Plastic bag ban...... meaningful initiative or just a feel good stunt?

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Mrs GPH just read part of an online post on another social media platform to me, where the question was asked, “Why are Coles banning single use plastic bags ? And then giving away plastic toys which will end up in land fill and the oceans” .
I did think that banning these supposedly bio degradable bags and yet continue to wrap all manner of food (unnecessarily) in plastic cling film and bags, all set on (single use) polystyrene trays, was somewhat pointless and probably counter productive.
But what is the alternative ?
Being somewhat older than a lot of the population today, I have memories of what shopping for food and meat was all about before the proliferation of supermarkets
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m sure supermarkets have made life so much better for many people .....
So as a young lad growing up in suburban Auckland in the 1960’s I still remember the regular visit into our street of the fruit and veg truck, and even a fisho and butcher truck, milk was delivered fresh daily as was bread and the news paper . My mum would take her basket into the street and buy with cash (no Credit card and fly buys back then) her needs for that day or the next few days .
If you were. A working family I.e. mum and dad both working, there was a corner store (Dairy in NZ parlance) a green grocer, butcher and baker usually within walking distance (or at least what we called walking distance in the 50’s and 60’s) for those last minute staples, 1/2 lb of sausages, a bag of spuds (unwashed and odd shaped) or an extra pint of milk for that last minute rice pudding. I would wander down to said purveyors of fine foods, armed with a string bag made by natives in the Solomon Islands where my parents lived as missionaries for the first few years of my life on the planet. The potatoes were bagged in brown paper, the sausages in butchers paper and all placed into my string bag.
Even fish and chips were wrapped in a layer of grease proof or butchers paper but with an outer layer of news print to finish the job.
We recycled before we even knew what it meant, plastic wasn’t missed because it wasn’t needed, milk came in glass bottles and you placed the empties in your milk box / letter box for collection each morning 9bedore sunrise). Bread for school lunches was wrapped in a waxed paper, delivered fresh Every morning . Life was simple and in the opinion of this writer, somewhat better than now.
I am like most people, guilty of the most horrendous of plastic use crimes, I have had to make a conscious effort to NOT use plastic, and it’s bloody hard.
I buy lemons and just carry them loose to the checkout, but beans are a bit more difficult,
When the supermarket made its first appearance in NZ , they used double layered paper bags to put grocery items in. I’m not sure when that all went south, but it seems to me to be (maybe) the lesser of the two evils.
I am finding that when I “think” I need something for the house, I am now visiting my local second hand /antique store, I have managed to (buy) recycle some great stuff in recent times, and all of reasonably high quality for a much lower price.
Forgive the ramblings of an old fart living in the past, but I suspect enough is enough, and we all need to do our bit, even if it seem futile.
 
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What about
BBQ chicken in plastic bag?
Bread in a plastic bag?
Single serve yoghurt in a single use plastic tub with single use peel off top.
Arnotts biscuit in single use plastic packaging?

I’m also interested in why you are saying just don’t buy bagged potatoes - (which I don’t) which is a voluntary act. Isn’t this the same logic therefore as voluntarily reusing single use plastic bags.
Shouldn’t bagged potatoes be banned along with apples in a containers, grapes in bags, etc etc

Not morality - just a feel good virtue signalling at best, hypocritical probably as well. I’ve seen lots of people with the reusable bags but in it are single use non recyclables. My point is the move to reusable plastic bags will not reduce plastic waste. Have any of the early adopters of reusable plastic bags also gone on to reduce overall plastic packaging in their stores or jurisdiction?

Straw man argument equating using single use plastic bags with shoplifting/morality
 
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Forg should check out my monthly load of horse feed this thursday…plastic upon plastic upon……
Once upon a time chaff came in hessian bags
 
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Forg should check out my monthly load of horse feed this thursday…plastic upon plastic upon……
Once upon a time chaff came in hessian bags

Haha my monthly load of horse feed is also coming this Thursday as well.

Lots and lots of plastic and plastic twine tying the “biscuits” of hay.

Plastics are everywhere.

I reckon the reusable polypropylene bags once they are broken will he dumped in the same way as the original plastic bags and will take much much longer to degrade if at all. They do degrade in the sun into small microplastic particles. I wonder - do aquatic wildlife like colourful plastic particles? So one wayward reusable plastic bag that accidentally makes it into the ocean breaks into tiny particles of colourful plastic - currently the equivalent of 50 single use plastic bags

While we are at it, are the printing and dyeing of the polypropylene on the reusables environmentally friendly? - I think not
 
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The same material used in the reusable bags - non woven polypropylene. The pen in middle gives an indication of size.

Single use
Going to landfill
This sheet from wrapping 1 sterile instrument tray. One operation has between 3-10 trays. At our medium sized hospital 60 operations per day.

Some hospitals are starting to recycle them. Which is good, however the recyclability is limited because the recycling facility is in Melbourne and so these have to be trucked from all over the place - diesel use?. Then there facility can only take so much and most are in fact dumped.

Every little bit does not count and I also believe that unless a rethink of all plastic use is undertaken it will be just virtue signalling.”


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Forg should check out my monthly load of horse feed this thursday…plastic upon plastic upon……
Once upon a time chaff came in hessian bags
Oh, the lack of choice in many cases coughs me royally!
But I don’t see why reduction isn’t a good thing - why we should never take a step in the right direction because that step doesn’t cover the entire distance that’s needed to cover.
 
Reduction in plastic use is a good thing. But the premise that going from single to multiuse bags reduces plastic use is not necessarily correct. Many assume that it’s a step in the right direction. Is it? I don’t know.
 
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I’ve possibly missed something earlier in this discussion; why does re-using a bag result in more-or-the-same plastic discarded than multiple bags that’re used once & binned?
 
I think over time, there will be more bans on various things. I know single use straws are in the firing line, but there are some medical uses for them.

Microbeads in cosmetics have by and large gone. Single Use supermarket bags are on the way out. More things will go over time....
 
Eventually the multi use bags gets dumped as well.

One of the reusable bags is equivalent to x single use bags in plastic . Eventually they too reach their end of life and when they do the plastic that is discarded is equivalent to discarding x single use bags.

Meaningful change will occur when all use of plastics is examined and reconsidered
 
A good idea that Paul Murray espoused earlier today.Coles and Woollies should have no more than 10% of checkouts handing out free bags.At all the others you have to bring your own.The long lines at the free bag lines should motivate many to remember to bring their bags.
 
Eventually the multi use bags gets dumped as well.

One of the reusable bags is equivalent to x single use bags in plastic . Eventually they too reach their end of life and when they do the plastic that is discarded is equivalent to discarding x single use bags.

Meaningful change will occur when all use of plastics is examined and reconsidered
Yeah that last sentence does make sense; but with all the whinging there’s been about this change, I reckon it’ll take a while to get there.

The bags I use, we’ve had them for years. Definitely over 10 years, one of the newest of them had a mini-keg in it as a prezzy for my wedding 8 years ago. :) They’ve not fallen apart yet, as a maybe-positive they’re allegedly recycled & recyclable ... but in that time they’d have taken the place of I reckon about 500-odd single-use bags.

A good idea that Paul Murray espoused earlier today.Coles and Woollies should have no more than 10% of checkouts handing out free bags.At all the others you have to bring your own.The long lines at the free bag lines should motivate many to remember to bring their bags.
Suspect the free bags thing will end soon, if not already; there are a few things I get from Coles, and they were charging for bags last weekend.
A good idea by Paul Murray; is that like human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria? :D

Problem with 10% of checkouts is when only 1-2 are open at any time.
They could have every 5th or 10th customer in that 1 or 2 checkouts offered free bags. :)
Unfortunately I tend to shop when it’s busiest, so all checkouts are open (although I do tend to use the self-serve checkout despite the longer queues to avoid the societal requirement for uneasy pleasantries :)).
 
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non recyclable plastic
LOL
The vast majority of plastic is recyclable. The issue is that the recycling infrastructure is different in different jurisdictions causing certain types of otherwise recyclable plastic not to be recycled in that area. Rather then upgrade the infrastructure, or send it to somewhere that can recycle it, they just claim that that type of plastic can't be recycled.

The company that collects the cardboard and plastic bales for recycling used to take plastic that they themselves couldn't deal with at their plant. Those plastics used to be shipped to China for processing.
Recent law changes in China now means that China refuses those shipments, thus the recycling company will now no longer accept those plastics (mainly coloured plastic).
 
Reduction in plastic use is a good thing. But the premise that going from single to multiuse bags reduces plastic use is not necessarily correct. Many assume that it’s a step in the right direction. Is it? I don’t know.

I've been using the same 25 reusable bags weekly for at least 5 years. Just purchased 5 replacements, that will last at least 5 years. someone above said 20 to 1 for plastic in the reusable bags. We've reused our bags at least 250 times, probably more like 400 times. And they hold much more than the single use bags, so lets say each of my reusable bags has saved 500 to 800 single use bags.
 
I've been using the same 25 reusable bags weekly for at least 5 years. Just purchased 5 replacements, that will last at least 5 years. someone above said 20 to 1 for plastic in the reusable bags. We've reused our bags at least 250 times, probably more like 400 times. And they hold much more than the single use bags, so lets say each of my reusable bags has saved 500 to 800 single use bags.
Your calcs are wrong. It's 40:1 at a minimum with some bags reaching up to 107:1, not 20:1.

The new bags are the same size as the old bags. They can only "hold more" because the thicker plastic is able to stretch more before breaking, thus can hold more weight then the older bags.
 
Perspective questions :
How many plastic bags of potting mix and fertiliser does bunnings sell a week ?
How much plastic is contained on a typical b double loaded with food for a supermarket chain?
How much plastic is contained on a b double loaded with fertiliser ?

The more I think about it the more certain I become that the plastic bag regs are an exercise in National Virtue signalling and little else.
 
When I find myself inside a supermarket without reuseable bags, and I'm not buying much, I just grab the free ones in the fruit and vegetable section and fill them up at checkout. They don't have carry handles, but will do the job.

My theory is that by getting rid of the ultra-effective packing system at checkouts with the old bags, and thus the queues have become longer and longer as checkout people struggle with packing reuseable bags of different sizes - that encourages people to go to the self-checkout machines. Maybe this was the intent all along.
Regards,
Renato
 
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