A dumb rule [Restricted Economy ineligible for Int. Upgrades]

[drewbles]

I'd say most employers have a no J policy for domestic, but we're talking about international here. And I'm guessing you're choosing the Y fare based on (in order):

1) flexibility
2) increased SCs
3) upgradeability

My employer, and many others, have a no J policy. Period.

Our parent company was trying to get us to drop our 'Premium Economy on international' rule, and our CFO said "you can do that if you want none of our staff to ever travel". The parent company is based overseas, and forgot that to get anywhere for us (UK or US) is a 14-22 hour trip. The Premium Economy rule quickly stayed in place. Even with that, we have strict dollar limits on the W class seats. If it's over, we have to pay out of pocket, or go back to Y.

 

[Edge]

My employer, and many others, have a no J policy. Period.

Our parent company was trying to get us to drop our 'Premium Economy on international' rule, and our CFO said "you can do that if you want none of our staff to ever travel". The parent company is based overseas, and forgot that to get anywhere for us (UK or US) is a 14-22 hour trip. The Premium Economy rule quickly stayed in place. Even with that, we have strict dollar limits on the W class seats. If it's over, we have to pay out of pocket, or go back to Y.

I think we're getting a bit off-topic.

But for everyone that does suffer under BFOD - even the most strict policies that have no exceptions for international - surely it would be better if disc-Y WAS upgradeable?

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Why don't they allow it? Because you will have less people buying the more expensive upgradeable fares. I am sure QF have done the sums and are happy.

At least the system is slightly more open compared to VA where you need a certain status before you can even think about upgrading an international fare.

Besides people less likely to buy more expensive (upgradeable) economy tickets, imagine the huge number of people that wouldn't bother to buy business class airfares anymore if it was now so easy to buy the cheapest economy fares & do points upgrades each time.

Many employers have a no J policy - for example, where I work, I can't select J ever when booking online through our corporate agency. However I can choose any Y, providing I can justify the uplift from the BFOD (flexibility is one of the standard reasons). So of course I will book the type of Y fare that will give me the prospect of an upgrade.

I think this is very common across the corporate sector (my employer is one of the larger employers in Australia).

I'm sure corporate bean counters would love cheaper airfares to be upgradeable because instead of buying J/PE/flexi whY fares (earning full J or fully Y SC & points), they would just pay for the rock bottom sale or red-e-deal type fare & tell their employees to use their own points to upgrade.

 

[BVT]

Re: A dumb rule

Not to mention the possible permutations and combinations of different price structures for all those non - flexi or slightly less flexible fares!!

 

[UP4014]

Re: A dumb rule

.

Does it really make sense for QF to fly with a bunch of empty J seats if a good customer is prepared to spend the points to upgrade and is OK with waiting at the back of the queue giving higher fare tickets get first crack at an upgrade.

Ah, we have some logic regarding a good customer.

A good customer is not one who buys the cheapest tickets,

Spending points does not make you a good customer, points come from all over the place, at a cost and the QFF scheme is run as a separate business.

Should a customer who purchases red e deal tickets who wants a points upgrade get his upgrade or should a customer who always buys a full flex fare get a free upgrade for being a good customer.

Conundrum but QF have decided red e deals don't have the option of upgrades, other airlines have different policies.

I'm always interested reading how people not working in a business know what's in that business owners (this case QF shareholders) best interests.


Matt

 

[Edge]

Re: A dumb rule

Ah, we have some logic regarding a good customer.

A good customer is not one who buys the cheapest tickets,

Spending points does not make you a good customer, points come from all over the place, at a cost and the QFF scheme is run as a separate business.

Should a customer who purchases red e deal tickets who wants a points upgrade get his upgrade or should a customer who always buys a full flex fare get a free upgrade for being a good customer.

Conundrum but QF have decided red e deals don't have the option of upgrades, other airlines have different policies.

I'm always interested reading how people not working in a business know what's in that business owners (this case QF shareholders) best interests.


Matt

It's plainly obvious that a shareholder benefits in your scenario when the first option happens. QF gets extra revenue when someone pays (whether it's with points or cash). Otherwise they get nothing. Sure they might get some incremental short-term spike in one person's targeted NPS feedback, but that will only last until the next time their flight is delayed.

Too many analysts, too many accountants, too many yield managers, too many complex systems. Simplification is often the best strategy.

If you think the people working in the business know what's best, take a look at the Qantas share price over the last 10 years.

 

[drewbles]

Re: A dumb rule

If you think the people working in the business know what's best, take a look at the Qantas share price over the last 10 years.

That's not something you can point at QF, that's *any* airline.

As someone famously said. What's the fastest way to make a small fortune? Start an airline with a large fortune. The aviation industry is amongst the most volatile in the world, and the higher the dependancy we have on it for us to commute the world, the more volatile it will be. Fuel prices, Volcanos, Terrorism, natural disasters etc. There's so many things that can cause a share price to plummet.

 

[legroom]

Yesterday I spent some $150 extra for a Super Saver as opposed to a Red-e-Deal.

The only reason is that with the former I would stand a chance of having a points upgrade.

WP should help a little, too.

Having parted company with my $$, I understand why QF is doing this.

Carrot and stick really.

Can't / Wouldn't buy a premium ticket outright ?

Have points to burn ?

Then, buy a higher priced upgradable ticket and join the lottery.

As a business, it's a win-win for QF.

The other way - potential upgrade from rock-bottom tickets - would remove the incentive for most people to buy higher priced premium cabin tickets.

To be fair, one should allow a public company to - at least - try to have a returns for its shareholders.

 

[UP4014]

Re: A dumb rule

It's plainly obvious that a shareholder benefits in your scenario when the first option happens. QF gets extra revenue when someone pays (whether it's with points or cash). Otherwise they get nothing. Sure they might get some incremental short-term spike in one person's targeted NPS feedback, but that will only last until the next time their flight is delayed.

Too many analysts, too many accountants, too many yield managers, too many complex systems. Simplification is often the best strategy.

If you think the people working in the business know what's best, take a look at the Qantas share price over the last 10 years.

QF made money with all their systems, Virgin with their simpler systems did not.

M'lord, I rest my case.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Yesterday I spent some $150 extra for a Super Saver as opposed to a Red-e-Deal.

The only reason is that with the former I would stand a chance of having a points upgrade.

WP should help a little, too.

Having parted company with my $$, I understand why QF is doing this.

Carrot and stick really.

Can't / Wouldn't buy a premium ticket outright ?

Have points to burn ?

Then, buy a higher priced upgradable ticket and join the lottery.

As a business, it's a win-win for QF.

The other way - potential upgrade from rock-bottom tickets - would remove the incentive for most people to buy higher priced premium cabin tickets.

To be fair, one should allow a public company to - at least - try to have a returns for its shareholders.

It would be a nice incentive for WP/WP1 though, & would solve the issue for ppl getting 600 SC to requalify for SG then crediting to AA or flying on a different airline altogether after that.

The statistics for potentially how much business QF lose under the current scheme vs how much they would make if ppl kept flying QF if Elites were allowed to do PE or J upgrades from any fare type would make interesting reading.

 

[nlagalle]

I think we're getting a bit off-topic.

But for everyone that does suffer under BFOD - even the most strict policies that have no exceptions for international - surely it would be better if disc-Y WAS upgradeable?

All my int travel was on cheap Y tickets for work. And I was able to upgrade successfully each time.. I put in for an upgrade when either offered or I hear the window opportunity was there..