US election 2020

[p--and--t]

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump on Thursday questioned whether the 2020 presidential election should potentially be postponed, claiming it could be ripe for fraud.

“With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history," Trump tweeted. "It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???”

While states have the authority to delay their primary elections, only Congress can change the date for the general election for president, because the Constitution gives Congress the authority to set the general election date.

Since 1845, Congress has required the appointment of presidential electors (now by election in every state) to take place on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, which this year is November 3.

Trump floats delaying the election, but he can't do that

While states have the authority to delay their primary elections, only Congress can change the date of the presidential election.

www.nbcnews.com

Sounds a bit like he is getting frantic about not being able to manipulate the result.

 

[RooFlyer]

Sounds a bit like he is getting frantic about not being able to manipulate the result.

I think it was more a tactic to distract from the very bad economic news that was released in the USA yesterday. He cannot change the date of the election date without the Congress (Democrats) agreeing. The distraction has largely worked, which is a shame.

Individual states have the power to appoint the electoral college voters, who actually give the numbers to elect a President, so that process could be corrupted at a State level. There are 28 republican states.

 

[drron]

A little background on one of the reasons POTUS and Dr.Fauci have had a fall out.This is a research paper on how Chloroquine and HCQ were able in the laboratory to both treat and prevent SARS.The principle effect was to manipulate the ACE 2 receptor which is the way SARS,MERS and covid 19 get into the body.

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread - PubMed

Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The research was done in the CDC Atanta by those working in the then Viral and Rickettsial diseases whose head was Dr.Fauci.With this evidence HCQ was a prime candidate for a proper trial of the drug with covid 19.Another failure for the CDC.

 

[TheRealTMA]

A little background on one of the reasons POTUS and Dr.Fauci have had a fall out.This is a research paper on how Chloroquine and HCQ were able in the laboratory to both treat and prevent SARS.The principle effect was to manipulate the ACE 2 receptor which is the way SARS,MERS and covid 19 get into the body.

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread - PubMed

Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The research was done in the CDC Atanta by those working in the then Viral and Rickettsial diseases whose head was Dr.Fauci.With this evidence HCQ was a prime candidate for a proper trial of the drug with covid 19.Another failure for the CDC.

There's a lot of politics in HCQ in the US related the Trump with poorly understood studies being promoted. This study above is for in vitro studies, the following paper and many other studies suggests that HCQ is not efficacious in humans.

Chloroquine does not inhibit infection of human lung cells with SARS-CoV-2 - Nature

Expression of TMPRSS2—a protease that activates SARS-CoV-2 for entry into cells—renders SARS-CoV-2 insensitive to chloroquine.

www.nature.com

 

[Isochronous]

Clever Tweet by Trump which will get the left to prattle on about how there's no barrier to the election proceeding as scheduled, which will assist in justifying Trump's view that there should be in-person voting and not the mass mail fraud which the Democrats are desperate to perpetrate to steal the election.

 

[get me outta here]

And yet Trump did his own mail-in vote. Did he not know how perilous you think that is?

Clever Tweet by Trump which will get the left to prattle on about how there's no barrier to the election proceeding as scheduled, which will assist in justifying Trump's view that there should be in-person voting and not the mass mail fraud which the Democrats are desperate to perpetrate to steal the election.

 

[drron]

There's a lot of politics in HCQ in the US related the Trump with poorly understood studies being promoted. This study above is for in vitro studies, the following paper and many other studies suggests that HCQ is not efficacious in humans.

Chloroquine does not inhibit infection of human lung cells with SARS-CoV-2 - Nature

Expression of TMPRSS2—a protease that activates SARS-CoV-2 for entry into cells—renders SARS-CoV-2 insensitive to chloroquine.

www.nature.com

I guess you didn't get the difference to the paper I linked which shows the drugs interfere with the receptors that initially allow the virus to infect the naso pharyngeal cells.The authors of your linked paper admit that pathway doesn't exist in the lung cells they used so no wonder they got that result.My point in quoting this paper was that it came out of the NIH in 2005 so Chloroquine and HCQ should have been high on the list to do a proper double blind study straight up.

There have been other studies that show that HCQ when given with zinc does lessen lung infection.If you read the second comment on the paper you linked there is a list of 19 such papers.

Unfortunately because of the politics even previously esteemed medical journals such as the Lancet and NEJM have rushed to publish negative papers on HCQ which have turned out to be false.

As well there are published reports of definite improvement using Chloroquine +/- Azithromycin in Covid 19 patients.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Clever Tweet by Trump which will get the left to prattle on about how there's no barrier to the election proceeding as scheduled, which will assist in justifying Trump's view that there should be in-person voting and not the mass mail fraud which the Democrats are desperate to perpetrate to steal the election.

It’s called a “dead cat” proposal to distract from the terrible economic news, the CV crisis and failure of sending masked agents into Portland and Seattle. The first to condemn the tweet were the Republicans..

 

[TheRealTMA]

I guess you didn't get the difference to the paper I linked which shows the drugs interfere with the receptors that initially allow the virus to infect the naso pharyngeal cells.The authors of your linked paper admit that pathway doesn't exist in the lung cells they used so no wonder they got that result.My point in quoting this paper was that it came out of the NIH in 2005 so Chloroquine and HCQ should have been high on the list to do a proper double blind study straight up.

There have been other studies that show that HCQ when given with zinc does lessen lung infection.If you read the second comment on the paper you linked there is a list of 19 such papers.

Unfortunately because of the politics even previously esteemed medical journals such as the Lancet and NEJM have rushed to publish negative papers on HCQ which have turned out to be false.

As well there are published reports of definite improvement using Chloroquine +/- Azithromycin in Covid 19 patients.

We obviously have to disagree. The consensus is that it’s useless as evidenced by this study.

Coronavirus: Malaria drug hydroxychloroquine 'does not save lives'

Hydroxychloroquine has become controversial but it is not a treatment for Covid, say Oxford researchers.

www.bbc.com

 

[Flying mermaid]

We obviously have to disagree. The consensus is that it’s useless as evidenced by this study.

Coronavirus: Malaria drug hydroxychloroquine 'does not save lives'

Hydroxychloroquine has become controversial but it is not a treatment for Covid, say Oxford researchers.

www.bbc.com

Interesting - so many conflicting studies. The Oxford researchers seem very independent.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I don’t see how what the Republican Senate does today/this week affects the Presidential election - I would have thought views on the Presidential election are quite entrenched - so possibly click-bait Journalism.

WASHINGTON — A crucial week on Capitol Hill that began with a rocky Republican rollout of a coronavirus relief package ended with a complete breakdown in negotiations, threatening to deepen the perils of an already embattled President Donald Trump.

The Republican-led Senate adjourned Thursday for a long weekend with no action on COVID-19 relief, all but ensuring that a $600 weekly federal unemployment benefit would expire Friday.


The payment has been a financial lifeline for more than 20 million out-of-work Americans. The U.S. recorded its worst quarterly economic contraction ever Thursday — during a week when the national death toll from the virus topped 150,000.

....courtesy NBC news website.

 

[drron]

We obviously have to disagree. The consensus is that it’s useless as evidenced by this study.

Coronavirus: Malaria drug hydroxychloroquine 'does not save lives'

Hydroxychloroquine has become controversial but it is not a treatment for Covid, say Oxford researchers.

www.bbc.com

I'm sorry one article by the BBC is not proof-I have linked several articles that say differently.The weakness with the Oxford trial is that because of the politics they were asked to review the data early.That is not necessarily bad but goes against the stated aims of the trial.

Nothing in Medicine is absolute.As a student and the first 15 years after graduation I believed along with the great majority of Physicians that Beta Blockers were bad for heart failure.But a couple of British researchers continued to put forward evidence that they were probably beneficial.By the 90s they were proven right and now Beta Blockers are one of the main stays of treatment for heart failure.

Anyone who says this-

There's a lot of politics in HCQ in the US related the Trump with poorly understood studies being promoted. This study above is for in vitro studies, the following paper and many other studies suggests that HCQ is not efficacious in humans.

Is not putting a medical argument forward but a political one.
Trump is irrelevant.There were good theoretical reasons from the work with SARS and MERS to at least trial HCQ which is a cheap drug with over 60 years of usage and the precautions needed to take with it very well known.but as soon as those wanting to attack Trump got involved medicine and science went out the window.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Can we look forward to Acting President Pelosi?

While states have the authority to delay their primary elections, only Congress can change the date for the general election for president under the Constitution. Since 1845, Congress has required the appointment of presidential electors (now by election in every state) to take place on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, which this year is Nov. 3.

As to whether an election could be delayed indefinitely, such as for a public health emergency as Trump suggests, legal experts said it was out of the realm of possibility. Even if Congress did agree to change the date of the general election, Trump's term would still expire in accordance with the 20th Amendment of the Constitution.

"That's constitutionally impossible," Trevor Potter, president of the Campaign Legal Center and a former chairman of the Federal Election Commission, said of any indefinite delay. "The president’s term expires and there is no way for him to continue in office beyond January 20 without being re-elected."

And there's quite a few things that have to happen before that date: states need to choose their electors for the Electoral College, who then need to meet and choose the president. Then, Congress has to count the electoral college votes.

"All of that has to happen by January 20," Potter told NBC News. "That is why Congress will not delay the election even a week or two, because the timeline is pretty tight."

 

[DC3]

... "All of that has to happen by January 20," Potter told NBC News. "That is why Congress will not delay the election even a week or two, because the timeline is pretty tight."

Maybe a case of Watch this Space. There are some unorthodox actors on the stage.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Maybe a case of Watch this Space. There are some unorthodox actors on the stage.

My reading of all of this is that any delay of the election result beyond 20 January (eg which could be caused by legal fight about which vote counts, delay Election Day, Congress not meeting to count electoral votes) will mean we need an acting President because the US Constitution (which cannot be changed easily) has set the term of the Presidency.

Under Presidential Succession laws, we look to the Speaker (of the next session).

PS of course very different in Australia where we have a caretaker PM/Government.

 

[DC3]

My reading of all of this is that any delay of the election result beyond 20 January (eg which could be caused by legal fight about which vote counts, delay Election Day, Congress not meeting to count electoral votes) will mean we need an acting President because the US Constitution (which cannot be changed easily) has set the term of the Presidency.

Under Presidential Succession laws, we look to the Speaker (of the next session) ...

Do you see a place for the Supreme Court becoming involved in this?

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Do you see a place for the Supreme Court becoming involved in this?

Well of course - they have a track record of 2000 Bush v Gore - but, not having read the 20th Amendment, it sounds pretty hard to interpret around a flat out ending of a Presidential term on a fixed specified day (which could be a weekday or weekend depending on the year).

Congress could change the line of Presidential Succession....but that’s pretty much it.

PS I note that an incoming President automatically becomes President at noon on 20 January, regardless of taking the Oath of Office......ie the Oath is all for photo-op ‘show’.

 

[TheRealTMA]

I'm sorry one article by the BBC is not proof-I have linked several articles that say differently.The weakness with the Oxford trial is that because of the politics they were asked to review the data early.That is not necessarily bad but goes against the stated aims of the trial.

Nothing in Medicine is absolute.As a student and the first 15 years after graduation I believed along with the great majority of Physicians that Beta Blockers were bad for heart failure.But a couple of British researchers continued to put forward evidence that they were probably beneficial.By the 90s they were proven right and now Beta Blockers are one of the main stays of treatment for heart failure.

Anyone who says this-

Is not putting a medical argument forward but a political one.
Trump is irrelevant.There were good theoretical reasons from the work with SARS and MERS to at least trial HCQ which is a cheap drug with over 60 years of usage and the precautions needed to take with it very well known.but as soon as those wanting to attack Trump got involved medicine and science went out the window.

I really don’t understand why you are pushing a discredited “medical“ opinion For HCQ against all the available advice and evidence based medical opinion.

 

[drron]

I really don’t understand why you are pushing a discredited “medical“ opinion For HCQ against all the available advice and evidence based medical opinion.

Mine is not a discredited medical opinion.there are as many studies saying some success with Chloroquine and HCG as saying not.That is not unusual in medicine.I am sorry but this discussion should be taking place in the Covid threads not being used for a political purpose here.

And you know what really annoys me.left wingers who wring their hands saying we should be helping the poor.Well HCQ is cheap and so of great benefit to poorer countries which can afford it and who can't afford the more recent treatments such as remdesivir.And guess what a paper has come out urging caution with that drug.original trials suggested only very minor liver side effects but now in more frequent usage the concern is some get major liver damage-do you suggest that should now not be used?

DG Alerts COVID-19

India has and still does use it for prophylaxis of medical staff.https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/covid-19-centre-expands-hydroxychloroquine-as-prophylactic-for-healthcare-other-frontline-workers-2233695
And still being used in Greece after your Oxford research was released.

Amid global controversy, Greece moves forward with chloroquine

Countries such as Indonesia,Malaysia,UAE and Eastern Europe still using it.

Then there is this article which I saw linked on twitter.I had to go to page 20 of google to find it-indeed there are a few who have published positive articles on HCQ have been disappeared from Google.

Beyond these studies of individual patients, we have seen what happens in large populations when these drugs are used. These have been "natural experiments." In the northern Brazil state of Pará, COVID-19 deaths were increasing exponentially. On April 6, the public hospital network purchased 75,000 doses of azithromycin and 90,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine. Over the next few weeks, authorities began distributing these medications to infected individuals. Even though new cases continued to occur, on May 22 the death rate started to plummet and is now about one-eighth what it was at the peak.

A reverse natural experiment happened in Switzerland. On May 27, the Swiss national government banned outpatient use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19. Around June 10, COVID-19 deaths increased four-fold and remained elevated. On June 11, the Swiss government revoked the ban, and on June 23 the death rate reverted to what it had been beforehand. People who die from COVID-19 live about three to five weeks from the start of symptoms, which makes the evidence of a causal relation in these experiments strong.

The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It

Contrary to what you hear, there is clear-cut medical evidence for the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.

www.newsweek.com

Note this article is dated 23/7/20.

So I don't regard the drugs as "discredited" but I do wonder why people want to deny poorer countries access to a cheap probably helpful drug rather than expensive 'Big Pharma" new drugs which have been used for only a few years at most so there is a risk of more severe side effects being discovered down the track.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

HCQ.....

Is this all moot? In the sense, Trump owns part of the company that own the patent and produces HCQ, so he can basically own all the medical supplies? He doesn’t seem to be a sharing kind of person.