Plastic bag ban...... meaningful initiative or just a feel good stunt?

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Mrs GPH just read part of an online post on another social media platform to me, where the question was asked, “Why are Coles banning single use plastic bags ? And then giving away plastic toys which will end up in land fill and the oceans” .
I did think that banning these supposedly bio degradable bags and yet continue to wrap all manner of food (unnecessarily) in plastic cling film and bags, all set on (single use) polystyrene trays, was somewhat pointless and probably counter productive.
But what is the alternative ?
Being somewhat older than a lot of the population today, I have memories of what shopping for food and meat was all about before the proliferation of supermarkets
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m sure supermarkets have made life so much better for many people .....
So as a young lad growing up in suburban Auckland in the 1960’s I still remember the regular visit into our street of the fruit and veg truck, and even a fisho and butcher truck, milk was delivered fresh daily as was bread and the news paper . My mum would take her basket into the street and buy with cash (no Credit card and fly buys back then) her needs for that day or the next few days .
If you were. A working family I.e. mum and dad both working, there was a corner store (Dairy in NZ parlance) a green grocer, butcher and baker usually within walking distance (or at least what we called walking distance in the 50’s and 60’s) for those last minute staples, 1/2 lb of sausages, a bag of spuds (unwashed and odd shaped) or an extra pint of milk for that last minute rice pudding. I would wander down to said purveyors of fine foods, armed with a string bag made by natives in the Solomon Islands where my parents lived as missionaries for the first few years of my life on the planet. The potatoes were bagged in brown paper, the sausages in butchers paper and all placed into my string bag.
Even fish and chips were wrapped in a layer of grease proof or butchers paper but with an outer layer of news print to finish the job.
We recycled before we even knew what it meant, plastic wasn’t missed because it wasn’t needed, milk came in glass bottles and you placed the empties in your milk box / letter box for collection each morning 9bedore sunrise). Bread for school lunches was wrapped in a waxed paper, delivered fresh Every morning . Life was simple and in the opinion of this writer, somewhat better than now.
I am like most people, guilty of the most horrendous of plastic use crimes, I have had to make a conscious effort to NOT use plastic, and it’s bloody hard.
I buy lemons and just carry them loose to the checkout, but beans are a bit more difficult,
When the supermarket made its first appearance in NZ , they used double layered paper bags to put grocery items in. I’m not sure when that all went south, but it seems to me to be (maybe) the lesser of the two evils.
I am finding that when I “think” I need something for the house, I am now visiting my local second hand /antique store, I have managed to (buy) recycle some great stuff in recent times, and all of reasonably high quality for a much lower price.
Forgive the ramblings of an old fart living in the past, but I suspect enough is enough, and we all need to do our bit, even if it seem futile.
 
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Nobody has mentioned the "other" plastics...disposable nappies, coffee cups and water/drink bottles.
And the fact that unless our neighbours to the north ban them also then our beaches will still be covered in them. cough.

A good start but a meaningless gesture...just like the coal vs renewables debate.
 
Likewise I was wondering what happened to all the unused SUB's that suddenly couldn't be used.
In most cases? The same as those chicken bags.

The old online bags where considered single use by the company, but were sent to states that had already banned the older thin bags as they were thick enough to get around the bans.
My store was able to get a number of them off to the charity. Then we found a number of other boxes. The last 6 boxes were set aside near the dock desk and labeled "give to charity". They sat there for 3 days (the charity only comes 4 days/week). When I went down to the dock to push the boxes outside with the other stuff for the charity, I found out someone had tossed them. o_O:mad:
They sit there for 3 days without an issue, then a few hours before they get given to people to use as bags, they get dumped for landfill.
 
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I think both Coles and WW know that the switch from the previous SUBs to their reuseable plastic bags is not going to be an environmental win.It has been estimated that you would need to use the new bags 104 times to get an environmental advantage over the old SUBs.
Do you know how many times you need to use your green bags?

Now I am using an old grey bag tonight to put my kitchen rubbish in the bin.It will be this bags 27th use.But looking in the bin at the unit block I am staying in I see new Coles and WW bags.They are definitely getting very much less than 104 uses.And it means they are not being recycled.
 
What I don't understand about this whole debate is how this has suddenly become such a big issue in the last few years so quickly? I reuse my plastic bags as bin liners and don't litter. It's like the more the greenies try to instil guilt in me, the more I want plastic. I've resolved to earn more money so I have the freedom to choose whether I want to be environmentally friendly or not.
I guess anything which causes debate and conversation is a good thing. Because clearly the fact that we all know there is a pool of plastic the size of a European country floating off the coast of California hasn’t been enough of a wake up call.
 
^ I’m with you, GPH, on it at least making people think about it.
I mean you get these free re-usable tote-bags from all over the place these days, yet you still see 2/3 of people shopping at Colesworths using brand-new plastic bags (they were not free in the Coles I was in today). There’s so little effort involved in using bags you already have, yet people just couldn’t be coughd.
 
Interesting graph.
chartoftheday_12211_the_countries_polluting_the_oceans_the_most_n.jpg

 
The problem with graphs like that, even though they're accurate, is that the lazies will use it for the excuse "why should I bother I'm not stopping China so I won't have any effect".
 
Hmmm ... I dunno, that's a bit like saying thousands of people get away with shoplifting without any repercussions so I'm gonna nick some stuff too. Doesn't make it the right thing to do, even if my specific theft has little to no impact.
 
the right thing to do is a moveable feast, most of the benefit is in virtue signalling by the practitioners.

Forg .. just have a look at those big domino video's on utube and imagine that about 1 in 10000 domino's was doing the right thing
What difference did it make to the outcome ?
The domino's all suffer the same fate
 
Huh? That analogy doesn't help your argument, if a single domino holds it's ground & doesn't fall over then none of the domino's "downstream" fall down either!

Now if you were to take the room full of Ping-Pong balls on mouse-traps from the 60's video description of a nuclear chain reaction, and talk about 1 of those mousetraps doing the right thing, it's a better analogy for you to use. :)
 
Hmmm ... I dunno, that's a bit like saying thousands of people get away with shoplifting without any repercussions so I'm gonna nick some stuff too. Doesn't make it the right thing to do, even if my specific theft has little to no impact.
Except that around 4% of the price of things is to cover theft. The more theft there is, the more that 4% $ amount increases.
 
The problem with graphs like that, even though they're accurate, is that the lazies will use it for the excuse "why should I bother I'm not stopping China so I won't have any effect".
Except that in OZ most people don’t discard plastic bags in the rivers. And what about all the single use, non recyclable plastic packaging that are in increasing use?. What’s the point of a reusable when it’s full of products which are packaged in single use non recyclable plastic packaging. Feeling good I suppose and massive virtue signalling.
 
And the same here. The more rubbish that gets discarded, the more waste, and pollution there is.
Yes that's what I was getting at. Me nicking a ... block of cheese (*Homerdrool* cheese) puts the cost of everyone's groceries up to 104% from 103.9999999999999999%. It's totally insignificant. Yet most people won't nick that cheese, in fact the vast majority of people who're happy to go through plastic bags at 10 per week also won't nick that cheese!

Except that in OZ most people don’t discard plastic bags in the rivers.
Except for the ones that are accidentally lost (eg. blowing away on rubbish day), instead they go into polluting landfills ... there's good reason not to plastic-bag.

There isn't.
Do tell?
 
Except for the ones that are accidentally lost (eg. blowing away on rubbish day), instead they go into polluting landfills ... there's good reason not to plastic-bag.

What happens to all the single use non recyclable plastic packaging that are still being produced such as these. There is no other purpose in using the reusables when buying all manner of products wrapped in single use non recyclable plastics other than virtue signalling and feeling good about it
DED3589A-6F8D-404A-A36F-52FC49090A2B.jpeg
 
What happens to all the single use non recyclable plastic packaging that are still being produced such as these. There is no other purpose in using the reusables when buying all manner of products wrapped in single use non recyclable plastics other than virtue signalling and feeling good about it
View attachment 133491
Nobody is making you buy pre-bagged potatoes. I don't buy pre-bagged potatoes.

I also feel good about not shoplifting, despite knowing that if I did it would make an immeasurable difference. I guess it's about morality?
 
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