Denied seat recline on long haul

[MEL_Traveller]

I've never understood how people fail to recognise that by reclining you're significantly impacting on the personal space of the person behind you, and therefore reclining without at least some consideration for your fellow passengers is the height of rudeness.

no one has said that seat recliners fail to realise they're impacting on the space behind! Of course you're impacting on it!

what happens next however is up to the person behind. They can choose to regain that space by also reclining if they want. If they choose not to (because they feel it is rude, or they feel it is a short flight) then that is their choice. Outside meal times, the space of the recline arc belongs to the seat in front. If it belonged to the seat behind, airlines would allow those devices like 'knee defender'. They don't, so the airlines recognise that that space belongs to the recliner. (Aside from it being an advertised feature on both QF and DJ.)

Since we have introduced the element of a 71 year old earlier... let's change the question. Is a 6 foot 2 healthy young 25 year-old guy going to deprive a 71 year old war veteran the right to decline because the young up start claims their knees might get crushed? aww. Or is the 25 year old 6'2 going to deprive a cancer sufferer the right to recline because their knees might get crushed for an hour? No. I didn't think so.

 

[Justchecking]

I've never understood how people fail to recognise that by reclining you're significantly impacting on the personal space of the person behind you, and therefore reclining without at least some consideration for your fellow passengers is the height of rudeness.

Lets reduce the problem down to what it is...a common occurence in life. There are many instances during a day where someone (shock horror) impinges upon my personal space. It's called living in a city, sharing the planet with other people and going about my day. I can't control someone entering my personal space many times in the day either intentional or not. It's a fact of life and I don't immediately get all uppity because another person is within the vicinity of me. I also don't think they are necessarily acting out of rudeness either. Hey, if we are in an elevator then guess what, I'm going to have to put up with you standing right there on top of me and possibly even touching me if other people enter as well. It really comes down to what you are prepared to get cranky over.

A plane is no more a private space than an elevator, train or any other public area that many people share. It's an unrealistic expectation that no-one else is going to impinge upon your private little bubble. If you choose to get upset over that, thats your business. I don't choose to fret about someone reclining into my space. I've got bigger issues to spend my energy on than that.

 

[Mal Ware]

nail on the head!! this is about control! And not having someone else do something to you over which you don't have control.

Yes it is all about control and has nothing to do with comfort or having ones knees squashed.
Control I tell you, Control!

Or is the 25 year old 6'2 going to deprive a cancer sufferer the right to recline because their knees might get crushed for an hour? No. I didn't think so.

 

[whatmeworry]

Since we have introduced the element of a 71 year old earlier... let's change the question. Is a 6 foot 2 healthy young 25 year-old guy going to deprive a 71 year old war veteran the right to decline because the young up start claims their knees might get crushed? aww. Or is the 25 year old 6'2 going to deprive a cancer sufferer the right to recline because their knees might get crushed for an hour? No. I didn't think so.

Let's switch this around. What if a some w!@!#$@ French guy in their mid 20's in the exit row seat reclines during the meal service and then reclines later after later after being told politely not to recline earlier. The guy is only around 5 foot seven who should have been comfortable just putting his foot rest up. The person he was reclining into had surgery to remove cancer the year before, so if her is tray was out it hits her stomach which still has painful scars from surgery.

This happened to my mother on a QF flight on route to Europe. The guy in front actually called the FA because the WP couple (They received champagne prior take off) next to them encouraged him to call them over to complain about my mother.

 

[dajop]

Hey, if we are in an elevator then guess what, I'm going to have to put up with you standing right there on top of me and possibly even touching me if other people enter as well. It really comes down to what you are prepared to get cranky over.

Your general comments not withstanding, 30-40 seconds in an elevator is a little different to 7-15 hours in a sardine can.... But I still fail to understand why people (on both sides of the argument) are so petty minded and intolerant, and a little compromise (such as upright during meal times, and/or a shallower recline ) is not even on the radar. A manifestation of the ME ME ME society, I'm afraid.

Anyway I was thinking about this very thread on my overnight flight back to SIN from Kochi, India on SilkAir on Friday night. On the way over I had a pleasant flight, seat was a very comfortable exit row seat with height and wing adjustable head rests and I felt no need whatsoever to recline. Coming back I again had an exit row, but was advised at checkin that the seat did not recline. With my previous journey in mind, I declined the offer of moving to row 21 aisle seat, and stuck to my window exit without recline. However, I didn't realise this was a coughpy old plane .... no head rests at all so the seat only came to the top of my shoulders. Very uncomfortable, reclining would have helped a lot.

This led me to wonder, if most of those people who recline would be just as comfortable if they took the time to raise their headrest and use it for what it is meant for, at least for short flights. On some flights you'd be lucky to see 3 or 4 raised headrests, yet still many heads sticking out above the seat.

 

[turtlemichael]

This happened to my mother on a QF flight on route to Europe. The guy in front actually called the FA because the WP couple (They received champagne prior take off) next to them encouraged him to call them over to complain about my mother.

Sorry, but if your mother was going to be seriously discomforted by someone using their seat in the intended manner she should not have been flying in Y. I would not have reclined but he had every right too. I'm thinking you included that he was French for colour?

 

[samiam]

Sorry, but if your mother was going to be seriously discomforted by someone using their seat in the intended manner she should not have been flying in Y.

Yes absolutely - people who perhaps can't afford to fly in F or J shouldn't be flying Y- stick 'em in the hold with the pets and wheelchairs... really?

O/T - It's annoying, but less so (IMO) than the seat kickers and headrest pullers.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

If the comments flow like this on this thread it is easy to understand why people get pi**ed off on the plane, especially long haul !

 

[mannej]

What does the fact that he is French have to do with anything relating to this topic?

 

[JohnK]

if my (now supposedly 'aged and in need of some sort of special assistance because she is older than 71') mother can do it, so can a 71 year old.

Well thanks for that information but my father could not get out of the window seat. Luckily the 5' nothing female sitting in the exit row suddenly realised that she did not need to recline and left her seat up for the remainder of the flight.

Perhaps book an aisle seat so it isn't an issue in the first place?

And then I would have been in window seat with the same issues....

 

[blackcat20]

On the way over I had a pleasant flight, seat was a very comfortable exit row seat with height and wing adjustable head rests and I felt no need whatsoever to recline. Coming back I again had an exit row, but was advised at checkin that the seat did not recline. With my previous journey in mind, I declined the offer of moving to row 21 aisle seat, and stuck to my window exit without recline. However, I didn't realise this was a coughpy old plane .... no head rests at all so the seat only came to the top of my shoulders. Very uncomfortable, reclining would have helped a lot.

This led me to wonder, if most of those people who recline would be just as comfortable if they took the time to raise their headrest and use it for what it is meant for, at least for short flights. On some flights you'd be lucky to see 3 or 4 raised headrests, yet still many heads sticking out above the seat.

I'm not sure how having extra legroom means you don't need to use the recline function? Being able to stretch my legs out has no effect on decreasing the discomfort of having to sit upright for hours....

 

[Moody]

This argument kinda reminds me of cinema etiquette. There are some people on this forum that would happily arrive late at a screening and plonk themselves down directly in front of my pre-teenanger "because they can". There are others who would try their best (within reason) to not impact those already seated - particularly the height-challenged.

With the high ratio of DYKWIA on this forum it is hardly a surprise that consideration for others is not high on the agenda.

 

[Daver6]

And then I would have been in window seat with the same issues....

Is there only one aisle seat on the aircraft?

If you are younger, it really isn't that hard to get out of a window seat, with the other seats reclined and without the need for yanking on the back of those reclined seats. I've managed to do it many a time.

 

[dajop]

I'm not sure how having extra legroom means you don't need to use the recline function? Being able to stretch my legs out has no effect on decreasing the discomfort of having to sit upright for hours....

It's not the extra legroom, it's the headrest that makes the world of difference. I find the having a height adjustable headrest + adjustable wings on the head rest makes a huge difference, compared to a seat that ends at your shoulders. I would take the former (even without recline) any time over a seat that only comes up to your shoulders - - as with the latter you need to recline to just to support the head.

 

[JohnK]

Is there only one aisle seat on the aircraft?

No there are many aisle seats. I did not think it was going to be that difficult in premium economy.

If you are younger, it really isn't that hard to get out of a window seat, with the other seats reclined and without the need for yanking on the back of those reclined seats. I've managed to do it many a time.

Who is young?

If the seat in front is fully reclined I cannot stand up to try and get out of the seat. I need to roll out of my seat and somehow try and crawl to get out without inconveniencing person in front. Or somehow I should try and turn around without touching seat back of seat in front and get out with my knees as support on the seats in my row. Why should I be that considerate? My flight is already partially ruined.

It is clear that the airline is to blame here and if the person in front reclines then I cannot fully use the features they have provided for my seat. I cannot recline. I cannot use the IFE properly. I cannot get out of my seat. I should not have to purchase a business class seat.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No there are many aisle seats. I did not think it was going to be that difficult in premium economy.


Who is young?

If the seat in front is fully reclined I cannot stand up to try and get out of the seat. I need to roll out of my seat and somehow try and crawl to get out without inconveniencing person in front. Or somehow I should try and turn around without touching seat back of seat in front and get out with my knees as support on the seats in my row. Why should I be that considerate? My flight is already partially ruined.

It is clear that the airline is to blame here and if the person in front reclines then I cannot fully use the features they have provided for my seat. I cannot recline. I cannot use the IFE properly. I cannot get out of my seat. I should not have to purchase a business class seat.

come come now Even in PE, with the seat in front fully reclined, it only involved a partial bit of a limbo to get out. I agree you cannot stand fully upright, but you can very easily arch your back a little and slide out - especially if the person in the aisle has stood up to let you pass. And if that was you, then for your father sitting next to you it should not have been too much of a problem. We lean, arch and twist all day every day to pass people in the street, get to an empty seat on public transport, reach for something on a shelf at home, slide past someone already seated at the movies. Even, more practically, to get into and out of a car - you have to bend and swing in to get seated... you cannot enter a car in the fully standing upright position!

 

[11sjw]

Can't use the IFE in PE when the seat is reclined, you're kidding right?

 

[Pushka]

And you think that action is intentional to inflict pain on you?

How do you propose a 71 year old get out of a premium economy window seat with the seat in front fully reclined? Must make sure that everyone on the aircraft is inconvenienced so the recliner can have a comfortable flight exercising their right of a comfortable flight.

I keep saying it all about me, me, me, me and me again attitude. Keep convincing yourselves that you are right but you could not be further from reality.

And medhead please rejoin debate because these recliners do not make any sense....

It is hardly about me me me. If that was the case I would recline whenever I want to and grab hold of the seat in front of me when I exit. I do exactly the opposite. I've travelled with my 84 year old mother and she had no issues in exiting without making a trampoline of the seat in front. It isn't a matter of using the headrest as support. It's about dragging it up and down multiple times. It's about having an awareness of your actions on those around you. And trying to minimise their discomfort when you need to move/recline. I've never reclined my seat on a domestic flight. Others do in my face but I certainly don't get antsy about it.

I really have no idea how you came to your conclusions from my post.

 

[ozmille]

reading this thread makes me very very grateful that I have been able to almost exclusively fly J on long haul, it must be mayhem in whY when recliners and non recliners run into eachother if I read some of the posts :shock:

 

[JohnK]

Even in PE, with the seat in front fully reclined, it only involved a partial bit of a limbo to get out. I agree you cannot stand fully upright, but you can very easily arch your back a little and slide out - especially if the person in the aisle has stood up to let you pass.

This conversation can just go round and round in cicrles. You are making the assumption that everyone has the same mobility. My dad could not get up out of his seat and had to grab the headrest of seat in front. I felt sorry for him.

Can't use the IFE in PE when the seat is reclined, you're kidding right?

Not kidding. The screen can only be viewed properly at a certain angle. If seat is fully reclined the IFE (for me at least) is useless.

Obviously as I can see in this thread recliners have rights and non-recliners do not have any rights and must adapt to the circumstances around them.

Again I am not blaming the individual. It is the airlines that are at fault that are cramming everything to try and fit more and more people.

Sat in 7D today on a QF 737-800. Used the tray table and it was uncomfortable and pushing back against my belly. I am overweight. Looked over at 7C who was a trimmer man and tray table is resting against his belly. If the seat in front is reclined at any point in time then neither of use would be able use the tray table. The tray table is not for meal times only.