I wonder had JASA's continued ...

[RichardMEL]

Why did Qantas get rid of any seat awards when they were making a killing out of it?

(again..)

except QF have *not* gotten rid of ASA's. My sister used one for a one-way MEL-SFO the other week (no she didn't tell me beforehand, not that she had to of course - her choice )... what they HAVE removed is the "ASA at classic award level" benefit (ie: awards booked in X/U/P inventory "sold" at Classic Award price yet earning points and SC per ASA rules).

there IS a difference. (to me at least )

 

[RichardMEL]

So as the abolition of MASAs JASAs and the rest of the alphabet soup, and the reduction in SC earn through "simpler and fairer", have their desired effect and reduce the number of people with high status, we should logically see the restoration of the full status benefits. Or at least, no further "enhancements" and none of this "platinum is the new gold" talk ...

LOL this makes me laugh. I know you're facetious but we all know how this story goes.

As for has it had the desired effect? QF Loyalty could tell us but then have to give us the ole Men in Black flash thingy.

Seems to be the optimum outcome for QF would have been keeping (or maybe increasing a bit) level of elites post end of xASA availability(and we won't see that until, I imagine, post July 2016 - ie: a year after the last xASA's could be flown and earned on) because people have spent to retain their status. I'd say QF would not be unhappy with a slight lowering of elites, but the yield of those elite members going up due to paying for it as opposed to DSC offers and xASA etc.

"Enhancements" are almost never in the consumer's interests

 

[OATEK]

<Snip> "Enhancements" are almost never in the consumer's interests

You can say that again!!!

 

[RichardMEL]

You can say that again!!!

"Enhancements" are almost never in the consumer's interests



you're welcome

 

[JohnK]

(again..)

except QF have *not* gotten rid of ASA's. My sister used one for a one-way MEL-SFO the other week (no she didn't tell me beforehand, not that she had to of course - her choice )... what they HAVE removed is the "ASA at classic award level" benefit (ie: awards booked in X/U/P inventory "sold" at Classic Award price yet earning points and SC per ASA rules).

there IS a difference. (to me at least )

I know. I know. Marginal any seat awards that earned SCs.

 

[samh004]

Just out of interest what was the additional co-payment on an any seat award TSV-BNE-DRW over classic awards?

About $300 all up for the return ASA ($150 each way) compared to about $33 per sector on a classic (which would be about $132 return if my maths is correct).

The KTA return was $600 as an ASA.

Also how many did that earn?

140SC each direction, so 280 for the return. Essentially meaning 280SC costed $168!

And when you do your calculations did you also take into consideration that any seat awards on that route were cheaper than the identical flights as a classic award?

Why did Qantas get rid of any seat awards when they were making a killing out of it?

Were they cheaper? I was not aware of this.

I wouldn't say they were making a killing, but they were making more than nothing out of them... as I wouldn't have flown them for any other reason.

 

[JohnK]

Were they cheaper? I was not aware of this.

I wouldn't say they were making a killing, but they were making more than nothing out of them... as I wouldn't have flown them for any other reason.

I believe that any seat award priced as TSV-DRW but a classic would price as TSV-BNE-DRW as there is no direct price.

I think you'll find Qantas weren't making very much out marginal any seat awards regardless of what some on AFF believe which is why they gone.

Just because you have some points you want to use on a marginal any seat award TSV-BNE-DRW with a double SCs offer by paying ~$300 more than a classic award to earn 560 SCs plus QFF points does not make them profitable. On the contrary.

But it's hard to get this point across which I don't understand as it's quite clear to me. Apologies for repeating myself. They were overused. Qantas got very little out of them. It was clearly a one-way street.

Could they have re-priced the cash component? Possibly but we'll never know what factor they would have used. I for one hope that it wasn't the same one that is giving away SCs and points on Jetstar flights.

 

[trixydoza]

Just because you have some points you want to use on a marginal any seat award TSV-BNE-DRW with a double SCs offer by paying ~$300 more than a classic award to earn 560 SCs plus QFF points does not make them profitable. On the contrary.

But it's hard to get this point across

It's difficult to understand why you're so obsessed about the SCs, or why you see a need for any individual fare to be "profitable" independent of the rest of the QFF program.

I could pay AUD10,683 to fly SYD-LAX F next August.

Or I could use 144,000 points and AUD468.19. OH MY FREAKIN' GOD!!! There's no way 144,000 points are worth AUD10,214.81! What an opportunity to rip off and rort QF! They'd better stop offering Classic Awards soon.

 

[samh004]

Just because you have some points you want to use on a marginal any seat award TSV-BNE-DRW with a double SCs offer by paying ~$300 more than a classic award to earn 560 SCs plus QFF points does not make them profitable. On the contrary.

But it's hard to get this point across which I don't understand as it's quite clear to me. Apologies for repeating myself. They were overused. Qantas got very little out of them. It was clearly a one-way street.

As with everyone else, I'm unsure why you have such an issue with how others used their points and cash. I don't think anyone else here cares too much how you earn your status, at least not enough to constantly point it out.

Now I don't have any illusions they weren't making huge profits from mASA's, but they're essentially the same seat as a classic award, but with a bigger cash component. Therefore if the flight could have been booked as classic + $33, or mASA + $150, I know which method (for the same seat) was making them more money.

 

[Mr_Orange]

I believe that any seat award priced as TSV-DRW but a classic would price as TSV-BNE-DRW as there is no direct price.

I think you'll find Qantas weren't making very much out marginal any seat awards regardless of what some on AFF believe which is why they gone.

Just because you have some points you want to use on a marginal any seat award TSV-BNE-DRW with a double SCs offer by paying ~$300 more than a classic award to earn 560 SCs plus QFF points does not make them profitable. On the contrary.

But it's hard to get this point across which I don't understand as it's quite clear to me. Apologies for repeating myself. They were overused. Qantas got very little out of them. It was clearly a one-way street.

Could they have re-priced the cash component? Possibly but we'll never know what factor they would have used. I for one hope that it wasn't the same one that is giving away SCs and points on Jetstar flights.

JohnK, I think you have over-stated your point a tad. Your bitterness, that often shows, about those who obtain status more easily than you is shining brighter than ever. You choose to hoard your QFF points, others, myself included, choose to use them up regularly on whatever the best value redemption is. It used to mASAs, now it is Classic Awards and upgrades. One wonders why you hoard when they are so frequently devalued by QFF. Hold on to them for much longer and the only thing you will be able to redeem them for is a single toaster, not even one each for all your family members!

 

[straitman]

I think you'll find Qantas weren't making very much out marginal any seat awards regardless of what some on AFF believe which is why they gone.

Just because you have some points you want to use on a marginal any seat award TSV-BNE-DRW with a double SCs offer by paying ~$300 more than a classic award to earn 560 SCs plus QFF points does not make them profitable. On the contrary.

But it's hard to get this point across which I don't understand as it's quite clear to me. Apologies for repeating myself. They were overused. Qantas got very little out of them. It was clearly a one-way street.

Could they have re-priced the cash component? Possibly but we'll never know what factor they would have used. I for one hope that it wasn't the same one that is giving away SCs and points on Jetstar flights.

It's difficult to understand why you're so obsessed about the SCs, or why you see a need for any individual fare to be "profitable" independent of the rest of the QFF program.

The problem with this discussion is the ideas, beliefs and hangups that people have about airline fares. It is not uncommon for quite a few seats on any specific flight to be unprofitable. Even at a low return it is better to get 'some' return for the seat than no return. It doesn't matter if the payment is all cash or cash and points it is still the airline (Qantas in this case) that sets the price of the ticket.

Look at it another way and remember that an airline seat is the ultimate perishable commodity. IF an a/c has 100 seats and 70 seats are sold at a reasonable price and that is the break even point then anything they get from the remaining seats is a win for the airline. All they need to do is price those seats at a price that will still sell the most seats. From where I'm sitting the mASA falls into this category as it comes from the very restricted U class award bucket. IF they believe that they can sell them for a higher price then why not do so?

 

[Newk]

The problem with this discussion is the ideas, beliefs and hangups that people have about airline fares. It is not uncommon for quite a few seats on any specific flight to be unprofitable. Even at a low return it is better to get 'some' return for the seat than no return. It doesn't matter if the payment is all cash or cash and points it is still the airline (Qantas in this case) that sets the price of the ticket.

Look at it another way and remember that an airline seat is the ultimate perishable commodity. IF an a/c has 100 seats and 70 seats are sold at a reasonable price and that is the break even point then anything they get from the remaining seats is a win for the airline. All they need to do is price those seats at a price that will still sell the most seats. From where I'm sitting the mASA falls into this category as it comes from the very restricted U class award bucket. IF they believe that they can sell them for a higher price then why not do so?

How could anyone disagree with this? And, really that should be the end of the discussion, although I know it won't be.

 

[trixydoza]

an airline seat is the ultimate perishable commodity

And that doesn't even take loyalty programs into account. If you only sell one award seat at $xx_ but its very existence influences the behaviour of multiple people who had hoped to get that seat, you have a multiplier effect that makes the "profitability" of that particular award essentially irrelevant.

Or in bullet-point form:

- Airlines only care about overall profitability

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

I wonder had JASA's continued how much more money people would have spent with QF on paid QF flights in ordee to enjoy the fruits of their labour like F Lounge access when travelling on QF, JQ or OW.

I guess more importantly, how much business is now going to *A or VA and partner airlines that QF would've retained had JASA's stayed?

Has'nt affected me....NOT... Have racked up 60SC this year to date, was Platinum, now Gold, Next year ? My wife & I are going to BNE in September on Virgin in Business Class. I just look at the price and use points if I want the benefits of a Business ticket...have not missed out yet....ALWAYS used to fly QF including O/S but not anymore.

 

[samh004]

Has'nt affected me....NOT... Have racked up 60SC this year to date, was Platinum, now Gold, Next year ? My wife & I are going to BNE in September on Virgin in Business Class. I just look at the price and use points if I want the benefits of a Business ticket...have not missed out yet....ALWAYS used to fly QF including O/S but not anymore.

You might like to update your profile then, as you're currently listed as "QFF PLAT"

 

[MEL_Traveller]

From where I'm sitting the mASA falls into this category as it comes from the very restricted U class award bucket. IF they believe that they can sell them for a higher price then why not do so?

Exactly - the mASA was an award seat that the airline didn't think it could sell anyway - hence it was made available for redemption using points. That's why not all flights have award seats available - because the airline can sell them (or thinks they can).

 

[trixydoza]

That's why not all flights have award seats available - because the airline can sell them (or thinks they can).

Or thinks that making too many award seats available in general might reduce the probability of some people buying a revenue seat.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

You might like to update your profile then, as you're currently listed as "QFF PLAT"

thanks for pointing that out...will do

 

[JohnK]

JohnK, I think you have over-stated your point a tad. Your bitterness, that often shows, about those who obtain status more easily than you is shining brighter than ever.

You are right. Time to let people mourn in peace.

You choose to hoard your QFF points, others, myself included, choose to use them up regularly on whatever the best value redemption is. It used to mASAs, now it is Classic Awards and upgrades. One wonders why you hoard when they are so frequently devalued by QFF. Hold on to them for much longer and the only thing you will be able to redeem them for is a single toaster, not even one each for all your family members!

You are right again. Unfortunately can't use them for what I want and I have no time fly anywhere else. Hoping Qantas is still around in a few years when I have more time.

 

[dfcatch]

What you are saying Qantas were on a money spinner in any seat awards and prematurely terminated it?

Just out of interest what was the additional co-payment on an any seat award TSV-BNE-DRW over classic awards? Also how many did that earn? And when you do your calculations did you also take into consideration that any seat awards on that route were cheaper than the identical flights as a classic award?

Why did Qantas get rid of any seat awards when they were making a killing out of it?

No it wasn't a money spinner. But they were U class Classic Award seats that they were prepared to give away at the Classic Points level.

The only difference was that QF issued Points/SCs for the mASA redemption. But - they received a higher co-pay to compensate for this.

Yes - there were some sweet-spot anomalies with distance table calculations vis-a-vis Classic vs mASA.

They weren't making a killing, but they weren't losing either.

I'd say QF would not be unhappy with a slight lowering of elites, but the yield of those elite members going up due to paying for it as opposed to DSC offers and xASA etc.

This is where the analysis (particularly by QF) is flawed.

The assumption is that those using DSCs or mASAs would have flown those exact same flights but paid full J/F price (in the absence of mASAs).

As has been demonstrated in this thread - it's just patently not true.

Those passengers, generally speaking, would have either:

- redeemed Classics (if points-rich)
- purchased discount Y fares (if cash poor)
- flown other carriers (either on BFOD or better value premium product on OS carriers).

There's nothing wrong with more people having status.

Unless they're using the flashy card to get laid, they can only redeem benefits (eg. Lounge access, priority etc) when continuing to fly QF (ie. Spending MORE money with QF).

Don't fly more with QF, flashy card becomes a coaster.