Another Dubai fiasco [PAX deported after trying to enter with expired passport]

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
It does paint the UAE in a certain light (fairly or unfairly) because whatever the details of the story, the detail that has generated the most interest was the BAC of 0.04. All it takes is for one immigration officer to raise a suspicion of intoxication and the passenger goes into the slammer.

Even though our BAC limit is 0.05, the common message by RBT is “don’t drink and drive”.

Is EK and EY practically “don’t drink and fly” airlines?.
<snip>

I think its been established as best we are going to know that the incident wasn't about drink, it was about the passport/visa/ filming immigration officers. Such will get you in trouble in just about any country. So I don't see this as a 'gulf' issue, except they might apply their rules stricter than others.

EK and EY don't appear to have alcohol drinking policies much different from any other airline, except maybe for Ramadan. I got a drink on Oman airlines during Ramadan and its a fairly 'strict' Gulf airline.

This just reinforces to many to be extra careful on flights to the Gulf. Might even save EK a few $$ on their alcohol bill.<snip>

Sure, but getting intoxicated on just about any airline/international arrival is asking for trouble. I'd be equally worried about the type of medications I might take into UAE (including transiting), than if I'd had a couple - or more - drinks on the flight.

<snip>
On our QR flight to Doha last May the crew were extremely happy to ply me with alcohol and were even disappointed when I declined eventually. And this was during Ramadan.

On my QR flight into and out of Tehran, they served the booze over Iran until the top of descent going in, and as soon as the seat belt sign went off, coming out. I enjoyed having a shiraz while flying over Shiraz!

Moral: Fly QR and not EK!

Conclusion: if you think of the millions of pax that transit the Gulf every year, and how we know it is a 'strict' society with fairy rigid rules, then its amazing how few of these incidents we hear about.

 

[tgh]

it is a 'strict' society with fairy rigid rules

I beg to differ.. the rules exist as management tools and are applied to expats and guest workers.
The Sheiks can do literally anything with impunity.

So here I am very early Am flat strap in my rented jeep heading out into the desert with the speed warning barping away.
What hazards should I worry about ??
The sheik in his rangie doing at least 200k… at least he was flashing his lights to warn me to move out of the way (or else) and I should be grateful….

 

[Quickstatus]

I think its been established as best we are going to know that the incident wasn't about drink, it was about the passport/visa/ filming immigration officers. Such will get you in trouble in just about any country. So I don't see this as a 'gulf' issue, except they might apply their rules stricter than others.

Except that they took it further and additionally did a BAC and at the same time put the passenger into remand. The impression that it was related to BAC,and a BAC of 0.04 can put you into the smaller rightly or wrongly.

EK and EY don't appear to have alcohol drinking policies much different from any other airline, except maybe for Ramadan. I got a drink on Oman airlines during Ramadan and its a fairly 'strict' Gulf airline.

And this is where a potential issue might arise. While their practice of inflight alcohol service and consumption might seem “Western” there has always been a stricter interpretation of “intoxication” and consequences on arrival into (at least) the UAE.

This incident then creates uncertainty. Does the usual inflight alcohol consumption potentially cause a problem when other unforeseen immmigration or customs issue arise?. (Notwithstanding that prima facie the passenger in the incident did not do herself any favours and the visa/passport issue is enough of a reason for non entry)

On my QR flight into and out of Tehran, they served the booze over Iran until the top of descent going in, and as soon as the seat belt sign went off, coming out. I enjoyed having a shiraz while flying over Shiraz!

Moral: Fly QR and not EK!

“Like”

Conclusion: if you think of the millions of pax that transit the Gulf every year, and how we know it is a 'strict' society with fairy rigid rules, then its amazing how few of these incidents we hear about.

Yes that’s true and I believe that this passenger was intoxicated for the reasons I set out in my above posts though if an elephant is not in the room does not mean it does not exist.

Sometimes incidents such as these cause a rethink of what’s appropriate. Wont be a problem for me as I hardly drink alcohol. Last time I travelled in EK F I only had 1 glass of Dom.

 

[Quickstatus]

it is a 'strict' society with fairy rigid rules

I beg to differ.. the rules exist as management tools and are applied to expats and guest workers.
The Sheiks can do literally anything with impunity.

.

The vast majority of travellers hubbing in the Gulf are non Sheiks so these rules apply to them/us.

What’s the speed limit for non sheiks. If there was an accident between a sheik and non sheik who wins?

 

[Jacques Vert]

Came across this, courtesy of Loyalty Lobby:

Here’s Canada Government’s Consular handout about the alcohol law in the UAE:

Alcoholic Beverages Law in the UAE

Consular Information Handout

If you hold a residence permit for the UAE, you are required by law to hold a liquor licence in order to legally purchase alcoholic beverages from a liquor store or to consume alcohol at restaurants/hotels. The liquor licence must be issued by the competent authority of each emirate.

• The applicant must be non-Muslim. Note that persons born Muslims still cannot obtain a license even if they do not practise religion.
• The applicant’s salary must be more than AED3000 per month.
• The liquor license is only a buying permit and it gives no immunity against any alcohol related criminal offence.
• The license is valid in the issuing Emirate only.
• Non-residents cannot obtain an alcohol license but can consume alcohol in licensed hotels/restaurants.
• Consumers in the Emirate of Abu Dhabi should apply for the alcohol license online, through the Special License Office. All supporting documentations must be uploaded online as well: Digital photo, passport, residency visa, certificate of religion for certain cases (affidavit obtained from Embassy), no-objection letter from employer, and salary certificate. Some stores such as Spinneys can provide more information and guidance as well.
• Consumers in the Emirate of Dubai can apply for the license online or through MMI or African & Eastern store
• Alcohol is strictly prohibited in Sharjah.

It is a punishable offence under the provision of the Alcoholic Beverages Law to:

• Drive under the influence of alcohol.
• Purchase and consume alcohol without a liquor licence.
• Obtain alcoholic beverages from places other than those licensed by the government.
• Exceed the monetary limit imposed by the licence.
• Obtain alcoholic beverage if you are under the age of 21.

Anyone arrested for being drunk in a public place, and found guilty by a court of law, could receive a custodial sentence of not less than two months. They may also be fined up to AED5000. Any other offence or crime committed while intoxicated (e.g. physical and/or verbal abuse) will be heard separately.

 

[Quickstatus]

There seems to be no definition of “drunk”

 

[tgh]

What’s the speed limit for non sheiks. If there was an accident between a sheik and non sheik who wins?

Already answered that.. ya gotta keep an eye on the rear view mirror.
Sheiks are gods.. end of story

My experiences are old (circa 2005), and I would probably not have been booked for speeding anyway as I had some ..er.. anyway..
BUT.. The sheiks than could do whatever speed they they fancied then and heaven help anyone in the way….

 

[drron]

As I have written I do not like Dubai or some of their laws and practices.However in this case the subject of alcoohol was brought up by the woman concerned.It has not been confirmed from any other source.
But the other party involved says she tried to enter on her expired Swedish passport and got aggressive and rude when offered a way around as it would cost.Compounded by filming Immigration officials.I do not trust her version of events as obviously has left out very important facts.Fancy not checking your passports expiry date.
So in this case I side with the Dubai officials.

 

[JohnK]

Where did you get that one from?

On our QR flight to Doha last May the crew were extremely happy to ply me with alcohol and were even disappointed when I declined eventually. And this was during Ramadan.

That was my reference in the original post that @mannej quoted.

Leave everything aside. I'm not on this lady's side. She tried to enter the UAE on an expired passport whether intentional or unintentional and then produced a second but valid passport? What has her intoxication got to do with anything? What has how many she had to drink got to do with anything?

Me personally. I can't stand the place. I hate the rules they have in place. I hate the restrictions. I've never been but may pass through there some time and that worries me and the potential consequences of drinking alcohol and carrying hard narcotic drugs such as Xanax which I cannot live without by the way.

 

[Forg]

Where did you get that one from?

On our QR flight to Doha last May the crew were extremely happy to ply me with alcohol and were even disappointed when I declined eventually. And this was during Ramadan.

A friend of my wife’s lived in Doha for about 3 years, and spent 6 months or so of each of the next 5-ish years there.
While there’s still the overriding fear that you could be pulled-up by a policeperson & charged with whatever they felt like, and you’d be locked-up forever or worse, in general people seem pretty happy to forgive the whackyness of non-locals & sell stuff to non-locals that’d never be acceptable to sell to locals. Bottlos exist, for example, and they’d never sell to a local.

 

[Pushka]

That was my reference in the original post that @mannej quoted.

Leave everything aside. I'm not on this lady's side. She tried to enter the UAE on an expired passport whether intentional or unintentional and then produced a second but valid passport? What has her intoxication got to do with anything? What has how many she had to drink got to do with anything?

Me personally. I can't stand the place. I hate the rules they have in place. I hate the restrictions. I've never been but may pass through there some time and that worries me and the potential consequences of drinking alcohol and carrying hard narcotic drugs such as Xanax which I cannot live without by the way.

But have you actually been there to know how ‘the rules’ actually impact? Unless you are being mischievous in Dubai the there just isn’t an issue. And many of those drugs that are shrouded in ID checks here are available cheaply and OTC in the Middle East. If you’re worried about the drug you take just have a letter from your prescribing doctor. We’ve never been asked for any documentation for tablets we take. Always dress and act respectfully and you will be perfectly fine. If you are thinking of getting drunk outside the hotel then you are simply asking for trouble.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

This whoIe episode highlights again how media will simply publish anything without checking the facts with the other party first. The original story is so radically different from the truth it's not funny yet it's the initial version the public will remember - not what really happened.

I believe the UAE deported her because of how much negative publicity the story had already generated and would continue to generate had they detained her further in the UAE.

I can only imagine how many times EK F/A's are going to hear passengers ask "am I going to be arrested for this" when offered an in-flight alcoholic beverage.

Came across this, courtesy of Loyalty Lobby:

Here’s Canada Government’s Consular handout about the alcohol law in the UAE:

Alcoholic Beverages Law in the UAE

Consular Information Handout

If you hold a residence permit for the UAE, you are required by law to hold a liquor licence in order to legally purchase alcoholic beverages from a liquor store or to consume alcohol at restaurants/hotels. The liquor licence must be issued by the competent authority of each emirate.

• The applicant must be non-Muslim. Note that persons born Muslims still cannot obtain a license even if they do not practise religion.

I am quite convinced that the alcohol question was only raised when she presented the Iranian passport and therefore in the eyes of the UAE as someone of the Islamic faith who shouldn't be consuming any alcohol. If you're travelling on an Iranian passport you are an Iranian national not a Swedish one. It's also irrelevant that you reside in the UK.

 

[suze2000]

Fancy not checking your passports expiry date.

I don't know why she was travelling with an expired passport, but maybe that she just meant to show the Iranian one but pulled out the wrong one (possibly because she was drunk, who knows?).

 

[Pushka]

I don't know why she was travelling with an expired passport, but maybe that she just meant to show the Iranian one but pulled out the wrong one (possibly because she was drunk, who knows?).

I don’t think the young uns think about it as much as travelling oldies do. They are used to simply clicking a button to purchase an airfare to anywhere and off they go. Oldies remeber the days when the only way was to go through a TA and then you had to show your passport to check all was in order. No EVisas.

 

[harvyk]

I don’t think the young uns think about it as much as travelling oldies do. They are used to simply clicking a button to purchase an airfare to anywhere and off they go. Oldies remeber the days when the only way was to go through a TA and then you had to show your passport to check all was in order. No EVisas.

I remember the days before clicking a link and there is your ticket, that said my grandmother was a TA and I loved visited her at her shop (and these days hearing her stories about how she would actually arrange tickets back in the day).
I've often felt that these days travel is now much more easier to do, but also much more easier to get wrong.

 

[JohnK]

But have you actually been there to know how ‘the rules’ actually impact? Unless you are being mischievous in Dubai the there just isn’t an issue.

Why would I need to visit a place where I need to behave like an angel? I don't intentionally break rules but I like to have some freedom when I travel.

 

[mannej]

Why would I need to visit a place where I need to behave like an angel? I don't intentionally break rules but I like to have some freedom when I travel.

Whilst not advocating for Dubai, this isn't something limited to Dubai or the ME.

 

[RooFlyer]

Why would I need to visit a place where I need to behave like an angel? I don't intentionally break rules but I like to have some freedom when I travel.

Sorry, are you asking for some 'freedom' to break other country's laws when visiting? Wonder how you would feel if a visitor broke a law here, and, say injured you, family or property and the authorities here allowed them some 'freedom'.

"Respect" is an overused word, but it applies when you visit some-one else's house or another country. If you don't respect local laws and customs, then I find you don't get much respect - or tolerance - back.

 

[Renato1]

Why would I need to visit a place where I need to behave like an angel? I don't intentionally break rules but I like to have some freedom when I travel.

They have shocking discrimination over in Dubai - against men.

The trains have women and children-only carriages, where men get fined if they are in them.
And the ice cream vending window at McDonalds in Baniyas Square have two queues - a really long one for the males, and one for the females where the females get served first, no matter how long the other queue - so that often there is no one at that queue.

If you want an ice cream quick, you have to send you wife to buy it.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Pushka]

Why would I need to visit a place where I need to behave like an angel? I don't intentionally break rules but I like to have some freedom when I travel.

Well there’s freedom and then there is breaking the law. Getting drunk in public is breaking the law. Everywhere. If the authorities want to exercise it.