Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Reports this morning that Queensland is going to move to mining camps for HQ.

Looks like the public service might have to come up with solutions.

The reason I suggested $2-3 billion is the most recent lockdown in NSW cost over $3 billion alone... so spending this amount will save at least $3bn in extended Jobkeeper and future jobseeker payments. For those who remember Keynesian economics the stimulus effect of this crash Commonwealth program would also apply.

My advice would be to talk to the mining industry who are used to doing this.

Though the whole thing will probably get held up getting an environmental impact statement done... there’s a decade easily.

This is big news.

I just saw it confirmed by ABC news reporting of the Qld press conference. It will now get the attention of AHPPC and National Cabinet.

Qld directly referred to Howard Springs and mining camps (apparently 4 star) and hopefully other states have similar (remote, my guess) facilities.

So perhaps someone with influence reads AFF threads

I give credit to antycbr who I think raised it here first.

ABC quoting Qld Premier

"We are going to look at all options and one of those options is to look at some of the mining camps that we have in Queensland.

"Now, for a start, some of these mining camps are four-star. They are of a very good quality high standard. My understanding is some of them have - most of them - the ones we're looking at have balconies, so there's a lot of fresh air for guests and also, too, there's the capacity for all of the staff and the cleaners and everyone to also be based on those sites as well.

"I'm going to put this forward as an option to the Federal Government and I also - and we'll be having those discussions, so we'll look forward to those discussions over the next few days. But also, too, I do want to discuss it at National Cabinet, that will be held on Friday week. I hope the AHPPC advice will also go to National Cabinet.

"I think with this new strain, we have to put all options on the table and these are sensible, rational options. The Howard Springs works very well in the Northern Territory and there's no reason why we couldn't do something similar here in Queensland or if not around the
country."

 

[Must...Fly!]

The comments really sums things up nicely on the West, also gives you a pretty good indication on the very likely outcome of their state election - "All hail St Mark, our hero".

The place is prime for an outbreak if one case gets out, and I take no joy in saying that.

In happier news the WA health service seems to have flattened the curve of RSV presentations in to EDs

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/-/media/Corp/Documents/Health-for/Infectious-disease/VirusWAtch/2021/20210103-virus-watch.pdf

 

[OATEK]

So you do not know what GST is? Somehow I doubt that, though perhaps you forgot about its existence when you asked your original question?

There are a raft of taxes that individuals and companies may need to pay. GST is one aimed at ensuring that all pay tax.

GST on up means that everyone has to pay it and then after that there are a range of other taxes and excises that individuals and companies may need to pay. GST means though that all pay tax.

Ha ha. A complete non sequitur on my query of your claim that "they [in the context of the conversation] all pay tax". Still unanswered - what's the basis for your claim that:



With the emphasis on "all". To affirm, I think you'd need to know the personal circumstances of all those concerned, otherwise its just an assumption. Again, I only persevere because you have frequently 'demanded' similar responses off others.

Oh, and re GST. "So you do not know what GST is?" Another non sequitur. You didn't mention GST, so the query of whether I know what GST is, is a deflecting red herring. Gosh, I even know what the WET tax is, as well as Payroll tax

"There are a raft of taxes that individuals and companies may need to pay. GST is one aimed at ensuring that all pay tax." My home business, although trading, does not pay or charge GST, at least for the past 2 years. Go figure. I'm pretty sure its not the only one.

There's no way you can say for sure that they "all" paid tax without knowing the tax circumstances of them all. It was an assumption stated as a fact.

Reminds me of trying to get Fonzie to say liver. Not all businesses pay GST - it is a consumer tax, so businesses may collect and pass it on, but not actually pay it. My business charges GST on evry invoice to my Government clients, but they just claim it back against other tax obligations. I try to ensure I have a tax refund due each year, and it comes off the GST I transmit so that I at best pass on about 60% of the GST I collect.

Many business do not pay tax, and to argue that the AO is so really important to the economy of Vic, above all those other businesses that have been decimated by lockdown, is as I said earlier indefensible (if not to all, then many).

One thing that the Covid spread has shown up is parochialism and I'll be right, instead of us all being in this together.

The Zero cases in Sydney today is good news, but it won't last as long as we keep bringing people home, and humans run the system. We have to be ready for it, or ban Aussies coming home, or send them to internment camps that not long ago some people were saying are unfit to house illegal immigrants.

The image of retunred travellers being rounded up by people in uniforms at the end of the 14 day quarantine period to be transported somewhere else for locking up for another 14 days is in my opinion p#$s poor.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Vic Presser:

Just on Vic Hotel Quarantine numbers for international arrivals Dan just stated in Today's Vic Presser that Victoria was originally going to have moved to about 2000 arrivals a week by the time of the Australian Open, but retained the current level (1120) due the National Cabinet decision on arrival caps. Dan said that he hoped to announce an increase within several weeks.

 

[tgh]

There will eventually be a Covid talisman in terms of the infection rate and the vaccination numbers.
I guess there will be a dynamic chart sometime on the web telling us all the good or bad news.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations

Our vaccination dataset uses the most recent official numbers from governments and health ministries worldwide. Population estimates for per-capita metrics are based on the United Nations World Population Prospects. Income groups are based on the World Bank classification. A full list of our...

ourworldindata.org

 

[zenyattamondatta]

Not everyone coming back from abroad is a good candidate to be shunted off to a mining camp, however amenable the facilities. Many people are trying to come back because they have other medical issues to address.

So we're still basically talking about a risk management approach. We aren't going to be able to eliminate exposure entirely.

 

[Lynda2475]

Whilst with sufficient planning it will be posisble to set up more remote quarantine facilities like Howard Springs, it doesnt solve the whole issue and least not quickly.

We dont have airports capable of accomodating large jets in many remote areas ie. the run ways arent long enough, dont have stairs for large planes, etc.

So you either still have arrivals coming into SYD, MEL, BNE and then the challenge of safely transporting the crews and passengers to remote site (transport workers are a known weak link), or you have to look at expanding regional airports like LEA and build remote facilities next to these airports - understanding then that if a person needs acute care you are then hours away from major hopsital (you''d likley have to establish a military run hospital with extensive ICU capacity also on site).

Not forgetting that huge number of flights coming into SYD each day are actually international freight, crews stay 12-48 hours to recharge and then fly out again - the moving them to and from regional sites every day or so adds to risk profile (vs keeping then at HQ next to airport). The systems to process and transport that freight is set up in our capital cities, Im not sure how you can easily move that to remote areas.

The quick wins now is give transport drivers and cleaners better PPE - ditch the useless surgical masks, issue N95s, eye protection, gloves. Use vehicles where driver is sealed off from passengers and enters via a separate door.

Then look at establishing purpose built sites for Quarantine which have outdoor exercise areas and have negative pressure aircon systems so virus isnt spread between rooms via ventilation.

Qld and WA may have disused remote mining sites they can repurpose for quarantine, it would be tougher to find such sites in NSW (as mining is closer to largely populated areas i.e. Newcastle and less FIFO).

 

[lovetravellingoz]

The Zero cases in Sydney today is good news, but it won't last as long as we keep bringing people home, and humans run the system. We have to be ready for it, or ban Aussies coming home, or send them to internment camps that not long ago some people were saying are unfit to house illegal immigrants.

Yes, sooner or later another leakage from people entering Australia will most likely occur.

However hopefully the recent range changes with respect to both the process for returning travellers quarantine and arriving aircrew will make this less frequent, and perhaps even more importantly allow any outbreak to be detected much earlier so that transmission chains do not grow for some days/weeks before being detected.

This when added to the the "two rings" of containment method for any new case will hopefully also soon give our various authorities the confidence to free up interstate travel, and to relax other, but not all, control measures.

And so the latter scenarios you mentioned should not be required. Though as others have mentioned appropriate dedicated quarantine facilities may be a good idea, but Christmas Island no thank you.

 

[oz_mark]

The place is prime for an outbreak if one case gets out, and I take no joy in saying that.

In happier news the WA health service seems to have flattened the curve of RSV presentations in to EDs

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/-/media/Corp/Documents/Health-for/Infectious-disease/VirusWAtch/2021/20210103-virus-watch.pdf

Unfortunately, vulnerability to an outbreak forms part of their decision making on borders. Wish they would address those issues!

 

[Lynda2475]

Just on Vic Hotel Quarantine numbers for international arrivals Dan just stated in Today's Vic Presser that Victoria was originally going to have moved to about 2000 arrivals a week by the time of the Australian Open, but retained the current level (1120) due the National Cabinet decision on arrival caps. Dan said that he hoped to announce an increase within several weeks.

Conradicts what ScoMo said earlier in the week, which was that National Cabinet did not reduce Vic caps because they were already running below 50% of target and hadnt yet indicated a willingness to return to previous volumes.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Conradicts what ScoMo said earlier in the week, which was that National Cabinet did not reduce Vic caps because they were already running below 50% of target and hadnt yet indicated a willingness to return to previous volumes.

I think the key part is hadn't yet. As in the immediate time frame, rather than not ever. So I don't see a contradiction.



I am not sure that ScMo stated what Victoria would be doing in the future. It was reported that:

“Queensland, at 500. Victoria, there'll be no change, because they're already operating at less than 50% of their current capacity, or on their way back,” Mr Morrison said.


and

"Arrangements on international passenger caps will be reviewed by National Cabinet in early February,"

I missed him specifically saying that Vic was unwilling to ever go beyond 1120 per week.

When the 1120/week cap was announced last year it was indicated that this was to be the initial cap and that they would look to increase on that, though I do not recall any time line on when that may be till today's Vic Presser. This is a reason why I posted the update on such a timeline today as I thought that it was new and welcome information.

Anyway good news that they are looking to increase the HQ arrivals cap in Victoria in the near future.

 

[Anna]

The trouble with remote camps being used for mandatory detention aka quarantine is finding enough qualified staff for the necessary 24/7 work, which is 3 shifts per day. Highly unlikely enough qualified or trained staff will be available locally, so that means you need to fly the staff in and find them accommodation too - again probably not enough available locally so it needs to be constructed. Finding the right medical care in the bush can be an issue too. Logistically it's a nightmare.

 

[jakeseven7]

Victoria plans on relaxing Sydney restrictions​

Victorian Premier Dan Andrews has foreshadowed he is working towards reopening the state up to parts of Sydney.

"We're working to reduce the total red zone down to some priority or local government areas of highest concern," he said.

"If conditions in Sydney are suitably favour for us to be able to reduce our focus down to a smaller geographical footprint and therefore a smaller number of people, then we'll absolutely do that.

"We'll make those announcements and confirm those arrangements as soon as we possibly can.

Anti-maskers' wild brawl with cops

The NSW Premier has expressed her disappointment after two men refusing to wear face masks became aggressive and allegedly assaulted police officers at a western Sydney shopping centre.

www.news.com.au

 

[SydneySwan]

Victoria plans on relaxing Sydney restrictions​

Victorian Premier Dan Andrews has foreshadowed he is working towards reopening the state up to parts of Sydney.

"We're working to reduce the total red zone down to some priority or local government areas of highest concern," he said.

"If conditions in Sydney are suitably favour for us to be able to reduce our focus down to a smaller geographical footprint and therefore a smaller number of people, then we'll absolutely do that.

"We'll make those announcements and confirm those arrangements as soon as we possibly can.

Anti-maskers' wild brawl with cops

The NSW Premier has expressed her disappointment after two men refusing to wear face masks became aggressive and allegedly assaulted police officers at a western Sydney shopping centre.

www.news.com.au

I am very wary of this. I wouldn't want to go to Vic and 2 days later case reported in my home suburb and then DPRV declares it a hotspot and tries to quarantine me for 2 weeks. I have seen enough of DPRV shenanigan's at locking out its own citizens to trust it for quite a while.

 

[Pushka]

I am very wary of this. I wouldn't want to go to Vic and 2 days later case reported in my home suburb and then DPRV declares it a hotspot and tries to quarantine me for 2 weeks.

It is going to take a long time before we can safely travel interstate and be confident that hot spots aren’t declared retrospectively resulting in completely unplanned and possibly expensive quarantine issues either in the holiday state or when you return home.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I am very wary of this. I wouldn't want to go to Vic and 2 days later case reported in my home suburb and then DPRV declares it a hotspot and tries to quarantine me for 2 weeks. I have seen enough of DPRV shenanigan's at locking out its own citizens to trust it for quite a while.

From someone who travelled to Qld in 2020, that’s saying something....

It is going to take a long time before we can safely travel interstate and be confident that hot spots aren’t declared retrospectively resulting in completely unplanned and possibly expensive quarantine issues either in the holiday state or when you return home.

....again from someone who has travelled to Qld in 2020.

Does anyone else need hints??? Lol

 

[Pushka]

From someone who travelled to Qld in 2020, that’s saying something....

....again from someone who has travelled to Qld in 2020.

Does anyone else need hints??? Lol

I felt much more at ease travelling interstate back in August than I do now with some states applying the retrospective thing. That wasn’t in play when we travelled.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

With this discussion on remote mandatory quarantine, a positive might be the States charging people less for the mandatory quarantine.

So more Aussies can afford to come home.

It probably has a reasonable chance of success / National Cabinet agreement if each State / Territory taking returned travellers can find suitable locations, no reason why planes can’t fly there or near there and then reposition to take freight and passenger outbound. Or use Qantas/Virgin/Rex as red transit flights to these remote locations.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2021

I felt much more at ease travelling interstate back in August than I do now with some states applying the retrospective thing. That wasn’t in play when we travelled.

Noted. I also remember you worrying about the potential of being locked out of your home state

 

[drron]

At least if you live in NSW you always know you can return home.

 

[SydneySwan]

I felt much more at ease travelling interstate back in August than I do now with some states applying the retrospective thing. That wasn’t in play when we travelled.

That's right - I don't think retrospective quarantine was on the agenda then. When Queensland did close the border again in early August I recollect them saying that those NSW residents already there were OK to stay. I wouldn't trust Queensland Govt now though.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2021

At least if you live in NSW you always know you can return home.

Providing the other state allows you to leave!