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Hydroxychloroquine - What Goes On?

Renato1

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I like watching Fox News.

Last Monday, on his radio show, Hannity interviewed a Doctor in a New York hotspot. Doctor said, he treated 350 patients of his and 150 in another area with hydroxychloroquine, antibiotics and zinc sulfate . At that time, he had had none going to hospital and none dead.

Next day Hannity had another New York doctor on who was also treating his patients with hydroxychloroquine - he was more coy about citing facts and figures, but said his results from using the anti-malaria drug on patients were positive.

On Saturday, Tucker Carlson had another doctor on describing the nightmare in New York hospitals. The Doctor then stated that he was using the anti-malaria drug as a prophylactic.

And New York Governor Cuomo was procuring 750,000 doses of the malaria drug chloroquine; 70,000 doses of its derivative, hydroxychloroquine; and 10,000 doses of the antibiotic Zithromax.

After President Trump expressed optimism over the results that French doctors had gotten with the drugs, and he had ordered the FDA to fast track testing of hydroxychloroquine, the Governors of Nevada and Michigan then passed orders preventing their doctors from using hydroxychloroquine on their patients,

These reports sort of raised a lot of questions to me like -
Would it not be a simple statistical test to see if, on contracting the virus, the population of people currently taking the drug for Lupus and arthritis have a significantly lower hospitalisation and death rate than the general population?

Would it not be a simple statistical test to compare the hundreds already treated with the drugs after contracting the virus, to an equivalent number of people who contracted the virus a few weeks prior who weren't treated?

What's up with those State Governors banning its use? and

Is the drug useless, or are New Yorkers and people here and in other countries now dying needlessly?

Then, on The Bolt Report tonight, he reported that New York health workers are now on the anti-malaria drug.
And that France and Italy now allows it to be used in some cases.
And that our health workers will be starting a trial in three weeks.

So, is this some kind of Right Wing Conspiracy in presenting the information above?
Or, does a partial cure fo rthe epidemic exist, but it doesn't work for the public ......but it is good for health workers? (Kind of reminds me of our Face Mask discussion)

Any thoughts?
Regards,
Renato
 

amaroo

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Whatever thing works, or appears to work, or is just a total stab in the dark - should be given to people who are on the frontline saving lives.

The rest of us should just stay at home and not watch to much of Fox or for that matter the ABC... try flicking the channel and get a range of views.

A bird needs a left wing and a right wing, it’s pretty much useless with only one!
 
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Pushka

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I've been on plaquenil, hydroxychloroquine for a few years now. Currently hard to get my normal supplies because numpties have somehow obtained scripts and wiped out stocks. The TGA has now stopped that and hopefully pharmacies will replenish. I will be ok for a few weeks and am cutting back to a maintenance dose. I'll let you know one the other side. Interestingly in a Lupus FB group one Lupus person has tested positive just over a week ago. They are in Bankstown, I think it was, in NSW. They have been unwell, fever, but after 8 days feels like they are improving except that they have lost smell and taste. Jury is out.

Im with the others. Don't watch Fox News except for entertainment. If you must, listen to the medicos on this forum (there are many of them) and read the links they provide.
 
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...the Governors of Nevada and Michigan then passed orders preventing their doctors from using hydroxychloroquine on their patients,

What's up with those State Governors banning its use? and
On reading your post I went to google and typed in 'Governors of Nevada and Michigan ban hydroxychoroquine'. Two seconds.

Here's the answer - the bold bits are important:

The Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs issued an order Wednesday warning physicians against writing prescriptions “without a legitimate medical purpose” and instructing pharmacists to evaluate the “legitimacy” of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine prescriptions.​
The department cited concerns about stockpiling amid “multiple allegations” of doctors writing prescriptions for family and friends, adding that reports of such conduct “may be further investigated for administrative action” and that other health professionals are required to report “inappropriate prescribing practices.”​

You're watching Fox and other right-leaning programs for your information - ie - pro-Republican.

A google search for 'Governor of Nevada' and 'Governor of Michigan' and guess what... they're both Democrats.

Is it a right-wing conspiracy? I dunno if you'd call it that. But it certainly sounds like politics.
 

Pushka

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After President Trump expressed optimism over the results that French doctors had gotten with the drugs, and he had ordered the FDA to fast track testing of hydroxychloroquine, the Governors of Nevada and Michigan then passed orders preventing their doctors from using hydroxychloroquine on their patients
Thanks to @MEL_Traveller post I realised I did not address your concerns re political interference.

Australia has done exactly the same thing here - banned any GP from prescribing the drug to anyone who has not been on this treatment before and which was prescribed by a specialist initially. This is, as I mentioned earlier, because people were watching Fox News and even dentists were prescribing this drug to random people and now the drug is in short supply for people who have been taking it for years to prevent organ damage from auto immune illnesses.

The drug is imported to Australia. It isn't produced here.

There is no political subterfuge here at all. It's a genuine attempt to stop people pillaging an "unknown for Covid drug" from those who actually need it.

What can I say to people who likely take too much for too long as prophylaxis? Better get your blood tested and have an eye check. Oh, and don't take it with food (which for those in the know is nasty of me but I'm a bit cross).
 
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There are many examples of promising drugs whose initial appeal proved disappointing. An example is torcetrapib.This drug appeared to cure coronary artery disease in rabbits who were fed a high cholesterol diet. It raised HDL ("good") cholesterol so in theory there was a reason why it should have been effective in humans. Pfizer (one of those nasty multinational drug companies) spent several hundred millions of US dollars in research and development, only to find that in human trials it provoked an unexpected side effect - hypertension. The drug never made it to market. This took several years of careful scientific research to establish. Several other companies have tested similar compounds and none work, unfortunately.
Another example is Vioxx. This drug was the first of the selective Cox-2 inhibitors (non steroidal anti inflammatory drugs). I remember Michael Wooldridge (the then federal minister for health) telling the House of Representatives that the drug was so promising that it was being fast tracked onto the PBS. It was marketed as the first anti-inflammatory to have no side effects. Fast forward several years to when its manufacturer had to pay out 830 million USD to settle a class action after the drug was linked to heart attacks.
The bottom line is that jumping in early to distribute a purported cure may end up in even more tears than we have at present.

Thalidomide is another example.
 
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Good points, but something like chloroquine (or now hydroxychoroquine), which have been around for like ever, have got to be a reasonable option if you have an 80 year old on a ventilator and about to die. Yes there are side effects of those drugs, but the alternative could be worse.
 

jeza

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When all this is over I hope the relevant authority here goes back & if possible sanctions those who wrote out these prescriptions that were "without a legitimate medical purpose"

Disgusting behavior by so called Medical Professionals :mad:
 

Basaka

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Long story short, we don't know how effective it really is. The "studies" published so far is also very poor quality - I'd suggest reading Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin versus COVID-19: Grift, conspiracy theories, and another bad study by Didier Raoult and following a few links for a science-based approach to this situation. I'm personally not betting on hydroxycholoroquine to be an effective treatment.

Note that the doctor interviewed said he has treated the patients but have produced basically no supporting data. Show us the study and methodology.

There are definitely a lot of things going on but we will not see a potential treatment (repurposed from treatments that have been around enough to demonstrate general safety) until later this year and definitely no vaccines for a year at least.
 

moa999

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Would it not be a simple statistical test to compare the hundreds already treated with the drugs after contracting the virus, to an equivalent number of people who contracted the virus a few weeks prior who weren't treated?
Not exactly a controlled test
The spread of the virus is random and testing is random as well (not everyone being tested)
 

Vic

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How do you get a control group among healthy people to match people who have the other conditions (lupus or whatever) for which they're taking this drug?

How do you know the general population rates when we don't even know the exact number of people infected? Your statistical studies might give useful information, in a few years once we have all the data.

Edit: I don't watch fox, can we do a statistical review of correlation between watching fox news and being able to critically evaluate proposed health studies?
 

tgh

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One reason for the proliferation of alternate medicine is that conventional medicine is strapped tightly into a straight jacket of its own making.
Do no harm was, and conceptually, is a prime driver of medicine.. but it now has a smelly overlay of professional indemnity consideration
To what degree medicine is controlled by insurers is moot , but there are now a whole raft of peripheral considerations that arguably challenge treatment outcomes.
The debacle over masks and ppe showed how a simple process can fail and how a process of blame shifting is instituted to protect the guilty.
 
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Long story short, we don't know how effective it really is. The "studies" published so far is also very poor quality - I'd suggest reading Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin versus COVID-19: Grift, conspiracy theories, and another bad study by Didier Raoult and following a few links for a science-based approach to this situation. I'm personally not betting on hydroxycholoroquine to be an effective treatment.

Note that the doctor interviewed said he has treated the patients but have produced basically no supporting data. Show us the study and methodology.

There are definitely a lot of things going on but we will not see a potential treatment (repurposed from treatments that have been around enough to demonstrate general safety) until later this year and definitely no vaccines for a year at least.

This study is based on limited clinical trials. But I think we need to keep the end market in mind here - the vulnerable elderly who are being warned we may get to a stage where they will be refused medical care for some deemed more worthy. Faced with that, I'm going to suggest trying a drug, short term, that could be the difference between life and death.

Although I suppose they have tried these drugs in Spain and Italy?
 

Basaka

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This study is based on limited clinical trials. But I think we need to keep the end market in mind here - the vulnerable elderly who are being warned we may get to a stage where they will be refused medical care for some deemed more worthy. Faced with that, I'm going to suggest trying a drug, short term, that could be the difference between life and death.

Although I suppose they have tried these drugs in Spain and Italy?
Not if the drugs make them have a heart attack instead of treating the infection which is a possibility given the known risk profile of the drug.

Also the CDC "research" they mention in the article is based on cell trials which basically... tells us nothing about how it is going to work in humans (there is a reason people have to spend years trialing new drugs in people). If I had a dollar for each time someone announces a cure based on cell trials I will have... more failed drug candidates.

According to research by the US CDC, chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS coronavirus, both prophylactically and therapeutically. SARS coronavirus has significant similarities to COVID-19. Specifically, the CDC research was completed in primate cells using chloroquine’s well known function of elevating endosomal pH.
 

dajop

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Am I missing something here (as is entirely likely)? Until I started reading the sort of stuff mentioned upthread, most of what I recall reading and hearing about Chloroquine was its potential for use as treatment, in combination with other drug treatments. I am sure I've read various references that by itself it is likely not an effective treatment, based on studies done in China, but it might be effective as part of an overall treatment alongside other pharmaceuticals (which is actually what DJT indicated initially as well). I guess the idea of combination of different drugs is to complex for simple media stories ....
 
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