Passenger [QF/DJ] jets narrowly avoided mid-air collision

[serfty]

Passenger jets narrowly avoided mid-air collision | thetelegraph.com.au

TWO passenger jets came within metres of colliding during a domestic flight.
... both flying from Melbourne to Brisbane when they were ordered into a holding pattern 91km from Brisbane Airport last month.

As they circled ... on July 29, the Qantas crew noticed the Virgin aircraft inside the 300m separation zone and contacted air traffic control. "Air traffic control immediately issued instructions to the other aircraft to restore the minimum separation distance," ...

 

[Mal]

I saw this last night and laughed at the typical NoNews bias ... (This photo isn't visible on this link - but on the one I saw the QF tail was larger and more visible than the DJ one.)

 

[Undercover Brother]

I saw this last night and laughed at the typical NoNews bias

Unfortunately Mal this incident was as serious as it's being made out to be.

 

[simongr]

I think Mal meant that nonews were biased in making QF more prominent in the news story.

 

[Undercover Brother]

My bad. Coffee time

 

[markis10]

I wonder how the crew noticed the DJ flight infringing vertically, I suspect TCAS was involved!

 

[docjames]

I've hardly had a flight late in the day into BNE in the last 12 months that hasnt been forced to "circle/delay arrival due to ATC / busy traffic" and ended up circling over the gold coast, so this was eventually going to happen. I've always wondered about all the others circling at the same time. Now I know......

IMO Airservices and BNE needs to do something about the logjam of arrivals at BNE in the evenings (weekdays especially) as it increases the likelihood that this happens.


No nonews bashing from me - this is a serious incident - something needs to be done to help stop it happening again.

 

[markj23]

I have no issue with the actual article, what does annoy me is the text used on the frontpage of news.com.au

"Qantas-Virgin crash avoided by metres"

Sure they might have been close, but whats to say they would have crashed

 

[markis10]

I've hardly had a flight late in the day into BNE in the last 12 months that hasnt been forced to "circle/delay arrival due to ATC / busy traffic" and ended up circling over the gold coast, so this was eventually going to happen. I've always wondered about all the others circling at the same time. Now I know......

IMO Airservices and BNE needs to do something about the logjam of arrivals at BNE in the evenings (weekdays especially) as it increases the likelihood that this happens.


No nonews bashing from me - this is a serious incident - something needs to be done to help stop it happening again.

Doc, they are usually separated laterally and vertically, at the moment there are around 12 holding (not all with ADSB so they are not all showing) and you can see even though some are at the same altitude they are many miles apart. The most I have had in stacks is 60, most stacks are above the weather so pilots can see each other as well, in fact holding patterns are generally very safe with very little accident incidence worldwide. There is not much CASA can do about BNE traffic, sometimes things happen! PS Note the RAAF BBJs callsign - FRANK :mrgreen:

 

[docjames]

Surely with the flight legs (basically <2hr each) on the eastern seaboard, they really should time it better to avoid this situation. The fuel wastage alone is an issue, let alone the proximity of all those aircraft.

I guess they cant account for changeable weather - which BNE certainly qualifies for....


300m at 900kph isnt much separation ........

 

[markis10]

Surely with the flight legs (basically <2hr each) on the eastern seaboard, they really should time it better to avoid this situation. The fuel wastage alone is an issue, let alone the proximity of all those aircraft.

I guess they cant account for changeable weather - which BNE certainly qualifies for....


300m at 900kph isnt much separation ........

That 300m is vertically, and they are not doing 900kmh vertically, only horizontally (its 1000ft in old language). Aircraft on the eastern seaboard are slot timed, which is why you will often sit at the gate as a pax thinking huh, why are we not going. While slots help, at the end of the day you also need to take into account departures and priority as well, although I hear your pain, nothing beats having more runways!

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I saw this last night and laughed at the typical NoNews bias ... (This photo isn't visible on this link - but on the one I saw the QF tail was larger and more visible than the DJ one.)

Guess who else ran with the story? ( nonews.com.au + the couriermail.com.au, both using the same picture)

couriermail.com.au

View attachment 3632


Some of the reader comments I read somewhere have been priceless.

 

[nlagalle]

Guess who else ran with the story? ( nonews.com.au + the couriermail.com.au, both using the same picture)

couriermail.com.au

View attachment 3632


Some of the reader comments I read somewhere have been priceless.

Being that they are one and the same, you'll find the same article on the Herald Sun and daily telegraph websites. They are all owned by News Limited.

 

[oz_mark]

Being that they are one and the same, you'll find the same article on the Herald Sun and daily telegraph websites. They are all owned by News Limited.

Indeed. You will find that the follwoing all give you the same story

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/two-commercial-aeroplanes-in-brisbane-near-miss/story-e6frg6nf-1226125642445
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/two-commercial-aeroplanes-in-brisbane-near-miss/story-e6frg6nf-1226125642445
http://www.couriermail.com.au/two-commercial-aeroplanes-in-brisbane-near-miss/story-e6frg6nf-1226125642445

All very similar URL's except for the name of the newspaper

 

[markis10]

There is an update this morning indicating ATC may be at fault, I am hesitant to agree with this given the early stages of the investigation but thought it worth posting:

AN inexperienced air traffic controller has been blamed for ordering a Virgin passenger jet to fly dangerously close to a Qantas airliner last month. The Courier-Mail revealed yesterday that the Australian Transport Safety Bureau had launched an investigation into the incident over the Gold Coast on July 29.
Qantas flight crew raised the alarm when they saw a Virgin Boeing 737 within the separation zone, of 300m vertical and 9km lateral.
After Qantas contacted air traffic control, the Virgin jet corrected its position and avoided a near-miss.
A Virgin Australia spokeswoman yesterday insisted their aircraft had followed instructions from air traffic control throughout the flight from Melbourne to Brisbane.


An air traffic controller, who did not want to be named, confirmed this was the case and alleged it was a "significant error" on the part of another controller.
"This incident was the result of the air traffic controller responsible making a significant error and clearing the aircraft to descend through the (holding) pattern, missing the fact that separation would be compromised and the aircraft were placed in dangerous proximity as a result," the Brisbane-based controller said.

Read more: Human error responsible as Qantas and Virgin jets fly too close to each other | News.com.au
​

 

[docjames]

As always, the full investigation is important and will hopefully reveal all.

This recent update does validate some of my concerns.

 

[oz_mark]

There is an update this morning indicating ATC may be at fault, I am hesitant to agree with this given the early stages of the investigation but thought it worth posting:

The description of the event on the ATSB site would be indicitive that ATC may well be being looked at in this event:

The Qantas and Virgin Boeing 737 aircraft were en route from Melbourne, Victoria to Brisbane, Queensland and were operating in a holding pattern about 28 km west-south-west of the Gold Coast in accordance with prior instructions from air traffic control. Whereas the required radar separation standard was 1,000 ft vertical or 5 NM (9 km) lateral separation, the distance between the two aircraft reduced to approximately 4 NM or 7.4 km.

Investigation: AO-2011-090 - Breakdown of Separation - Boeing 737-838, VH-VZC and a Boeing 737-8FE, VH-VOT, Coolangatta QLD, 29 July 2011

 

[Oneworldplus2]

[h=1]Human error responsible as Qantas and Virgin jets fly too close to each other[/h]

A final report is expected in nine to 12 months.

9-12 months for a report :shock::shock::shock: (Just imagine if it was something preventable that could stop a future crash?!?)

 

[markis10]

[h=1]Human error responsible as Qantas and Virgin jets fly too close to each other[/h]


9-12 months for a report :shock::shock::shock: (Just imagine if it was something preventable that could stop a future crash?!?)

Still waiting on the NT head to head incident report to be published, which is more serious IMHO!

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Still waiting on the head to head report to be published, which is more serious IMHO!

When did that take place Markis10?