Denied seat recline on long haul

[MEL_Traveller]

Let me offer some empirical evidence...

The majority passengers don't really care about pax reclining into them. In fact they understand and put up with it. Why?
1/ Because the majority of pax recline + expect others to recline into them as well.
2/ CX fixed shells seat eliminated the problem of someone reclining into you. Management thought that idea would have been great. But guess what? Pax like to recline and those CX seats were not well received and are being eliminated.


Personally I don't recline fully as I don't find it the most comfortable + am also considerate for the person behind me. But I don't have a problem with someone reclining into me. But armrest hogs are another matter. :shock:

Reading this thread just wants to make me fly J with points more...

point 2 is a very good one! Fixed shell seats in economy were extremely unpopular and cost CX millions to put in and now replace.

 

[opusman]

The way i see it, the area from my seat to the seat in front is my space

Yes, that's true, and it's irrespective of whether the seat in front is reclined or not. Your space is from the front surface of your seat to the back surface of the seat in front, wherever both seats are positioned.

 

[JohnK]

for the same reason a 5' nothing person would recline their seat in business class or First!! To make themselves more comfortable!

I respect your knowledge and your input on AFF but that is simply not true and people should stop using that excuse as the reason to recline.

There is no proof that a 10-15% recline actually achieves anything other than mental satisfaction that you are better off. Either that or I am way way off the mark.

If you knew that 10-15% recline ruined the flight for the person behind you but gave you 10-15% more comfort then as a human being you would forgo the 10-15% more comfort. No? Then be selfish about it. And it is no different to the people who think they cannot sleep in economy.

Let me give you some precious advice. If you think that 10-15% recline is the difference between a good and a bad flight then you are depriving yourself of decent sleep because you think you cannot sleep in economy. There is no difference in quality of sleep between reclining back or slouching forward. Try it. You are missing out because it works perfectly for me. And no I was not born that way but I simply conditioned myself to adapt to the circumstances around me.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I respect your knowledge and your input on AFF but that is simply not true and people should stop using that excuse as the reason to recline.

There is no proof that a 10-15% recline actually achieves anything other than mental satisfaction that you are better off. Either that or I am way way off the mark.

If you knew that 10-15% recline ruined the flight for the person behind you but gave you 10-15% more comfort then as a human being you would forgo the 10-15% more comfort. No? Then be selfish about it. And it is no different to the people who think they cannot sleep in economy.

Let me give you some precious advice. If you think that 10-15% recline is the difference between a good and a bad flight then you are depriving yourself of decent sleep because you think you cannot sleep in economy. There is no difference in quality of sleep between reclining back or slouching forward. Try it. You are missing out because it works perfectly for me. And no I was not born that way but I simply conditioned myself to adapt to the circumstances around me.

as a personal example... being tall... if I sit upright in economy, my head is unsupported, even with an adjustable headrest extended to the limit, my head is not supported. this is extremely uncomfortable. by reclining, I can move down the seat enough so my head is supported. there is no other way.

with seats so close together, even someone shorter than me is going to benefit from the same.

as for the recline being more beneficial, this article is a good starting place:

BBC News - Sitting straight 'bad for backs'

 

[straitman]

I respect your knowledge and your input on AFF but that is simply not true and people should stop using that excuse as the reason to recline.

There is no proof that a 10-15% recline actually achieves anything other than mental satisfaction that you are better off. Either that or I am way way off the mark.

If you knew that 10-15% recline ruined the flight for the person behind you but gave you 10-15% more comfort then as a human being you would forgo the 10-15% more comfort. No? Then be selfish about it. And it is no different to the people who think they cannot sleep in economy.

Let me give you some precious advice. If you think that 10-15% recline is the difference between a good and a bad flight then you are depriving yourself of decent sleep because you think you cannot sleep in economy. There is no difference in quality of sleep between reclining back or slouching forward. Try it. You are missing out because it works perfectly for me. And no I was not born that way but I simply conditioned myself to adapt to the circumstances around me.

JohnK,

You are assuming that just because you find something comfortable then everyone will find it comfortable and we all know that is not so.

 

[opusman]

Yes just like the way JohnK doesn't like curry so therefore everyone must not like curry

 

[MarkD]

There is no difference in quality of sleep between reclining back or slouching forward.

Good way to get whacked by a recling seat, slouched forward



I'm too poor to own a signature

 

[The Rok]

I respect your knowledge and your input on AFF but that is simply not true and people should stop using that excuse as the reason to recline.

There is no proof that a 10-15% recline actually achieves anything other than mental satisfaction that you are better off. Either that or I am way way off the mark.

If you knew that 10-15% recline ruined the flight for the person behind you but gave you 10-15% more comfort then as a human being you would forgo the 10-15% more comfort. No? Then be selfish about it. And it is no different to the people who think they cannot sleep in economy.

Let me give you some precious advice. If you think that 10-15% recline is the difference between a good and a bad flight then you are depriving yourself of decent sleep because you think you cannot sleep in economy. There is no difference in quality of sleep between reclining back or slouching forward. Try it. You are missing out because it works perfectly for me. And no I was not born that way but I simply conditioned myself to adapt to the circumstances around me.

I can't sleep in economy, full stop.


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

 

[ALH]

Why would you make available a feature where ~50% of the people do no like it and will more than likely never use it?

1. Come on. You just made this figure up. ~50%. I don't think so!
2. Buy a seat in J, and leave the passengers in Y to have the most comfortable flight they can manage.
3. See somebody about your issue. Reclining is available for a reason.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

3. See somebody about your issue. Reclining is available for a reason.

the 'need to be in control' issue (particularly compounded in a situation where a passenger finds themselves unable to be in control because they lack the financial means to do so)

being able to give up control makes things so much less stressful. I have have no status on QF anymore, and have decided this is actually a benefit! No anxiety caused by:

• what good seats I may get / miss out on (I'm relegated to the back)
• no anticipation (and subsequent disappointment) that I might get an op-up
• no anticipation (and subsequent disappointment) that i might get a CSM greeting (or any crew member greeting)
• no worries I might miss out an express arrivals card
• no worries my priority baggage won't come out first (I don't get that benefit)
• no need to jump on at T-80 to secure a seat at the front (because my bag will be out last anyway so what's the rush?)
• no worries whether priority boarding is going to work (I just have to get there and line up like everyone else as early as possible!)
• no worrying that I might not make enough SCs to maintain status, or having to take an extra flight to do so
• no worrying that I might get a screaming infant in close proximity (bulkhead / bassinet seat are well out of my seat selection entitlements (and in fact on two recent flight there were indeed screaming infants - for a good couple of hours of the flight - but being 12 or so rows away it was nothing that a pair of ear plugs didn't completely fix!))
• no worrying about whether code-shares will honour additional baggage or other benefits (I get none)
• no need for priority phone lines because I can't complain if any of points 1-91 above fail!
• AND...arrive later at the airport - because there's nothing worth going out early for (like a drink in the lounge or food before i fly!)

All in all rather enjoyable!

 

[JohnK]

You are assuming that just because you find something comfortable then everyone will find it comfortable and we all know that is not so.

That is OK. I am not assuming. AFFers are not the only people that fly. I have had this conversation with others and most people do not care for recline and will only recline if reclined into.

And to be realistic for a change reclining 10-15% is an unnatural position for the body. But just like being able to sleep anytime, anywhere, you can convince yourself that 10-15% recline is actually beneficial as well.

3. See somebody about your issue. Reclining is available for a reason.

I do not have an issue. Sure, reclining bothers me but it does not happen to me that often because I go out of my way to try and get bulkhead and if I cannot get bulkhead then I will pay for exit row. I won't abuse the privilege of bulkhead/exit row though.

 

[serfty]

...

And to be realistic for a change reclining 10-15% is an unnatural position for the body. But just like being able to sleep anytime, anywhere, you can convince yourself that 10-15% recline is actually beneficial as well....

Are you sure?:

There's quite a bit of data on this, actually. The result: even modest reclines (e.g., 10-15 degrees) can dramatically improve comfort. One hypothesis is that the increased perception of "comfort" is due to decreased muscled activity in the back. A 15-20 degree recline can reduce muscle activity (muscles that stabilize the spine) by as much as 50%.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

For me it is quite simple:

* Airlines sell seats that recline: passengers buy seats in full knowledge of this (so the my-space argument that you "own" all the space in front of your seat has no weight)
* Whether you like this or not, this is the way it is.

Courtesy:
* Needs to go both ways
* Those that wish to recline can do so, but should do so slowly, and respect meal-times when it is polite to have no recline if the person behind wishes to eat
* Those that wish to not recline need to accept that others have the right to recline.

If one prefers to not recline, then that is fine. But the basis that seats are sold under does not mean that you have the right to insist that others cannot recline.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And to be realistic for a change reclining 10-15% is an unnatural position for the body. But just like being able to sleep anytime, anywhere, you can convince yourself that 10-15% recline is actually beneficial as well.

we have provided lots of evidence - but you seem unwilling to read it or take it into account. Additionally, you have to factor in the additional recline which is created by moving your bottom forward in the seat as the seat reclines. Assuming someone is sitting with their bottom firmly pressed into the back of the seat and only gaining 5-6' of recline is unrealistic. The seat itself may only go back that far, but once you slide forward yourself, there is a far greater angle than 10-15 degrees.

All the evidence suggests this is providing comfort, and ~100% of passengers doing this on a long haul flight would seem to back that up

However - please DO let me know when you are flying, cause I'll gladly be on the same plane as you and take the seat immediately behind you for extra space

 

[MelUser]

I can't believe this is thread is still going. Economy class seats recline on most airlines-end of story. If it is a real issue fly Cathay shell or fly j or f.

 

[ermen]

That is OK. I am not assuming. AFFers are not the only people that fly. I have had this conversation with others and most people do not care for recline and will only recline if reclined into.

See my earlier post. Your assertion is wrong and there is commercial evidence to refute this.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Actually - maybe JohnK has a point after all!! i was just reading a trip report on airliners.net and saw this picture! Note the guy sleeping without recline even in business!! (photo property of airliners member docpepz in a report posted 6 December)

 

[ozmille]

Actually - maybe JohnK has a point after all!! i was just reading a trip report on airliners.net and saw this picture! Note the guy sleeping without recline even in business!! (photo property of airliners member docpepz in a report posted 6 December)

I had that happen once on long haul J but that was because I just had too much to drink and passed out...

 

[Sprucegoose]

Vegetarians are always fussy people

 

[whereishome]

Unless I am sitting in J, nobody can recline in front of me. It's not that I'm a tool about it, it's just not physically possible given that when sitting in a normal QF/VA/JQ Y seat, my knees are squarely lodged against the seat in front of me. The person in front usually tries, then gives up.

On the few occasions they persist, I politely say "Excuse me, unfortunately I've got long legs and my knees are right up against the back of the seat. Please stop trying to crush my legs," and that usually sorts them out.

Only one time have the other pax gotten obstreperous and then I simply ignored them, pinged the CA and said "The gentleman in front insists on continually trying to recline his seat, which won't work because of the length of my legs. Can you either move them or move me? Or tell them to stop trying to crush my legs," and the CA told the person to stop being disruptive and pointed out that the flight was only BNE-SYD and surely they could remain upright for 45 minutes in the air.