Plastic bag ban...... meaningful initiative or just a feel good stunt?

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Mrs GPH just read part of an online post on another social media platform to me, where the question was asked, “Why are Coles banning single use plastic bags ? And then giving away plastic toys which will end up in land fill and the oceans” .
I did think that banning these supposedly bio degradable bags and yet continue to wrap all manner of food (unnecessarily) in plastic cling film and bags, all set on (single use) polystyrene trays, was somewhat pointless and probably counter productive.
But what is the alternative ?
Being somewhat older than a lot of the population today, I have memories of what shopping for food and meat was all about before the proliferation of supermarkets
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m sure supermarkets have made life so much better for many people .....
So as a young lad growing up in suburban Auckland in the 1960’s I still remember the regular visit into our street of the fruit and veg truck, and even a fisho and butcher truck, milk was delivered fresh daily as was bread and the news paper . My mum would take her basket into the street and buy with cash (no Credit card and fly buys back then) her needs for that day or the next few days .
If you were. A working family I.e. mum and dad both working, there was a corner store (Dairy in NZ parlance) a green grocer, butcher and baker usually within walking distance (or at least what we called walking distance in the 50’s and 60’s) for those last minute staples, 1/2 lb of sausages, a bag of spuds (unwashed and odd shaped) or an extra pint of milk for that last minute rice pudding. I would wander down to said purveyors of fine foods, armed with a string bag made by natives in the Solomon Islands where my parents lived as missionaries for the first few years of my life on the planet. The potatoes were bagged in brown paper, the sausages in butchers paper and all placed into my string bag.
Even fish and chips were wrapped in a layer of grease proof or butchers paper but with an outer layer of news print to finish the job.
We recycled before we even knew what it meant, plastic wasn’t missed because it wasn’t needed, milk came in glass bottles and you placed the empties in your milk box / letter box for collection each morning 9bedore sunrise). Bread for school lunches was wrapped in a waxed paper, delivered fresh Every morning . Life was simple and in the opinion of this writer, somewhat better than now.
I am like most people, guilty of the most horrendous of plastic use crimes, I have had to make a conscious effort to NOT use plastic, and it’s bloody hard.
I buy lemons and just carry them loose to the checkout, but beans are a bit more difficult,
When the supermarket made its first appearance in NZ , they used double layered paper bags to put grocery items in. I’m not sure when that all went south, but it seems to me to be (maybe) the lesser of the two evils.
I am finding that when I “think” I need something for the house, I am now visiting my local second hand /antique store, I have managed to (buy) recycle some great stuff in recent times, and all of reasonably high quality for a much lower price.
Forgive the ramblings of an old fart living in the past, but I suspect enough is enough, and we all need to do our bit, even if it seem futile.
 
Perspective questions :
How many plastic bags of potting mix and fertiliser does bunnings sell a week ?
How much plastic is contained on a typical b double loaded with food for a supermarket chain?
How much plastic is contained on a b double loaded with fertiliser ?

The more I think about it the more certain I become that the plastic bag regs are an exercise in National Virtue signalling and little else.
We purchased a carpet rug from IKEA. Shrouded multiple times in very heavy plastic.
 
All this is just chipping around the edges. Our population is too small to make much of a difference and the large populations are too poor to care.

Waste disposal and minimising plastic packaging are just not on the radar of the burgeoning populations in Asia/Sub-continent where the ground is the trash can and waterways clog with refuse until the rains wash it all into the sea.

These are the places where buying things like washing powder in one-use satchels, for example, is just part of everyday life. I'd have thought that even a cursory glimpse of life in China or India would reveal the futility of the supermarket bag debate here. By all means do what you can, but it's a drop in the ocean in the grand scheme of things.
 
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Having just returned from Bali and witnessed the vast amount of plastic rubbish, I was wondering if there is a business opportunity for a recycling plant? Labour is cheap and you could pay people to bring "resources" to you similar to the deposit schemes here. I'm sure if people could earn money they would do it, cleaning the place up in the process. I'm not advocating they should pay a deposit on containers like we do.
 
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Reports in the media today:
PLASTIC BACKLASH 'HIT SALES"

THE chief number cruncher at the company that owns Coles had conceded for the first time that phasing out single-use plastic bags had hurt sales at the supermarket chain.

... Wesfarmers chief financial officer Anthony Gianotti has acknowledged that forcing customers to use their own bags or reusable plastic bags has weighed in turnover, although he did not quantify the affect.
...
Woolworths has yet to disclose if it had lost any sales momentum, but given Coles' experience it would be unsurprising.
...
Mr. Gianotti said yesterday ... He could not quantify the size if the sales hit ...
 
Given that Woolworths has been cutting hours and store budgets (to the point where some store managers have quit over it), yes, there has been a drop in sales at Woolworths.
 
People still have to buy groceries somewhere and I don't know anywhere that will give you a free bag.
Well actually ... the fruit market I go to has plenty of general grocery items as well as fruit/veg, and they still do free plastical baggies.
 
When I go to Harris farm I use on of their big rectangular shallow fruit boxes - these are good as they usually also have a lid and sits nicely in the boot.

Don’t do woolies/Coles/Aldi fruit and veg unless no choice
 
Your calcs are wrong. It's 40:1 at a minimum with some bags reaching up to 107:1, not 20:1.

The new bags are the same size as the old bags. They can only "hold more" because the thicker plastic is able to stretch more before breaking, thus can hold more weight then the older bags.
It's not my calculation. I quoting the number from someone up thread who said 20:1
Last I checked 500 to 800 is still more than 107. Do you want to check my calculation on that one?
Not to mention the real saving for disposable plastic bags for us is probably more like 1200...

Finally, you do not even know the bags I'm talking about. Not the coughpy 15 cent bags. The $2 reusable green bags. They hold more because they are BIGGER.

I guess if we ignore that the bags I use are bigger and hold more, and accept you're version. 250, 400 and 600 are still greater than 107.
 
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Having just returned from Bali and witnessed the vast amount of plastic rubbish, I was wondering if there is a business opportunity for a recycling plant? Labour is cheap and you could pay people to bring "resources" to you similar to the deposit schemes here. I'm sure if people could earn money they would do it, cleaning the place up in the process. I'm not advocating they should pay a deposit on containers like we do.

Australia doesn't do well when it comes to recycling and renewables, there's simply too many NIMBYs, so yes Bali would ideal.

Look at the canned Waste Plastic to Fuel facility proposal here in the ACT. Despite the technology being used all over the world and even in other parts of Australia, the experts here deemed that project too risky because it's "new technology". So it's off to landfill for all the plastic that can't be recycled. Thankfully we've got the plastic bag problem in hand though.
 
Reusable bags are really better than the old grey plastic ones.Tonight from twitter-
_iUmDKeO
.
 
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I guess there will always be folk who don't embrace change. But with an 80% reduction in plastic bag use I guess the greater good is being achieved.

There were still people hosing down their drive during water restrictions, but that doesn't mean the ban should be lifted.
 
I guess there will always be folk who don't embrace change. But with an 80% reduction in plastic bag use I guess the greater good is being achieved.

There were still people hosing down their drive during water restrictions, but that doesn't mean the ban should be lifted.

From the stores that sell Apple pieces in two layers of plastic, can we all stop pretending this was about the environment. I think they’ve already admitted they’re making something like 300mil out of this bag ban which goes into revenue for the shops, not to environmental causes.

Same goes for the container deposit scheme. They’ve opened so few reception centres that most people just continue to put them in with their recycling (or even normal rubbish).

I’m not saying there’s not an environmental benefit to this but you can all collectively stop patting yourselves on the back - this was a small component of a much bigger problem.
 
I’m not saying there’s not an environmental benefit to this but you can all collectively stop patting yourselves on the back - this was a small component of a much bigger problem.

And it has to start somewhere. If we only consider the big problem nothing would ever get done.

We are getting a bit precious needing three crackers and three slices of cheese packaged 'for our convenience'. But maybe that's one of the next things on the list.
 
I’ve mostly cut back on buying the bags. Now there is a fuss at home when others try looking for them to put something in. But the stores themselves have just got to stop their ridiculous use of plastic. And every garment at Sportscraft for instance is wrapped in plastic.
 
I guess there will always be folk who don't embrace change. But with an 80% reduction in plastic bag use I guess the greater good is being achieved.
The study used to get that number is flawed. It doesn't account for increased sales in (plastic) garbage bags, nor the increased size of the newer shopping bags, nor the fact that you need to use the new bags at least 40 times to cover the resource costs of the banned bags and people simply aren't doing so.

The entire ban is nothing but a feel good measure that achieves nothing of substance.

Same goes for the container deposit scheme. They’ve opened so few reception centres that most people just continue to put them in with their recycling (or even normal rubbish).
I refuse to pay pointless stupidity taxes, so I've stopped buying juice for morning tea at work and instead use the Styrofoam cups in the tea room for water.

The CDS is also a pointless money making scheme. They have so few collection points, that it costs more in both fuel and time to get to somewhere to exchange the bottles that it becomes useless. Most people will have so few bottles to exchange (and no space to store bottles until they have a useful amount) that they don't bother.

The logistics and resources required to run these schemes and bans only make the problems worse, yet they are ignored so people can get their feel good measure in.
 
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