or Z, of course, we’re going to consider it.”

 
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Vic

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Not sure what you mean - what chronic serious illness in the first group?

First group of 500 got infected, and after showing symptoms, were given the three drugs by their Doctor.
Compare it to a second group, who got infected and after showing symptoms didn't get those drugs by their Doctor.

Regards,
Renato
It is in your original post. Lupus is a serious autoimmune disease. Those are the cohort of people current treated with the drug. That is the population of people that you mentioned.
I fear fox news has fried you're ability to follow and remember a simple line of information.

the population of people currently taking the drug for Lupus and arthritis
As for the rest of the fox news defence, I was very pleased to see Fox news called out TRump's lies over covid-19. Looks like Rupert might have changed his opinion, get ready for the big switch over by the Fox News watchers.
 

dajop

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The problem with Trump, is not what he does, but people who think he can never do or say anything wrong, and people who think he can never say or do anything right. The reality is I think he's still a human being. He will make mistakes. His supporters need to realise that. He will get things right. His detractors need to realise that.

With Hydroxychlorquine, he's probably onto a good thing - a ray of hope to help people. Tick. Has he handled it perfectly? Hell no. Too fast too soon to loose. Cross. If anyone can't see either the ticks or crosses then you have been sucked in by someone's propaganda.
 

Vic

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The problem with Trump, is not what he does, but people who think he can never do or say anything wrong, and people who think he can never say or do anything right. The reality is I think he's still a human being. He will make mistakes. His supporters need to realise that. He will get things right. His detractors need to realise that.

With Hydroxychlorquine, he's probably onto a good thing - a ray of hope to help people. Tick. Has he handled it perfectly? Hell no. Too fast too soon to loose. Cross. If anyone can't see either the ticks or crosses then you have been sucked in by someone's propaganda.
This is a great way to see it. Trouble is I don't see many, if any, ticks. This drug is probably a good thing to investigate, as you say however, poorly handled. Too loose is the big problem - announcing it, giving false hope. He also blatantly make up rubbish everytime he speaks. He makes claims that are transparently false.

I'd love to hear of any other ticks for the man. I only see the big things in passing from Trump, I cannot think of a single "big" issue that deserves a tick. Trade with china x, unify the country x, objective, expert decision making x, upholding the rule of law/democracy x ...

Actually I've thought of one tick...
 
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More importantly, what does Fox News say? ;)
Your being too harsh. Comedy has been proven to have great curative powers ;)

That team does some of the best satire I have ever seen.. It is so good, you would almost believe that they believe what they say. Cudos to all their script writers.

Some of the actors do ham it up too much though.
 

Renato1

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Oh you mean like don't close the beaches when people gathering like they were at a festival, don't stay at home when you can still drive unnecessary....and hey why not even drive out to the country to stargaze.

Amazing how in one thread that crowd in Chinatown is horrifying, but in another that a crowd on Bondi Beach is not only not horrifying but should have been allowed to keep happening. Evidently the lack of clothing and the presence of more sunlight is the magical difference!

Yes I fully agree to not practice social distancing, to not stay at home where at all possible is stark raving mad batshit crazy. But yet that is what some are arguing for....go figure eh.



Republican and Democrat? The virus does not discriminate. Poor decisions are being made by both Republicans and Democrats.

Just look at the Republican Governor in Florida, Ron de Santis who is resisting Stay at home policies. With the % of very old people in Florida his actions have disaster written all over them.

Of those states, however, Florida is the only one that is not under a statewide “stay-at-home” order. DeSantis has urged people in Southeast Florida to remain at home and said this week he would issue a “safer at home” order codifying that advice.

On Tuesday, DeSantis said at a news conference that he had no plans to issue a statewide order because the White House had not told him to do so.
“I’m in contact” with the White House coronavirus task force, he said at a news conference, “and I’ve said, ‘Are you recommending this?’ The task force has not recommended that to me,” he added. “If any of those task force folks tell me that we should do X, Y or Z, of course, we’re going to consider it.”

Your position is that social distancing works in among groups of people visiting stores, visiting doctors, visiting pharmacies - but amazingly doesn't work when practiced on the beach or in a park. Oddly enough, on tonights' program Andrew Bolt seems to be as astounded as I am with this sort of strange thinking.
Cheers,
Renato
 

Renato1

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It is in your original post. Lupus is a serious autoimmune disease. Those are the cohort of people current treated with the drug. That is the population of people that you mentioned.
I fear fox news has fried you're ability to follow and remember a simple line of information.



As for the rest of the fox news defence, I was very pleased to see Fox news called out TRump's lies over covid-19. Looks like Rupert might have changed his opinion, get ready for the big switch over by the Fox News watchers.
It is in your original post. Lupus is a serious autoimmune disease. Those are the cohort of people current treated with the drug. That is the population of people that you mentioned.
I fear fox news has fried you're ability to follow and remember a simple line of information.



As for the rest of the fox news defence, I was very pleased to see Fox news called out TRump's lies over covid-19. Looks like Rupert might have changed his opinion, get ready for the big switch over by the Fox News watchers.
No it isn't in my original post at all.

Beats me why - when I said the first Doctor treated 500 patients, plainly referring to him treating Coronavirus with his mixture of drugs for Coronavirus - you have jumped to the conclusion that he was treating Lupus patients, He was not. He was treating coronavirus patients.

Exactly who's brain is fried?
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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Latest Fox News Update.

On Hannity, Dr Oz cited a randomised study conducted in China where a control group got no hydroxychloroquine and the other group was given hydroxychloroquine. In the control group without the drug, 55% did not get pneumonia, while in the other group 81% did not get pneumonia. Four died in the control group, none died in the hydroxychloroquine group.

I can see why some people think randomised trials are unethical in this circumstance, when numerous non randomised trials without a control group keep throwing up positive results.
Regards,
Renato
 
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Your position is that social distancing works in among groups of people visiting stores, visiting doctors, visiting pharmacies - but amazingly doesn't work when practiced on the beach or in a park. Oddly enough, on tonights' program Andrew Bolt seems to be as astounded as I am with this sort of strange thinking.
I'm not sure that's the argument. The argument is that we should all be at home. Period. However, because some things are essential - food, medical care - we have to go out. When we do, social distancing is the best option.
 

dajop

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Your position is that social distancing works in among groups of people visiting stores, visiting doctors, visiting pharmacies - but amazingly doesn't work when practiced on the beach or in a park. Oddly enough, on tonights' program Andrew Bolt seems to be as astounded as I am with this sort of strange thinking.
I think the consensus is that walking/exercising in parks and beaches is OK, but sitting down and staying there for hours (even with social distancing is not).

I presume the reason for this is that walking, exercising are transient activities, you walk past someone, even 1.5m+ away, you are in proximity to them for a couple of seconds. Likewise in doctors, supermarkets etc. The proximity is likely to be measured in seconds or minutes, not hours. Sitting down on a beach or park for half a day, you are in proximity to them for half a day, even if they are 1.5m away. We wouldn't need these restrictions if some young party goers at Bondi and St Kilda beaches (and some non party goers at various other beaches) didn't send a one fingered salute to the experts in the first place. But they did.

Effectively what the experts are suggesting by having such restrictions is physical isolation + time isolation. Not just one or the other, but both.

Edit: Note to mods: Can we move these particular posts? Just realised they are in the wrong thread, they should be in the beach thread, not the Hydroxychloroquine thread
 

Renato1

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I think the consensus is that walking/exercising in parks and beaches is OK, but sitting down and staying there for hours (even with social distancing is not).

I presume the reason for this is that walking, exercising are transient activities, you walk past someone, even 1.5m+ away, you are in proximity to them for a couple of seconds. Likewise in doctors, supermarkets etc. The proximity is likely to be measured in seconds or minutes, not hours. Sitting down on a beach or park for half a day, you are in proximity to them for half a day, even if they are 1.5m away. We wouldn't need these restrictions if some young party goers at Bondi and St Kilda beaches (and some non party goers at various other beaches) didn't send a one fingered salute to the experts in the first place. But they did.

Effectively what the experts are suggesting by having such restrictions is physical isolation + time isolation. Not just one or the other, but both.

Edit: Note to mods: Can we move these particular posts? Just realised they are in the wrong thread, they should be in the beach thread, not the Hydroxychloroquine thread
If that is the consensus - then the Government would be willfully negligent in not immediately closing down Doctor's waiting rooms and Hospital Emergency units - where people can sit around for hours in closer proximity and in enclosed spaces, relative to the open air and greater distances apart on the beach.

If the 1.5km you mention is actually correct - we need a mass evacution to rural Australia, and lots of tents.
Regards,
Renato
 

dajop

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If that is the consensus - then the Government would be willfully negligent in not immediately closing down Doctor's waiting rooms and Hospital Emergency units - where people can sit around for hours in closer proximity and in enclosed spaces, relative to the open air and greater distances apart on the beach.

If the 1.5km you mention is actually correct - we need a mass evacution to rural Australia, and lots of tents.
Regards,
Renato

Renato, I mentioned 1.5m, not 1.5 km. Apart from that, there's a risk/benefit trade off of allowing people into Doctor's waiting rooms and emergency units. The risk is catching COVID-19 virus, the benefit, preventing illness and loss of life due to any one of many other causes. The COVID-risk can be managed through distancing, throughput of people and checking for signs of COVID infection (temperature, symptoms etc) before admission. Also they might be sitting 1.5m apart for 30mins or maybe a bit longer, but very few (at least in doctors waiting rooms) for 4hrs+.

Someone sitting on a beach for 4 hrs, sure there are benefits, but they are not short term health benefits (or essential things like getting food to sustain oneself), they are mainly social. But the risk of being close proximity to others for 4 hours increases the infection risk. Fairly obvious I would have thought?
 

ethernet

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Ok, That French doctor has a newer paper out

Must be about right because the Russians do this

I would like to know what do Australian doctors prescribe on presentation?
The Ruby is a perfect example to try either a French or Russian approach - but no .au says go way - we don't care about 3rd world ship crew dying in transit. By contrast so-called boat refugees had it good.

Many take-away points in the French paper , but the contagion factor/shedding for those who go critical is red-lining. UK and Italy may like the coffin thing, but really a one way trip to the hospital incinerator stat is really called for. Yeah some minority religious groups will be unhappy about that.

Of note: Sarilumab, a rheumatoid arthritis treatment Regeneron developed with Sanofi, will soon be tested in the United States as a treatment for COVID-19.

Lastly I see sanitation corridors to evacuate people is talked about, and do not smoke for face handing is now mentioned.
 

dajop

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