Drive-By Pick-Up Penalty at Sydney International

[lettej]

So, has anyone not paid one of these, and, if so, what happened?

I ask because normal State issued infringements are dealt with by the State Infringement Processing Bureau. This one isn't.

Also, normal infringements give the receiver the choice of paying or electing to have the matter heard by a court. This one doesn't.

Finally, unpaid state infringements ultimately lead to the cancellation of your driver's license. Do these?

Alternatively, is this just a private business tricking people into paying when they really can't enforce these fines except to seek a small debt summons? That is expensive and time consuming and probably not worth their while.

So, again I ask, has anyone seen what actually happens if one of these doesn't get paid?

 

[burmans]

Had a chat to a lawyer friend on this as I received one of these Parking Infringement Notices for no parking when in fact all I did was pickup. His advice on how I word my letter was fairly clear, it's the regulations that provide the power, not the signs.

He also suggested signage which does not have the regulations to support, may breach the Trade Practice Act (misleading and deceptive conduct) and/or be fraud. I have made this suggestion to the Sydney Airport people, will see how I go. Should note part of my suggestion here is because they have repeatedly said to me that they issue Parking Infringement Notices based on the signs when my suggestion that they actually need regulatory backing. What I have asked is whether they are asserting they have the right to restrict pickups and dropoffs when the regulation appear to specifically allow these.

While early days and reluctant to suggest this is necessarily fraudulent if they are making false claims with a view to instead push users into their own paid parking, this argument appears it may have legal legs.

Of course all this was just a chat so can't rely on it but am enjoying the argument. Sudney Airport have gone very quiet on me so suggest the Parking Infringement boys have refered this to their legal dept.

 

[burmans]

The SEINS scheme is continually audited by not only the OSR but the Ombudsmans Office and ICAC.

I hope this helps.

Interested to see the Ombudsman on this list, does this mean if you have a complaint against the issuance of the Parking Infringement Notice (e.g. they have issued a No Parking notice claiming pickup which is specifically allowed under the regulation) you can complain to them? Seems to me of the 3 above they are most likely to provide a satisfactory outcome, certainly don't see much chance with the OSR.

 

[lettej]

Thank you Burmans. Are you planning to pay your fine or write a letter? If so, could I borrow your wording so I get it right?

I really don't want to pay them any money as the whole airport is just an expensive money making machine that abuses its captive audience.

Thanks

 

[djfuzz]

Slightly OT, as this relates to Melbourne...

As far as I am aware, at Melbourne airport there is a single 1 minute pickup zone on the DJ, and probably something similar on the JQ side - all the rest of the empty space designated as 'bus zones'.

I arrived back from LAX recently waiting to be picked up from the DJ side. One of the officers asked if I was being picked up and told me to wait by the 1 minute area - I did. There was a car sitting pretty in that area for about 5 minutes, while a number of other cars came by and stood in the bus zone, while the officer did nothing. Instead the officer came back to me and reminded me of the fact that if my pickup arrived in the bus zone she would have to issue a fine - so I pointed out to her the fact that at the rate things were going, I wouldn't be able to be picked up at all from the 1 minute zone because no one was hurrying along the person already parked there - no response.

Inevitably, it was still occupied when my pickup arrived a few minutes later, who naturally pulled over at the next available empty space up ahead - which is all I can assume they interpreted my frantic hand gestures to mean. With nothing else to do for want of avoiding actually holding up a bus (none in sight by the way), I ran to the car and threw my bags in immediately. As I tried to get inside and hurry along, sure enough the parking naz_ is right behind me writing away on their pad - while the same car remains in the one minute zone and another five or so other cars are sitting in the bus zone I was told to stay away from.

I have no problem with these people doing their jobs, and will do all I can to comply with them - but I have a problem with their blatant inconsistency and the fact that they basically targeted me for a fine despite the fact that I did all I could in the situation to comply with their directions. And the end result is that we were stopped in a bus zone for perhaps five seconds, hampering access to no one - while someone was clearly hampering our own access in blatant violation of the stopping rules.

Obviously I don't know whether this is worth the hassle until I get a fine in the post, but I was pretty upset about their behaviour - price gouging aside, being targeted for trying to do the right thing (albeit unsuccessfully, but unobtrusively) is pretty frustrating, while they turn a blind eye to people deliberately flaunting the rules.

 

[fortymilliondaggers]

"Ever gone fishing?"
"Yeah"
"Ever catch 'all' the fish?"

 

[djfuzz]

"Ever gone fishing?"
"Yeah"
"Ever catch 'all' the fish?"

Yeah, I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Obviously they're not going to get everyone - that's not the issue. This officer basically sat on my cough (despite me trying to do what she wanted) while ignoring everyone else that flouting the rules for at least 10 minutes prior because she knew that as long as she let the people stay for longer in the one minute zone, she could sting me.

That's not even revenue raising, it's just being a ****.

 

[NM]

There was a car sitting pretty in that area for about 5 minutes ...

That car was probably owned by the parking officers and parked there to ensure they managed to get their daily quota of parking infringements issued.

 

[Warks]

Haven't delved through this whole thread but does anyone know if you can still pick up in SYD T3 for Qantas (arrivals)? I thought I read somewhere that you had no choice but to park and pay MacBankWnk $10 for 5 minutes' parking.:evil:

 

[Dave Noble]

Haven't delved through this whole thread but does anyone know if you can still pick up in SYD T3 for Qantas (arrivals)? I thought I read somewhere that you had no choice but to park and pay MacBankWnk $10 for 5 minutes' parking.

Yes you can; the person to be picked up must be at the pickup point; no waiting for them to turn up

Dave

 

[Flashback]

Haven't delved through this whole thread but does anyone know if you can still pick up in SYD T3 for Qantas (arrivals)? I thought I read somewhere that you had no choice but to park and pay MacBankWnk $10 for 5 minutes' parking.:evil:

You're thinking of T1! T3 pickups are no problem, but must be straight in/out.

 

[Warks]

You're thinking of T1! T3 pickups are no problem, but must be straight in/out.

I knew about T1 but I was wondering if the Thought Police had extended their realm to T3. It would not surprise me. They give you the bum's rush very quickly there. Especially when there is no one waiting to get in!

Looks like my usual tactic of hanging around Krispy Kreme waiting for the call will still work. Good for their business!

 

[Flashback]

I knew about T1 but I was wondering if the Thought Police had extended their realm to T3. It would not surprise me. They give you the bum's rush very quickly there. Especially when there is no one waiting to get in!

Looks like my usual tactic of hanging around Krispy Kreme waiting for the call will still work. Good for their business!

When Skoogle and I were picking up anat0l and Bundy Bear we decided to see how long we would last, I think we sat there for 8 minutes without being given the push along :mrgreen:

 

[Alanslegal]

Looks like my usual tactic of hanging around Krispy Kreme waiting for the call will still work. Good for their business!

Or the new Macca's

 

[JohnK]

Haven't delved through this whole thread but does anyone know if you can still pick up in SYD T3 for Qantas (arrivals)? I thought I read somewhere that you had no choice but to park and pay MacBankWnk $10 for 5 minutes' parking.:evil:

You can still get picked up at SYD T3. My father has waited for me ~5 minutes and not had a problem. It is not always patrolled but when it is patrolled I have seen them tell people to move on after a few minutes but all you do is drive around and come back again....

 

[Warks]

Worked out fine today. They were too busy hassling the taxi drivers.

I got my ma to call when they landed. Was a full 25 minutes before she emerged outside being helped by a lovely FA. As I was at Glebe when I got the call I managed to get there just at the right time. Well I waited long enough to start to think I might get the hurry-up but then she appeared.

So no KK this time! Good on a hot summer's day out there sitting in their AC having a choccy milkshake. Don't go much on the donuts though. Would end up larger than a house if I ate them every day.

 

[mbrdg]

We received a Reminder Notice only - with 7 days to pay the $132. No sign of the original Infringement Notice so I have no details of how to challenge the infringement or what the consequences of non payment might be.

Anyone had a similar experience - is this a tactic to 'scare' me into paying up or is this really down to Australia Post?

 

[beardoc]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread the closest one is to wait outside the entrance to the international car park then after the pickup change your mind and do not enter the car park. There was nothing to indicate that pickups were not allowed or any "No Standing" or "No Stopping" signs. You can even be cheeky after the pickup and enter the car park and exit right away as you were not aware there was a charge for parking and they do not charge you for driving through the car park.

My favourite spot is parking at either at Kogarah Golf Club or outside St George Rowing Club. No more than a 15 minute walk to international terminal and again no time limit on the amount of time you can park.

I am usually no more than about 20 minutes to pick up from the airport outside of peak hour, so I usually just wait at home for the call, and as soon as they're off the plane, I head down and wait.

You are entitled to go into the car park and then refuse the terms and conditions and leave - this is usually built into the terms and conditions of the car park ticket. It's necessary when, like T1's parking setup, you are forced to enter, quite unexpectedly as you drive in to the airport and suddenly find that you're entering a car park, with no way to exit other than through the car park. Usually they allow a period of time like 5 minutes or so. If your pick up happens to be there, well, you should be able to get through this okay.

I've been looking at T1 on Google Maps and notice that if you drive towards the car park gates there's a road that goes to the right of where you're driving, and looking at this from the satellite view, it seems possible that you could do a circuit. However, I haven't seen the signage on the ground recently that might prevent you from doing this.

t1 - Google Maps

Is it signed against you doing this? I'm sure it is, but can't see anything from satellite!

 

[JohnK]

Is it signed against you doing this? I'm sure it is, but can't see anything from satellite!

I hope discussing this here does not cause it to become illegal.

My memory is fading as I have not have to use this for a while but you can bypass the entry to the car park, circuit if you prefer, by turning right at the building short of the car park but in theory should not turn right again to go around the circuit. I was waiting in the little car park in front of those 2 round objects next the building and was picked up and then went through the car park.

As far as I remember there are no signs mentioning I cannot wait outside the car park and be picked up. If you try hard enough you can almost get back onto the departures road and exit out of the airport that way but that would be a tricky manoeuvre. Also tricky to go south onto Airport Drive unless going through the car park or departures road. It might be a good idea to go back and do some more surveillance for future reference....

 

[FL360]

Today I did a pick up at SYD T1, I parked (around) there and successfully went in the terminal to pick the pax up and leave without paying a cent. (and without seeing someone getting close to my car and book me)

Me and a mate went to pick up two other friends. I did some surveillance.

1. I drop off my mate first at the departure area, so he can walk to the arrival level to greet my friends who are going to come out. There are about four parking officers on that area checking and I saw someone have one pax picked up and he started the booking process immediately.

[As a note, when you drive in there are clear signs saying you can't pick up, since it is their private road I guess they have the right to book you.]

2. I then drive to (around) that area mentioned by JohnK, parked there, even left the car there, then walk (about 5 mins) across the car park to the arrival area to wait and pick up my friends, and we walk back to my car and drive through T1 arrival and leave...
[the area where I park is without any signs saying I can't park/stop/enter there, however the place where I left my car is a normal 15mins parking area, but as for any other street parking, if you stay in the car it is not parking]

3. at T1 arrival they have one officer checking to make sure the rental car returns go to the right place, and warn people that they can't pick up, however I did see he let one car with a disable permit on to pick up, may be this is a trick. And some other drivers just played dumb and pick up anyway...

[as a note, when I drive through T1 arrival the officer did not pay attention to me because I am not picking up anyone....]

I hope discussing this here does not cause it to become illegal.

My memory is fading as I have not have to use this for a while but you can bypass the entry to the car park, circuit if you prefer, by turning right at the building short of the car park but in theory should not turn right again to go around the circuit. I was waiting in the little car park in front of those 2 round objects next the building and was picked up and then went through the car park.

As far as I remember there are no signs mentioning I cannot wait outside the car park and be picked up. If you try hard enough you can almost get back onto the departures road and exit out of the airport that way but that would be a tricky manoeuvre. Also tricky to go south onto Airport Drive unless going through the car park or departures road. It might be a good idea to go back and do some more surveillance for future reference....