The COVID-19 vaccine rollout in Australia has begun

[mviy]

With the extra vaccine supply announced today, we may even have everyone done by the end of the year.

That depends on when in Q4 the supply arrives and if it can be brought forward at all.

 

[RooFlyer]

It seems like the ability to order the extra Pfizer doses (20 million) was built into the original 20 mill dose contract the federal government signed with Pfizer.

The critics are looking more and more foolish to me ...

 

[Pushka]

It seems like the ability to order the extra Pfizer doses (20 million) was built into the original 20 mill dose contract the federal government signed with Pfizer.

The critics are looking more and more foolish to me ...

It’s about communication though isn’t it? If the Govt doesn’t explain the detail then of course people will become concerned. And they have made a huge deal about locally produced AZ will be our savior so we aren’t beholden to import issues. Well, we are!

 

[RooFlyer]

It’s about communication though isn’t it? If the Govt doesn’t explain the detail then of course people will become concerned. And they have made a huge deal about locally produced AZ will be our savior so we aren’t beholden to import issues. Well, we are!

Well, yeah, we all say things before we get new information which changes things, don’t we?

The local production IS a huge deal!

 

[burmans]

20 million extra doses ordered, bringing total of Pfizer to 40 million. All this year.

Is that ok?

20 M doses is OK, not delivered until Q4 not so OK (or should I say 'promised' to deliver, given we now know promised to deliver doesn't mean actually delivered).

 

[burmans]

What's the rush? No-one is going anywhere for a long time while numbers look like this;

Worldwide cases

132,975,564

Increase

557,147

Worldwide deaths

2,886,571

Increase

14,133

This is the comparison table that I am happy that Australia is languishing at the bottom of.
And the only COVID we have, is that which we are importing.
With the extra vaccine supply announced today, we may even have everyone done by the end of the year.

20 million vaccinations when it won't be delivered until Q4, I suspect not. Even if delivered day 1 of Q4, that's 1.5 million a week, that seems far fetched.

 

[Jmrocky]

20 million extra doses ordered, bringing total of Pfizer to 40 million. All this year.

Is that ok?

All this year was a verbal promise in a presser, I wouldn't be touching that bet with a pole.

Secondly, getting out that quantity (What's phase 2B - 6.5million adults?) of Pfizer across the nation is going to be a significant logistical effort, and considering how that's going so far, forgive us for not nailing anything on that promise.

 

[Lynda2475]

Secondly, getting out that quantity (What's phase 2B - 6.5million adults?) of Pfizer across the nation is going to be a significant logistical effort, and considering how that's going so far, forgive us for not nailing anything on that promise.

Because of Pfizer storage requirements, the government will be forced to move away from the inefficient GP and pharmac_ plan when 2B starts and towards vaccination hubs at hospitals and purpose run vaccination facilities like NSW and Vic have announced they are setting up.

It is far more efficient to have hubs that people go to (instead shipping tiny volumes to thousands of GP clinics). Far easier to streamline electronic appointment booking, fill in all your history online at booking, then scan your QR appointment code and medicare on arrival, temperature check, jab then sit in observation area for 15 mins then go. Becomes a production line, less wastage, easier to social distance and consistent approach no matter what the centre.

Also younger adults are far less likely to see a specific GP regularly, so removes the complexity of finding a participating GP who has availability, just register for the nearest public hub.

 

[jonboixxx]

20 million vaccinations when it won't be delivered until Q4, I suspect not. Even if delivered day 1 of Q4, that's 1.5 million a week, that seems far fetched.

Hopefully we'll be around total 40M doses by day 1, Q4.

 

[jonboixxx]

inefficient GP and pharmac_ plan when 2B

pharmac_ was to start 2A, and how do the 'inefficient' GP and pharmac_ network do the bulk of the flu (and other) vaccination heavy lifting year after year?
As originally planned, to have 50 million doses administered, especially regionally, this will continue to be a multi-pronged albeit modified approach including hubs if required.

 

[burmans]

The critics are looking more and more foolish to me ...

The issue here is not and was never whether we could order more doses, Pfizer is a business who would never turn down orders. But can they deliver in a politically acceptable timeline, I’d say not. This has always been the concern and it doesn’t look foolish to me, in fact I’d go so far as to say not having concerns about the timeline is what’s foolish. If, as increasingly looks likely, overseas countries get to full vaccination and start to open up for travel while we don’t there will be plenty of unhappy people out there.

 

[Seat0B]

My main motivation to get vaccinated is to travel overseas to see family. If that can’t happen, and it certainly looks like it will be a long time and well into 2022 before I can go visit, then I am in no rush to get any vaccination at all.

I’m a healthy 60 year old, and I have a 1b access because I am a volunteer firefighter. I had already decided not to use that access and just wait my tun (age based) because I thought that other people needed the shot more than I did.

Now I am feeling quite a bit of vaccine hesitancy. Not because I am worried about blood clots, but more because we don’t really know what other side effects are out there given the short timeframe and relatively small cohorts in the original clinical trials. My attitude would be different if COVID were rampant here, but it just is not. And if I can’t leave the country to see my boy, then I don’t really see much point rushing in just now to get vaccinated. I do feel a bit “sacrificial lamb” about this decision that it’s ok for 50+ to get AZ on the basis of our higher risks of COVID complications than inyounger age groups. However, as things currently stand, living in ACT, taking personal responsibility for social distancing and hand hygiene, with my health status, and unable to travel overseas, my personal risk of getting COVID is miniscule and likely lower than the risk of the blood clots. Plus I know I am a lot fitter and healthier than many of my age cohort (thank you CrossFit!), so I don’t see how my benefit from the vaccine (with know risks emerging) is enough to outweigh my risks of COVID (pretty well non-existent - and if no COVID, then certainly no COVID disease/complications).

Before all this, I was keen. Now not so much. Think I will now be a late adopter.

 

[OATEK]

The issue here is not and was never whether we could order more doses, Pfizer is a business who would never turn down orders. But can they deliver in a politically acceptable timeline, I’d say not. This has always been the concern and it doesn’t look foolish to me, in fact I’d go so far as to say not having concerns about the timeline is what’s foolish. If, as increasingly looks likely, overseas countries get to full vaccination and start to open up for travel while we don’t there will be plenty of unhappy people out there.

"Plenty of", personally I think it will be more like a few. Certainly not enough to make say an electoral difference. IMHO there will be very little pressure to travel overseas before 2023 based on the people I talk to both from our family, the local community and business contacts. People like myself who are desperately keen to travel for family reunion are not likely to be in large enough numbers to provide any real pressure, it will be the airlines, travel agents etc making the most noise.

 

[Seat0B]

"Plenty of", personally I think it will be more like a few. Certainly not enough to make say an electoral difference. IMHO there will be very little pressure to travel overseas before 2023 based on the people I talk to both from our family, the local community and business contacts. People like myself who are desperately keen to travel for family reunion are not likely to be in large enough numbers to provide any real pressure, it will be the airlines, travel agents etc making the most noise.

I'm right there with you @OATEK.

It's now almost 18 months since I saw my son. In the meantime, he became an uncle for the first time, and has never met his 6 month old niece. His only remaining grandfather is now 90, and will not last forever. His only remaining grandmother, widowed in late 2018 has bloomed and taken an on-line degree, and will graduate in August - he won't be at the graduation or even the family party. He lives in a country that geo-blocks tools like FaceTime, What's App video, Messenger Video, and which even periodically blocks the VPN companies, making communication very limited unless you want to pay $300/hr to the state owned telecom. He also just separated from his live-in girlfriend of 5 years, their relationship a victim of work from home and strict lockdowns and different work patterns and busy-ness (he is crazy busy, she has a lot of spare time), and she moved out and took their cat (thank goodness no children involved). He has a few friends, but no real support there, but he has a good job that he loves and does not want or need to come home unless he gets the sack. He struggles to get enough time off, even though he has mountains of leave, to do the hotel quarantine that would be required, even if he could manage to get a flight home, which he can't. I on the other hand, am all but retired, have plenty of money and plenty of time, and would visit if I could, but....

Surely, given the multi-cultural nature of Australia, and the expat experience sought by so many of our young, there must be many, many people who are increasingly affected by the border closure. I try not to think about it, as it just tends to make me sad, but when things like yesterday's AZ announcement happen, I feel like my chance to see my immediate family is slipping further and further away.

 

[justinbrett]

It wasn't that many months ago people were saying "we've never had a coronavirus vaccine" and "it will be years until we get one that works".

I don't get the sudden rush to vaccinate the entire population yesterday - especially if it involves taking vaccines that are being used in Europe to save lives. If we don't get the majority of the Pfizer vaccines until Christmas so be it. I'd actually like to see Europe & the US bring covid under control more than to see us fully vaccinated with zero risk. Seems odd otherwise.

 

[Lynda2475]

pharmac_ was to start 2A, and how do the 'inefficient' GP and pharmac_ network do the bulk of the flu (and other) vaccination heavy lifting year after year

Way more people need to get Covid vaccinations than opt into the flu shot. Also a huge proportion of people who get flu shots also get them at their place of employment, something not being offered for Covid (unless you work at a hospital or aged care facility) - because of the staged roll-out.

Most GP clinics only do some vaccinations, if you need yellow fever for example there is generally only a handful of travel clinics in each state where you need to go to get it. Pharmacies and GPs don't have the right type of refrigeration for Pfizer.

Pharmacies also unlikely to have room to provide socially distanced seating for you to be observed following the jab for the required 15 minute period, and less equipped to deal with anaphylactic reactions vs a vaccination hub which can have a doctor on site in addition to the nurses (not a pharmacist) giving the injections.

Centralized hubs can easily be designed to have the right storage, right staffing levels, plenty of space etc. The states are already moving to this model before the Pfizer announcement because it makes much more sense.

Old people generally have more health issues so are likley to have a regular GP. Similarly people with young children in daycare who constantly pick up bugs also have a regular doctor. But many younger adults don't have need to regularly see a GP and would find it much easier to go to a hub and not worry about having to be put on the books as a patient or calling random surgeries to try make an appointment.

 

[Pushka]

My main motivation to get vaccinated is to travel overseas to see family. If that can’t happen, and it certainly looks like it will be a long time and well into 2022 before I can go visit, then I am in no rush to get any vaccination at all.

I’m a healthy 60 year old, and I have a 1b access because I am a volunteer firefighter. I had already decided not to use that access and just wait my tun (age based) because I thought that other people needed the shot more than I did.

Now I am feeling quite a bit of vaccine hesitancy. Not because I am worried about blood clots, but more because we don’t really know what other side effects are out there given the short timeframe and relatively small cohorts in the original clinical trials. My attitude would be different if COVID were rampant here, but it just is not. And if I can’t leave the country to see my boy, then I don’t really see much point rushing in just now to get vaccinated. I do feel a bit “sacrificial lamb” about this decision that it’s ok for 50+ to get AZ on the basis of our higher risks of COVID complications than inyounger age groups. However, as things currently stand, living in ACT, taking personal responsibility for social distancing and hand hygiene, with my health status, and unable to travel overseas, my personal risk of getting COVID is miniscule and likely lower than the risk of the blood clots. Plus I know I am a lot fitter and healthier than many of my age cohort (thank you CrossFit!), so I don’t see how my benefit from the vaccine (with know risks emerging) is enough to outweigh my risks of COVID (pretty well non-existent - and if no COVID, then certainly no COVID disease/complications).

Before all this, I was keen. Now not so much. Think I will now be a late adopter.

That is perfectly understandable. But I have to believe that we can travel next year. I've got my sons wedding to go to! By hook or by crook. I cannot give up that thought.

 

[Seat0B]

Way more people need to get Covid vaccinations than opt into the flu shot. Also a huge proportion of people who get flu shots also get them at their place of employment, something not being offered for Covid (unless you work at a hospital or aged care facility) - because of the staged roll-out.

Most GP clinics only do some vaccinations, if you need yellow fever for example there is generally only a handful of travel clinics in each state where you need to go to get it. Pharmacies and GPs don't have the right type of refrigeration for Pfizer.

Pharmacies also unlikely to have room to provide socially distanced seating for you to be observed following the jab for the required 15 minute period, and less equipped to deal with anaphylactic reactions vs a vaccination hub which can have a doctor on site in addition to the nurses (not a pharmacist) giving the injections.

Centralized hubs can easily be designed to have the right storage, right staffing levels, plenty of space etc. The states are already moving to this model before the Pfizer announcement because it makes much more sense.

Old people generally have more health issues so are likley to have a regular GP. Similarly people with young children in daycare who constantly pick up bugs also have a regular doctor. But many younger adults don't have need to regularly see a GP and would find it much easier to go to a hub and not worry about having to be put on the books as a patient or calling random surgeries to try make an appointment.

ACT government expected to offer COVID shots in the workplace to teachers - or at least they were planning to until the thing yesterday with the AZ and the under 50's. I suppose now that some teachers will have to get the Pfizer, the arrangements will have to change.

 

[Lynda2475]

Yeah workplace vaccinations only work for the older AZ and J&J vaccines that don't have ultra low storage requirements.

Hence why i support hubs for Pfizer - so easy to establish at hospitals and other places in the metro area and large regional centres.

Some creativity is then needed for remote people, although something portable and RFDS to fly in and fly out is a possibility.

 

[RAM]

GP's not inefficient but the Cwth approach of only sending 40-50 doses/week to GP clinics with up to 30 different GPs operating out of them & at the same time the Cwth Govt starts advertsing telling people to contact their GP for CV vaccination.

Outcome - GP's phone lines jammed by people seeking a booking & getting angry/upset when they finally get answered only to be told perhaps in the the 3rd week of May...

pharmac_ was to start 2A, and how do the 'inefficient' GP and pharmac_ network do the bulk of the flu (and other) vaccination heavy lifting year after year?As originally planned, to have 50 million doses administered, especially regionally, this will continue to be a multi-pronged albeit modified approach including hubs if required