Comparison of BA v QF First and Business Classes

[Chris_Leo]

Hi

I am considering redeeming my QFF points for a first class ticket from SYD to LHR mid next year, and was hoping that there would be award tickets for the A380 flights starting in January 09.

Unfortunately, there are no A380 first class award tickets available throughout 2009, but there are several first class and business class award tickets on BA. I have no experience with BA's first or club world classes, and was wondering how it stacked up against the corresponding Qantas product based on practical experience.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Chris

 

[simongr]

Hi Chris
I have flown both QF and BA on the 744 on QF and the 777 and 747 on BA in F and J - who would have thought I would be writing that a few years ago :shock:.
Just for context I will say that I am biased against QF J as I find the cabin crew inconsistent and seemingly resentful that people are travelling in J.

So for comparisons here are a few thoughts on Hard product, food, AVOD and crew:

First

Hard product - virtually the same for me. Both are lie flat beds with ample space. If you are able to score the 747 on BA that is a nicer environment as you turn left on entry. If on the 777 and flying from SYD with only 1 aerobridge you get the other 400 pax pushing past you on boarding.

Food - again much of a muchness. QF have just made some major revisions to the food which hopefully has toned down Neil Perry's "asian inspired" influences. I had some amazing lamb shanks on BA recently - truly lovely.

AVOD - QF wins when it is working - BA's AVOD is nothing very special.

Crew - BA were fantastic with me and mrssimongr when she was ill on our last flights - truly amazing. QF - I have had some fantastic crews on QF - mostly the guys. A couple of flights with female cabin crew have not felt as special. They seemed rushed and flustered and focussed on other pax - maybe they did not think I was smart enough...

Overall I think both F products are comparable - QF will in if an A380 is available but if not then both are good.

Business

Hard product - BA edges this for me. Even if you get the older J seat on BA it wins as it is lie flat rather than sloping. I am 6' 2" so the larger space on BA is better.

Food - BA again wins out for me. The Neil Perry menu in J on QF is often quite dire whereas on BA I find the food generally adequate.

AVOD - If you get the older J product on BA then if QF's works then QF wins. However QF's lack of reliability can be a major issue.

Crew - this is the biggest failing in my experience. Sure there are some great and good crews on QF but I always board QF with that sense of apprehension you get after a night out at Uni when you wonder whether you are waking up with a angel or a pig - sadly for QF more often than not it has been a pig for me.

Overall I would be more confident boarding a BA J flight than QF if I was not boarding an A380...

 

[Keith009]

I have had the opposite experience to simongr when it comes to the J product. Apart from agreeing that the hard product on BA can be superior for some, I have found the QF J product to be better in almost every other way.

I have found QF crew to be consistently excellent in every single way; efficient, v warm, charming and friendly and the epitome of down to earth Australian hospitality. BA crew are less consistent and range from great on a good day, to perfunctory, and on bad days - downright appalling.

Catering wise I have found the QF wine list to be more inspired than the BA ones. Maybe because I'm pro local produce. And I have more often than not found something I like to eat on the more creative and well thought out fusion-esque menu on QF, than the rather staid menu on BA.

AVOD - i like both content wise. I can find v smart and intelligent non-mainstream British productions on the BA IFe, as well as local favourites on the QF IFE. QF's systems are less reliable, however I've also managed to crash my system quite a few times on the new BA system.

Sadly I do not fly enough of F to make a valid comparison.

Bear in mind though that you're comparing 2 of the finest airlines in the world and will have a great time whichever you choose.

 

[simongr]

Also remember I am English and living in Australia so like the Aussies getting onto QF after their backpacking tour of Europe feel like they are almost home already - I get onto BA after having generally spent time with my family in the UK and/or Cyprus so it is like I am carrying a little piece of home with me.

 

[Chris_Leo]

Guys, thanks for the prompt responses. Very interesting observations from both of you.

I guess it does come down to the fact that whichever airline I choose, it should be pretty good in first class, regardless. Being an Aussie, I am inclined to go with Qantas, also due to familiarity, but who knows, i could be tempted to BA, especially if there are no A380 awards available in the near future.

I must say that the new club world fit-out on BA could trump Qantas' A380 first class. It is practically a suite with a fully flat bed. Now if worse comes to worse, I had to choose between Qantas or BA business class, it would be a no brainer.

Cheers
Chris

 

[simongr]

I must say that the new club world fit-out on BA could trump Qantas' A380 first class. It is practically a suite with a fully flat bed. Now if worse comes to worse, I had to choose between Qantas or BA business class, it would be a no brainer.

Cheers
Chris

I think the gulf between BA new Jand QF A380 F is massive. In BA J upstairs you get 4 across - in QF A380F you get three. One is a suite and the other just a lie flat bed.

I really dont think the two are comparable.

 

[Keith009]

I have always sought to explain why I'd pick QF J in preference to the alternatives in my trip reports. This is my most recent review, of QF30 HKG-MEL in J:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...e-more-rtw-hurrah-oh-14648-11.html#post196903
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...e-more-rtw-hurrah-oh-14648-11.html#post196904
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...e-more-rtw-hurrah-oh-14648-12.html#post196905

I don't only think they're superior just because they happen to be Australian although that itself plays a not insignificant part (Australian wines, local IFE content, the use of local brands on the menus etc), it's the comfort in knowing that I'd always be treated extremely well and having everything the way I like 'em.

 

[Chris_Leo]

Wow...what awesome posts!!!

I do have to say, reading your travel log has inspired me to be pro-Qantas again. Honestly, I have never really had an unpleasant experience in QF Business class. Each time is pretty much the same (which is not necessarily a bad thing when you think about how random some airlines are with their service), and meets with my overall expectations. The only main issues I have with QF business class is:

(i) if you sit in a window seat, you can easily be blocked from leaving your seat when your neighbour puts their seat into the sleep position!!! (unless, as was the case on one occasion, you were lucky enough to get the upper deck exit row seats)

(ii) the non-flat bed seat (which granted has been replaced with the advent of the A380, but still, there are a lot of the old skybeds still in service)

I was hoping QF First would resolve these problems. Apart from that, I can concur that service has always been fantastic (in comparison to economy), and the food/wines amazing.

 

[NM]

Your chances of finding Qantas award seats in F to Europe are almost zero, especially if you are seeking more than one seat at a time. And the chances of finding F award seats on QF are also low, but not impossible.

There are be good availability using BA, but you may need to break the trip in SIn or BKK to get availability through to London.

Also consider Cathay Pacific, but they only offer F from MEL now. CX award availability does not show in the QF FF web site, so you need to call and book via an agent and that will cost an additional 2500 points/ticket.

I would take whatever flights are available between QF, BA and CX in F or J. All will be good. I expect availability will be the deciding factor for you.

 

[Chris_Leo]

Hmmm...I didn't even consider Cathay! Interesting idea, and actually, I can imagine Cathay being better than BA, especially since the overhaul of all their travel classes recently.

I shall call QF Service Center and see what can be done.

Thanks again
Chris

 

[Anna]

On BA, I have encountered rude and surly flight attendants even in J. On QF in J, the flight attendants have always been polite at a minimum, and usually far better than just polite.

I would never fly BA if I could fly QF. In fact I would never fly BA if there was any decent alternative.

 

[jamesatfish]

Your chances of finding Qantas award seats in F to Europe are almost zero, especially if you are seeking more than one seat at a time. And the chances of finding F award seats on QF are also low, but not impossible.

There are be good availability using BA, but you may need to break the trip in SIn or BKK to get availability through to London.

This has been my experience also - when booking RTW award tickets (even at the maximum ~360 days in advance) and as a WP I can only get BA flights SYD-LHR, but never any problems getting a QF award ticket to/from the USA at similar notice. Note we are always booking either 2 or 4 award tickets.

As to the difference between QF and BA First - if you are flying alone then the screen divider that BA have installed between the two centre First seats is handy, but as I'm usually travelling with my wife I don't miss the divider when flying QF. Otherwise the seats & layouts are basically identical as others have mentioned - though I have noticed that some QF aircraft have retrofitted slightly larger AVOD screens (you can tell because they don't fit flush into the seat when stowed away).

QF First certainly solves the non-flat Skybed issue with QF J - which most of the reason why I choose to fly QF F over QF J. The A380 will be interesting given the J bed is 90% of the current 744 F bed, but until I get to spend 13+ hours in one I'll reserve my judgement.

As the defining factor in First travel, however, I enjoy the Dom Perignon that QF serve more than the Bollinger served by BA...

When flying BA J you also need to consider that on some aircraft configurations you might end up sitting backwards - which I actually find handy (especially if you are travelling with a business colleague in which case the two tray tables make a good airborne meeting space) but some people find disconcerting.

 

[Skyring]

Cathay Pacific gets my vote for Business Class - I'm sure their First product is awesome, but I've never been that far forward on longhaul.

CX seem to have more crew per passenger, and emptier premium cabins. Maybe on the Australian-England run the passengers tend to favour their national carriers and fill them up.

I usually get spoilt on CX. Sometimes I've had some really excellent CSMs - the Filipina ladies are wonderful and warm.

Seats in J are comfortable. Not quite lieflat, but pretty close. The AVOD is good, but I prefer QF in that respect - when it is working.

Meals are always a production in CX. Food's great with plenty of choice. Work on an hour plus from first drink to last praline. Hot snacks served continuously in between mealtimes. Sometimes hard to sleep because of savoury odours wafting in from a few seats away.

Big bonus is use of the superb Cathay Pacific lounges in Hong Kong. I try to arrange a few hours there because it's so very pleasant.

 

[NM]

Seats in J are comfortable. Not quite lieflat, but pretty close. The AVOD is good, but I prefer QF in that respect - when it is working.

CX is rolling out their flat herringbone layout J seats into their A330 and 744 aircraft. Most CX flights to SYD are now the new config. I have also had the new config from London and to Tokyo. In another year, when the OP is looking to travel, there will be even greater availability of the new CX J.

 

[vaccav]

I have done quite a few business class flights on Qantas and BA and would make the following observations.

- Both are good.
- Since Qantas (re-) launched "New International Business" class a few years ago, I think Qantas has improved. Generally, I've found the food and wine good and the staff attentive. In those areas, I'm inclined to think they're better than BA.
- In addition, the 'condition' of the QF seats etc can be better than the BA ones. BA were the first to introduce the flat-bed fit out and on some 'planes the age of the fit out is starting to show.
- But QF also has a couple of big negatives - the fact that the seat doesn't lie flat but is sloped can be problem for some people.
- In addition, the breaking-down AVOD can be a problem
- But at the same time, BA's AVOD (on some planes) can contain much less variety.

So if you're picking then:
- I'd use QF if the food/wine/attentiveness is more important to you.
- I'd use BA if the completely flat bed is the most important to you.
- I woulnd't focus on the AVOD because there are swings and roundabouts on both.

Personally, I detest the sloping bed so I try to fly BA. I always wake up feeling like my underpants are up around my chest.

 

[Keith009]

Personally I'd only consider Cathay once all the options on QF and BA have been exhausted. New seats or not (and i don't like the new J seats) the service and catering are bigger concerns to me. YMMV.

Mid next year could be hard getting a redemption though. But generally have never found it that difficult to get redemptions to Europe, unlike to LAX. Even in the supposedly peak period of Feb, as late as a week ago I was seeing P and U availability on LHR-MEL, sometimes U2, on every day of the week - sometimes on both flights! Yet when I booked 330 days prior to departure P was only available every 2nd day and only on QF30. Go figure!

 

[Evan]

QF F is great - but i have never flown BA F, if you can get the new CX F then i think its also fantastic from my last trip, but i am not sure you get the new product to Australia.

And i would pick QF J over BA J, simply because i prefer the skybed, and the food / wine. (But BA does have bacon rolls sometimes for breakfast which are great !) I was impressed by the new CX J but i only sat in the seat to check it out (i had an F seat)

I assume BA serve the Bollinger in F the 99 GA ? if so that would for me be a + since i especially like it.

Service wise, QF have always been very good to me, BA good, and CX have been good. Still i think i pick QF.
But if i was sitting in whY i would have to rate the CX service as fantastic, they really do look after the OWE's who may not be there own but fly a lot with them.

E

 

[simongr]

So looks like my view of BA J is out voted - all these bloody aussies on here

 

[Masonic Phantom]

So looks like my view of BA J is out voted - all these bloody aussies on here

I will start the collection with $20

 

[bokflyer]

As a non-Pom, non-Aussie, I can perhaps offer an independent perspective. For me QF and BA F is much of a muchness, similar seat, similar catering, although QF AVOD edges BA. I have never had bad service in F on either carrier and would recommend both. The real difference is in J. If you really want the lie completely flat seat, then BA is your choice, otherwise my vote probably goes to QF's seat, as it is more comfy for sitting and the AVOD is better. Also, in IMHO, where you sit in BA J is key, upstairs on the 747 is excellent, but downstairs in the middle seats is pretty bad. The 2 rear-facing seats next to each other are too close for comfort, fine if you are with a companion, but otherwise not. As for cabin crew, QF at their best are among the best in the sky, they are just not at their best all the time and there are too many flying dragons. BA crew are generally typically British -- cool and efficient. They respond best to people who are like them, polite, reserved and understated, which might explain why some Aussies battle with BA crew.