Hydroxychloroquine - What Goes On?

Renato1

Established Member
Joined
May 1, 2015
Posts
1,730
I like watching Fox News.

Last Monday, on his radio show, Hannity interviewed a Doctor in a New York hotspot. Doctor said, he treated 350 patients of his and 150 in another area with hydroxychloroquine, antibiotics and zinc sulfate . At that time, he had had none going to hospital and none dead.

Next day Hannity had another New York doctor on who was also treating his patients with hydroxychloroquine - he was more coy about citing facts and figures, but said his results from using the anti-malaria drug on patients were positive.

On Saturday, Tucker Carlson had another doctor on describing the nightmare in New York hospitals. The Doctor then stated that he was using the anti-malaria drug as a prophylactic.

And New York Governor Cuomo was procuring 750,000 doses of the malaria drug chloroquine; 70,000 doses of its derivative, hydroxychloroquine; and 10,000 doses of the antibiotic Zithromax.

After President Trump expressed optimism over the results that French doctors had gotten with the drugs, and he had ordered the FDA to fast track testing of hydroxychloroquine, the Governors of Nevada and Michigan then passed orders preventing their doctors from using hydroxychloroquine on their patients,

These reports sort of raised a lot of questions to me like -
Would it not be a simple statistical test to see if, on contracting the virus, the population of people currently taking the drug for Lupus and arthritis have a significantly lower hospitalisation and death rate than the general population?

Would it not be a simple statistical test to compare the hundreds already treated with the drugs after contracting the virus, to an equivalent number of people who contracted the virus a few weeks prior who weren't treated?

What's up with those State Governors banning its use? and

Is the drug useless, or are New Yorkers and people here and in other countries now dying needlessly?

Then, on The Bolt Report tonight, he reported that New York health workers are now on the anti-malaria drug.
And that France and Italy now allows it to be used in some cases.
And that our health workers will be starting a trial in three weeks.

So, is this some kind of Right Wing Conspiracy in presenting the information above?
Or, does a partial cure fo rthe epidemic exist, but it doesn't work for the public ......but it is good for health workers? (Kind of reminds me of our Face Mask discussion)

Any thoughts?
Regards,
Renato
 
The ivermectin thing is fantastic news… no more of these hospitals and icu's..
Here is a vid of the new treatment in action
that’s a bit fancy, I’ll have to make do with my old hand pump one. I wonder how long it will take for my wife and kids to talk to me again after I drench them :oops:
 
I've been on plaquenil, hydroxychloroquine for a few years now. Currently hard to get my normal supplies because numpties have somehow obtained scripts and wiped out stocks. The TGA has now stopped that and hopefully pharmacies will replenish. I will be ok for a few weeks and am cutting back to a maintenance dose. I'll let you know one the other side. Interestingly in a Lupus FB group one Lupus person has tested positive just over a week ago. They are in Bankstown, I think it was, in NSW. They have been unwell, fever, but after 8 days feels like they are improving except that they have lost smell and taste. Jury is out.

Im with the others. Don't watch Fox News except for entertainment. If you must, listen to the medicos on this forum (there are many of them) and read the links they provide.
I lived over there for a few years and you soon realise that the big names of radio shock jock world are biased with payola from political parties and NRA etc. They are quite funny to listen too but are very dangerous like COVID-19
 
Well I am sure that remember back in the late 1960's, or thereabouts, arriving air passengers had to walk through a trough of disinfectant liquid. There was an outbreak of Foot & Mouth Disease in the U.K.
 
Works both ways. I’m still waiting for your answer about your trivialising the issues of Lupus, displaying no knowledge whatsoever as to what Lupus actually is. I’m happier now though, my script has arrived. I have another 6 weeks of treatment.
Beats me where I supposedly trivialised Lupus. Somewhere in my earlier responses I said it was fair enough keeping some hydroxychloroquine for Lupus sufferers (I have a friend with it) but that I was not overly concerned about the arthritis sufferers, who have other medications available.
Regards,
Renato
 
As the report itself says 'evidence regarding its effects in patients is limited' and 'should not be used to guide clinical practice'. So essentially the report says this might work, or it might not. The medical view on this appears to be that on its own this study is unconvincing.
The evidence is limited - but it was a positive outcome.
Had it been a negative outcome - either no effect of makes things worse - then that would have been treated as valuable information.
Regards,
Renato
 
The conclusion of the authors is that more widespread trials are needed.
None of the patients in the trial were defined as critical.
It is kind of hard to do a randomised trial of critical patients.

Their test of infected patients showed significantly quicker recovery times for those with hydroxychloroquine than those without.

Useful to know, if accurate, for further investigation, especially for forecasting times spent in treatment/hospital.
Regards,
Renato
 
Sponsored Post

Struggling to use your Frequent Flyer Points?

Frequent Flyer Concierge takes the hard work out of finding award availability and redeeming your frequent flyer or credit card points for flights.

Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, the Frequent Flyer Concierge team at Frequent Flyer Concierge will help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

Chinese made COVID products faulty / defective. A few articles today, that highlight ignorance about self certification, and making a product that matches a statement that it conforms to the manufacture process.
That is to say there is a difference between quality control and quality assurance, but the purchasing area has gone dumb - it seems.
In the circumstances - not quite right or defective buying decisions can be salvaged. Not quite masks can be used by less critical areas, and tests that do not 'develop' can be modified, like 30 minutes instead of 10, and more narrow temperature range. Be agile - adapt! Understand the defect and limitations. Now is not the time to be goldplating the gold standard - as TGA leans towards the impossible.

But great news about Ivermectin (spoiler only 1 in 10 invitro leads tend to be ok in live humans), and that drug has newer more moden variants. There may be a run on dog deworming tablets and sheep dips.
Interesting thanks.
It used to be fairly common practice 10 to 20 years ago of sending quality assurance auditors over to China to ensure they were making good products for contracts. I knew several such auditors doing that task for companies here in Australia. I don't know if that still happens. Might need to happen again - quickl, with lots of QA auditors.
Regards,
Renato
 
Beats me where I supposedly trivialised Lupus. Somewhere in my earlier responses I said it was fair enough keeping some hydroxychloroquine for Lupus sufferers (I have a friend with it) but that I was not overly concerned about the arthritis sufferers, who have other medications available.
Regards,
Renato

Let me refresh you.

Oh - I'd seen those things. The other part was their concern about the drugs being not being available for people with current genuine need of the drugs.
Which was fair enough for the tiny percentage of people with Lupus, but it seems to me that the larger group using the drugs for arthritis wouldn't really have priority over those facing death from the virus. and could be put on painkillers instead.

Sure, let's put these people who have been on Plaquenil successfully for years, on steroi_s for the duration and deal with that mess once Covid has long gone. And hope that in the meantime, they don't experience
  • liver disease, such as liver tumors and cysts.
  • kidney disease.
  • heart attack and stroke.
  • altered mood, irritability, increased aggression, depression or suicidal tendencies.
Painkillers? give me a break. Every lupus sufferer I know, and I know more than just 1, (😉) experiences arthritis. My niece in her late twenties, was using a walking stick at times. Until she started plaquenil. It wasn't until in her 30's that the markers for Lupus came through enough for the diagnosis of Lupus came through, before that, she was, as you flick off, merely an arthritis suffer. She did dreadfully on steroi_s. I was luckier, my markers turned to Lupus much quicker but I was older. Although maybe they were always there but not tested for.
 
Last edited:
Trump pushed a drug that could cause heart rhythm issues.....he has no idea.....oh it could stop your heart beating......
 
It used to be fairly common practice 10 to 20 years ago of sending quality assurance auditors over to China to ensure they were making good products for contracts.
Regards,
Renato
Still commonplace - I had 3 QC inspectors on their way to monitor industrial products just as the outbreak hit and all travel was stopped.
 
The Frequent Flyer Concierge team takes the hard work out of finding reward seat availability. Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, they'll help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Trump pushed a drug that could cause heart rhythm issues.....he has no idea.....oh it could stop your heart beating......
Sorry Cove but you are talking about chloroquine which has been used and approved for some 65 years without major incidence of side effects.The risk of a heart rhythm issue is about the same risk as severe myositis (which can be fatal ) with statins which are used by millions.

It is now being used in many Covid patients in trials around the world including Australia.
 
Sorry Cove but you are talking about chloroquine which has been used and approved for some 65 years without major incidence of side effects.The risk of a heart rhythm issue is about the same risk as severe myositis (which can be fatal ) with statins which are used by millions.

It is now being used in many Covid patients in trials around the world including Australia.
I was able to fill a script yesterday for plaquenil. Yay me. I can go back to proper dose now as I'd cut back just in case. Newest bottle is manufactured by Sanofi and states Plaquenil. Old bottle was generics, Apo-hydroxychloroquine produced by Apotek so something has changed.

Does Trump have shares in Sanofi as reported by NY Times?
 
Those of us who work in this field know that nothing is ever as simple as it looks.

Not all studies are positive. Small study from Paris (Molina et al) - no effect on viral clearance. 80% still RNA positive on day 5-6.
This is stark contrast from the Marseille study (Gautret et al) suggested 70% RNA "cured" within 6 days.

So the answer is not clear, and larger study results are needed before we know if hydrocychloroquine is truely effective.
 

Attachments

  • 1-s2.0-S0399077X20300858-main.pdf
    253.9 KB · Views: 3
Those of us who work in this field know that nothing is ever as simple as it looks.

Not all studies are positive. Small study from Paris (Molina et al) - no effect on viral clearance. 80% still RNA positive on day 5-6.
This is stark contrast from the Marseille study (Gautret et al) suggested 70% RNA "cured" within 6 days.

So the answer is not clear, and larger study results are needed before we know if hydrocychloroquine is truely effective.
I wonder if the patients, who did seem to have significant co morbidities, don't reflect the pattern for patients who are desperately ill with Covid but no other health issues.
 
Those of us who work in this field know that nothing is ever as simple as it looks.

I don't work in the field, but as a "layperson" , the simplistic "this works" or "that works" type discussion does seem to misrepresent the situation. One thing that immediately comes to mind is that the drug itself is just one part of the equation. The dosage is the other critical part.

What dosage does it work at? What dosage does it cause harm? It's all very well saying it works - but how much is needed, at what frequency? It's also very well saying there is a history of safe use, with very low chance of side effects - but at what dosage is that history of use (as we know with any substance, it's the dose that makes the poison).? How does the efficacious dose stack up against the "safe" dose?
 
I don't work in the field, but as a "layperson" , the simplistic "this works" or "that works" type discussion does seem to misrepresent the situation. One thing that immediately comes to mind is that the drug itself is just one part of the equation. The dosage is the other critical part.

What dosage does it work at? What dosage does it cause harm? It's all very well saying it works - but how much is needed, at what frequency? It's also very well saying there is a history of safe use, with very low chance of side effects - but at what dosage is that history of use (as we know with any substance, it's the dose that makes the poison).? How does the efficacious dose stack up against the "safe" dose?

I'm on 2x200 mg once a day but had to start at 1x200mg a day then 1 200mg in the am and then 1 in the pm due to potential side effects. I had none and so progressed to full dose once a day within a couple of weeks.

I did read in one of the papers that with Covid the initial dose was 600 mg BID (twice a day) x 2 doses (presumably 2 doses means 2 days?) then 200 mg TID (three times a day). For five days.
 

Enhance your AFF viewing experience!!

From just $6 we'll remove all advertisements so that you can enjoy a cleaner and uninterupted viewing experience.

And you'll be supporting us so that we can continue to provide this valuable resource :)


Sample AFF with no advertisements? More..
Back
Top