Drive-By Pick-Up Penalty at Sydney International

[JohnK]

I was waiting by the new multi-storey car park, my daughter drove into the car park, stopped to pick me up and drove straight to the exit. As we hadn't bothered to pay for the parking ticket at one of the pay-machines, we drove to one of the manned booths. My daughter gave the guy the ticket, he took one look at it and waved us through without charge.

I wonder if others have had this experience?

I have known about not being charged anything if you have made a mistake and you drive through the car park to the exit immediately but have never been game enough to try and have someone pick me up in the car park. It is just as easy to get picked up outside the car park entrance and then change your mind and turn around.

 

[ethernet]

I believe we have the esteemed wisdom of Lord Denning MR in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd to thank for this state of affairs - now I butcher things- it is not a contract, without being able to read and digest the conditions of entry, that if you bothered to read them are disturbing - no care no responsibility.

Try back backing at a car park entrance - nearly impossible - and that fine print of the ticket wont save them either Contract law was so long ago.

I notice legal smart alec's regularly deface/modify car park entrance signs - crossing out the word 'not' is a favorite, as is changing 'no' to 'all'.

That sounds better for disabled persons, even those who drive a new Porsche Boxster.

 

[yo yo ma]

My daughter gave the guy the ticket, he took one look at it and waved us through without charge.

I wonder if others have had this experience?

I suspect your daughter may be quite attractive

 

[Hvr]

And yet another way they make money on the parking at Sydney AP:

MONEY-MAKING machine Macquarie Bank is cashing in on summer - charging people extra at Sydney airport to park in the shade.
The bank that ate Sydney with its toll roads and parking charges has added to its already sky-high long-term parking at the domestic airport.
For an extra $5 a day, travellers can keep their car out of direct sunlight.

Heck got to give them an A for effort.

 

[JohnK]

If I remember correctly this was the case a couple of years ago when I was doing some status runs trying to get to Platinum....

 

[mcm72]

John,

Where abouts are the spots, you speak of, where u can be picked up , ,dont mind a little walk , rather that , then my parents have to pay to pick me up ,,

Thanks

MCM

 

[kkk]

hi kiwikroozer, did you end up paying for the fine ?

Has anyone else had this (or a similar) experience?
Any advice??

On Jan 11th, my wife was to pick up a friend who was flying into Sydney International Airport Terminal from NZ.
At the prearranged time, she drove through the DEPARTURE DROP-OFF area (to avoid the bottleneck at the pick-up level below). She stopped for no more than 30 seconds to pick up her friend and load the luggage into the car. She did not leave her vehicle at any point, and no-one spoke to her. They then continued on their way out of the airport.

Today, completely out of the blue, we have received an infringement notice from the Airport Authority in the mail, demanding she pay a fine of $132.00 - for stopping in an area where they claim there are 'NO STOPPING' signs on display.

Okay - from memory, I don't think there ARE any actual NO STOPPING signs in place along Departure Drive, are there? There is a signed time limit for dropping off, but she was totally within that time limit, only being there for half a minute.
The only technicality was that she was picking up rather than dropping off...

Has anyone else recieved such a fine?
Is it legal, in view of the lack of signage the letter states does exist there?
Does the airport authority have the power to enforce such a fine?
...Should we fight it???!!!

I'd love to hear from others who have had similar experiences, and to learn how you dealt with it.
;-)>
Kiwikroozer

 

[JohnK]

Where abouts are the spots, you speak of, where u can be picked up , ,dont mind a little walk , rather that , then my parents have to pay to pick me up

As I mentioned earlier in the thread the closest one is to wait outside the entrance to the international car park then after the pickup change your mind and do not enter the car park. There was nothing to indicate that pickups were not allowed or any "No Standing" or "No Stopping" signs. You can even be cheeky after the pickup and enter the car park and exit right away as you were not aware there was a charge for parking and they do not charge you for driving through the car park.

My favourite spot is parking at either at Kogarah Golf Club or outside St George Rowing Club. No more than a 15 minute walk to international terminal and again no time limit on the amount of time you can park.

 

[hingo]

I came across this little gem: Airports (Control of On-Airport
Activities) Regulations 1997 - Regulation 156:
168 No parking signs
(1) The driver of a vehicle must not stop on a length of road or in an
area to which a no parking sign applies, unless the driver:
(a) is dropping off, or picking up, passengers or goods; and
(b) does not leave the vehicle unattended; and
(c) completes the dropping off, or picking up, of the passengers
or goods, and drives on, as soon as possible and, in any
case, within the required time after stopping.
Offence provision.
(2) For this rule, a driver leaves a vehicle unattended if the driver
leaves the vehicle so the driver is over 3 metres from the closest
point of the vehicle.
(3) In this rule:
required time means:
(a) 2 minutes; or
(b) if information on or with the sign indicates another time—
the indicated time.

Does this mean that we can drop off/pick up passengers at NO PARKING areas as long as the the conditions are complied with? Any legal eagles who can clarify this?

 

[medhead]

I came across this little gem: Airports (Control of On-Airport
Activities) Regulations 1997 - Regulation 156:
168 No parking signs
(1) The driver of a vehicle must not stop on a length of road or in an
area to which a no parking sign applies, unless the driver:
(a) is dropping off, or picking up, passengers or goods; and
(b) does not leave the vehicle unattended; and
(c) completes the dropping off, or picking up, of the passengers
or goods, and drives on, as soon as possible and, in any
case, within the required time after stopping.
Offence provision.

The dropping off or picking up in part a) would certainly suggest they can't limit the departure level to drop off only. Be interesting to know how this turned out.

 

[Dave Noble]

The dropping off or picking up in part a) would certainly suggest they can't limit the departure level to drop off only. Be interesting to know how this turned out.

There's a difference between no stopping and no parking. are the signs not "no stopping " rather than "no parking"

Dave

 

[medhead]

There's a difference between no stopping and no parking. are the signs not "no stopping " rather than "no parking"

Hence it was only a suggestion and my interest in how this matter turned out. Usually regulations etc. are pretty much to a formula. It could be that the No stopping regulations have a similar set of limitations. But then I'm not going to bother getting off my backside to look it up.

 

[Alanslegal]

Ok, here is a photo I took last week of the signs at the INT departures area, It says;-

NO STOPPING - Vehicles setting down passengers excepted. Drive must remain with vehicle (fines apply).

So guess you can't even stop to pick up even if its 2 seconds

 

[Wannabee]

G'day there,

Not a great first post but here goes.

Yes I think it is pretty poor that there are no free pick up areas (like the domestic terminal). It is money gouging at its best forcing people picking up passengers to go into a car park that you must pay for.

My question is, is the sign actually lawful? The area in question is a road or road related area and therefore traffic signs must conform to RTA standards. A quick view of the following RTA site:

EDIT: You will have to find it as apparently I am not allowed to post links

Search for 'No Stopping' signs and low and behold the sign in question does not raise a mention.

Also it says:
The database contains details of Guide (examples only), Regulatory, Temporary and Warning signs. It provides details such as:

• the currency of the sign (Non-standard signs should not be used in NSW),
• available sizes,
• sign materials, and
• the actual sign design drawing

I'm no lawyer but certainly food for thought. Me? I still do it and pull up before the cameras...

 

[NM]

So guess you can't even stop to pick up even if its 2 seconds

You need to practice the rolling pick-up technique

Its not too hard with the NM bus and its electric doors. Can even open the tailgate while rolling for luggage pick-up. Now I wonder how that would stand up in court?

 

[serfty]

G'day there,

Not a great first post but here goes.
... . A quick view of the following RTA site:

EDIT: You will have to find it as apparently I am not allowed to post links ...

G'day Wannabee, welcome to AFF.

One way to have a claytons link is to post it in longhand.

e.g. www(dot)frequentflyer(dot)com(dot)au or www . frequentflyer . com . au

 

[Alanslegal]

Somewhere in legislation, yes somewhere amongst the thousands of pieces of law we have, that allows the RTA to release registration information to SYDMacAirport and vice versa, so that any infringements can be suitably sent to the infringing motor vehicle owner. Again there are laws which give authority to private SYDMacAirport parking clowns to issue infringments occuring on intra-airport property & roadways. Vehicle details sent to RTA for action.

There is some financial gain for the RTA / State Governement where they would receive some part of those fines issued. Thus the collections are handled by the State Debt Recovery Office.

This type of partnership also exists for many other agencies such as councils, where councils now employ parking rangers who have authority to issue parking infringement fines for example, the council and state govt share in the infringment money pot. The councils make extra $$$ and the State govt can boast of having more police officers on the beat catching real criminals rather than issuing fines for those overstaying 2minutes.

Ok, I found it and now need to clarify my points.

It's called the SEINS program (which is short for Self-Enforcing Infringement Notice Scheme) and its administered by the NSW Office of State Revenue.

SEINS basically allows other government agencies, authorities, councils and even private organisations to issue penalty infringement notices for certain types of offences. The legislative authority is listed within the Fines Act NSW 1996 and per Schedule 1:- FINES ACT 1996 - SCHEDULE 1

Under those different legislation, the respective authority can appoint an "authorised officer" to issue penalty notice. For eg. Local Government Act allows councils to appoint Council Parking Officers; in the case of Road Laws, the Minister for Roads would have authority to delegate and in this instance delegates these authority to the Sydney Airport "parking guys".

Authorised Officer undergoes training at the OSR to assist with their duties.

When they finish training, an ''authorised officer'' can issue a penalty notices. Per requirement, the original copy is forwared to the OSR, a duplicate copy is kept by the authority for future reference and auditing, and the last copy is given to the alleged offender.

OSR - can access personal information in its course of duties and as declared allowable by the Privacy Commissioner NSW - and will issue penalty reminder/warning letters, review initial appeal letters, and the collection of fines and transfer of monies.

The OSR has effectively commercialised its services and will enter into contractual agreement for its SEINS program with various organisations. And for OSR's service, they will deduct a FEE for each infringement notice it administers. So say if a parking fine is $100 and issued by Sydney Aiport, they will (say) deduct $30 for their services, and send $70 to Sydney Airport.

The SEINS scheme is continually audited by not only the OSR but the Ombudsmans Office and ICAC.

I hope this helps.

 

[hingo]

I agree with Dave Noble that there's a difference between NO PARKING and NO STANDING and the Regulation in my original post referred to NO PARKING signs that allow drop off/pick up of goods & passenger (as soon as possible, within 2 mins or such other time on the sign if any) and driver to be within a certain distance from the vehicle.

The question is whether the No Parking sign in the photo posted by Alanslegal (presumably one of MacAirports' own design) is legit or not?

Where are the other NO PARKING areas? (The area just past the drop off zone?)

BTW Syd Int Airport is Federal territory so I don't know whether NSW RTA and OSR have a role to play here.

 

[Alanslegal]

BTW Syd Int Airport is Federal territory so I don't know whether NSW RTA and OSR have a role to play here.

Yes the airport itself is within commonwealth jurisdiction but as with roadways like many other common property eg. the Murray-Darling River areas, there can be tangible relationships within commonwealth, state and local authorities.

There has to be some enforcement in place, and this is where it is very likely the OSR would be involved at a local level and and be able to administer the fines process (warning,reminders,reviews, payment of fine,transfer of monies). If there was no enforcement, the fines issued by SYDAirport are useless and people will do as they please.

The OP stated he received a notice from SYDAirport in the mail, I would guess a copy went to OSR for administration, a copy is also kept by SYDairport for future reference / audity and I take the logical view that the fine was not paid a reminder is issued by OSR and actioned so on.

 

[medhead]

BTW Syd Int Airport is Federal territory so I don't know whether NSW RTA and OSR have a role to play here.

All road rules, including the design of signs, are derived from the australian road rules, which are uniform through the country including Commonwealth. There shouldn't be any issue with the NSW regulations applying equally at the airport. (of course, the states try to have exceptions to this e.g. in South Oz they try to enforce tinting laws that don't match the Oz Road Rules or maybe Oz Design Rules)

The question is whether the sign shown is in the correct form as laid out in the road rules. I don't know but it certainly looks different to other no stopping signs I've seen around. The other possibly dodgy aspect is the sign is "No Stopping except...." Sorry is it No Stopping or not. The except seems to contradict the No stopping.

Anyway, I probably totally wrong in my opinion and thoughts.