Denied seat recline on long haul

[dajop]

I sort of copped that one on a recent VA short-haul international. The +1 and I had specifically chosen row 4 and it was both a very quiet flight and I knew I'd get a shadow anyway, so B was spare. But in fact all of row 3, A through to F, was completely empty. The fixed armrests made it a deal killer for the two of us lovebirds, but lo and behold here come some enterprising pax up from the rear, who grab some of row three and then recline all the spare seats into 'our' space!

Bad form. Not necessary.

Another scenario is DEFG seats, if DG only occupied, extremely bad form if EF were reclined. In fact recently had that scenario (EF empty in several rows), travelling SIN-SYD, as the person in front of me reclined immediately after the wheels were off the ground, and shortly after (ie seat belt signs off) I moved to E. If he'd reclined E I would have definitely asked him to put the seat up, as I did have my laptop out for part of the flight. He didn't thankfully.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I do make an exception for seat grabbers by taking my weight off the seat back and pushing in the recline button when they return to sit down. Very effective since as I don't recline they have quite a fall without the expected support. They mostly don't grab my seat again and learn to use their muscles. Oh and no I didn't do this to the person in my example above.

So effectively the seat grabber behind does your recline for you. They can hardly then turnaround & accuse you of reclining it. "Sorry (not) I can't get the seat back in upright position I think you must've broken it when you grabbed it too hard."

 

[ben7k]

What about the situation where the mechanism has broken and your seat won't stay upright when you wan't it to. Every time the flight attendant came past while preparing for take off I got told to put it upright. It went full recline upon rotation. All I was doing was sitting. Same again when preparing for landing. I swear she thought I was doing it on purpose. From memory it may have been a QF 734 or 767 can't recall which.

Now the question is how did the mechanism break and did it happen during a recliner rage incident?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What about the situation where the mechanism has broken and your seat won't stay upright when you wan't it to. Every time the flight attendant came past while preparing for take off I got told to put it upright. It went full recline upon rotation. All I was doing was sitting. Same again when preparing for landing. I swear she thought I was doing it on purpose. From memory it may have been a QF 734 or 767 can't recall which.

Now the question is how did the mechanism break and did it happen during a recliner rage incident?

no idea. But you should have been asked to be reseated (and the airline MUST reseat you by law as it is a safety issue in the event of an emergency).

 

[tuapekastar]

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my last post or 2, I'm withdrawing from this thread. An exception to answer the direct question.



It's weak because it is just about what is technically or physically possible was can be done. It ignores society. It ignores the social implications of doing what is physically possible. In fact it says that reclining is physically possible and therefore society doesn't matter. As such it is a statement of fact that fails to address the real issues involved.

No, the part you (selectively) quoted simply stated fact. It wasn't even an argument, hence it could not technically be weak. I briefly covered my approach and attitude to reclining in the subsequent text (which you didn't quote). And that is all I had to say on the topic at the time. "...therefore society doesn't matter"??? What on earth does this have to do with my statement? How anyone could draw that sort of inference is, frankly, beyond me.

 

[whatmeworry]

Just wondering out loud if the space in front of you is your space or is the space of the person behind?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Just wondering out loud if the space in front of you is your space or is the space of the person behind?

person's in front. Just as it is your space behind your seat

 

[Blinky]

Fascinating thread. At 174cm I'm a (relative) shortarse, but have never let it worry me. It's only since becoming a Y FF that I've been grateful for my stature.

My only long haul flights have been in Y+ (where you will find up thread that I got into a blue with someone who objected to me reclining) and my next will be in J. At my age, I just can't be bothered sitting at the back of the bus on long haul.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

too many argumentative PAX all packed in like sardines in a can

 

[11sjw]

then recline all the spare seats into 'our' space!

That's the crux of the argument. Many, including myself, would argue that if my seat can recline into it then it isn't "your" space.

However reclining the unoccupied seats I can understand on a long flight. Bit rude for a short flight though.

 

[JohnK]

The only ones I know of on public transport are the handles that exist for standing passengers to hold on to.

How are you getting to Hua Hin? Handles are on the back of seats on the coaches/buses in Thailand. I think Greece as well from memory.

I thought I have seen it on aircraft but you may be right and it may well have been Business class.

 

[JohnK]

Associated issue: what about if you and a companion get a spare seat between you. You end up in A & C. Would it be the height of rudeness and bad form to not only recline A & C but to lean over and recline B as well?

I think I was travelling on QF BNE-SIN on A330 one time somewhere in row 28/29G with vacant seat next to me. A lady (very loose term because she aint no lady) and her 3 children in row in front. Children were very young if I had to guess all under 10. So the children fall asleep and she then proceeds to recline all the seats after they had gone to sleep.

I would be surprised if recline was not in the mind for adults anyway. Kids this young do not need recline Stupid cow does not realise it makes no difference. I can't recline so I then had to sort of lay sideways between 2 seats to try and watch the IFE.

Yes it was my fault for thinking that human beings know how to behave in public....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

How are you getting to Hua Hin? Handles are on the back of seats on the coaches/buses in Thailand. I think Greece as well from memory.

I thought I have seen it on aircraft but you may be right and it may well have been Business class.

confirmed - there are no handles on the back of any economy aircraft seats, never have been. I thought you were joking by saying the seat back itself is a handle!

 

[JohnK]

confirmed - there are no handles on the back of any economy aircraft seats, never have been. I thought you were joking by saying the seat back itself is a handle!

I would not joke on such a serious thread and I would not intentionally try to inconvenience another passenger.

I have been known to slide down my seat and then roll out sideways when I have not been able to get out of my seat properly.

I draw the line on recliners though when a 71 year old cannot get out of window seat in QF premium economy with the person in front reclined. Luckliy she noticed what had happened and did not recline for the remainder of the flight SYD-LAX. And the other question is why would a 5' nothing female need to recline when seated in a premium economy bulkhead/exit row?

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

because they can

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And the other question is why would a 5' nothing female need to recline when seated in a premium economy bulkhead/exit row?

for the same reason a 5' nothing person would recline their seat in business class or First!! To make themselves more comfortable! The latest scientific thinking on ergonomics suggests the whole 'sitting upright' in office chairs is actually doing more harm than good. The recommendation is at least a 20 degree recline (practically this is pretty hard if you still need to use a keyboard). That was widely reported across all major news networks. The 20 degrees reduces pressure on the discs in the spine. Same would apply to sitting for long periods in an airline seat (which i also re-posted from FT above).

The same applies in premium economy. Recline is recline.

 

[Mal Ware]

Mal Ware - please let me know if you're ever on my flight.

I will take great pleasure in crushing your knees with my seatback - and yes I will put up with your kicking and punching and tray-table-thumping and whatever other petulant-child tactics you try.

It will annoy me for sure - but I will thoroughly enjoy my stretching out ability and increased leg room


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

Would love to reply with an honest answer, but I have effectively been gagged, last post for me in this thread.

 

[Trashy]

The way i see it, the area from my seat to the seat in front is my space. By the person in front reclining, this is encroaching on my space. I don't recline (not even long haul) and am a firm believer no one needs to recline on a flight less than 5 hours. I have booked the bulkhead for my upcoming SYD-JFK flight to eliminate someone reclining in to me/my space. I don't mind so much if it is a flight I want to sleep on (ie leave somewhere at night, arrive in the morning), but I generally try and stay awake if I will be arriving somewhere mid-late afternoon.

Much like smoking, I choose not to smoke and don't understand why I should be subjected to the poor health and lifestyle choices of others. If you choose to recline, you impact on my ability to have my tray table down, comfortably watch the AVOD, get out of my seat, etc, through no choice of my own. Yes, I could also recline, but I actually find that really uncomfortable, particularly if I am trying to do anything.

 

[11sjw]

The way i see it, the area from my seat to the seat in front is my space. By the person in front reclining, this is encroaching on my space. I don't recline (not even long haul) and am a firm believer no one needs to recline on a flight less than 5 hours. I have booked the bulkhead for my upcoming SYD-JFK flight to eliminate someone reclining in to me/my space. I don't mind so much if it is a flight I want to sleep on (ie leave somewhere at night, arrive in the morning), but I generally try and stay awake if I will be arriving somewhere mid-late afternoon.

Much like smoking, I choose not to smoke and don't understand why I should be subjected to the poor health and lifestyle choices of others. If you choose to recline, you impact on my ability to have my tray table down, comfortably watch the AVOD, get out of my seat, etc, through no choice of my own. Yes, I could also recline, but I actually find that really uncomfortable, particularly if I am trying to do anything.

My space is the space my seat, with me in it, occupies either in upright or recline positions.

I'm a firm believer that people should make themselves as comfortable as possible.

AVOD is quite easy to watch with a seat reclined, just pivot the screen.

I find sitting upright for 3-4 hours uncomfortable. For some science as to why see post #176 above.

 

[ermen]

Let me offer some empirical evidence...

The majority passengers don't really care about pax reclining into them. In fact they understand and put up with it. Why?
1/ Because the majority of pax recline + expect others to recline into them as well.
2/ CX fixed shells seat eliminated the problem of someone reclining into you. Management thought that idea would have been great. But guess what? Pax like to recline and those CX seats were not well received and are being eliminated.


Personally I don't recline fully as I don't find it the most comfortable + am also considerate for the person behind me. But I don't have a problem with someone reclining into me. But armrest hogs are another matter. :shock:

Reading this thread just wants to make me fly J with points more...