Why OH Y? [Y PAX using J lavatories]

[moa999]

Every time a Y pax comes down the front the food cart makes a hasty retreat and service is often held up or slowed

But the opposite is true in the Y cabin.

Say a row 3(VA) or row 4 (QF) pax wants to go to the bathroom.
The Y trolley has to come all the way back to the front into the business cabin so they can head to the back, and again when they come back.

 

[RichardMEL]

But if you have a thief on board (and we know there are some gangs that fly specifically for this purpose), perhaps they're more likely to be buying a cheap economy ticket?

Australian Federal Police warn passengers of thieves on flights

uh yeah but I was more making a comment related to coughpit access (ie: hijackers/terrorists). I'm well aware of the gangs/theeves, specially on some intra-asia services (MH makes announcements on board more or less relating to this).. but I was more linking access to the forward lav with class of service.. and merely pointing out that a naredowell of the type interested in the coughpit could just as likely be in J as Y.

 

[Lynda2475]

Maybe they just need a policy that you need to remain seated during meal service - then no trolley dodging required.

 

[RichardMEL]

QF anouncements go along the lines of "We have two toilets in the rear for those in the main cabin and one forward for those in Business Class"

OK it's not specifically stated but it's veyr much implied. Do we really need in a world of adults and mostly reasonable people it's fairly understood.

Heavens they don't say J pax can't use the Y lav either.... oh no!

I think Australia is not so rigidly cough to rules as some other cultures are to understand the meaning and the implication of such an announcement. Now yes, the fact that fairly large numbers of people ignore it, and the vast majority of staff either don't mind or don't think it's a battle worth having in the confines of an aircraft cabin with someone needing to pee in row 5 seeing an empty bathroom a few steps away.....

... and that is a different argument as in IF it should be rigidly enforced or IF the more relaxed "common sense" attitude should prevail? Clearly there are some extreme views on both "sides" of this debate here and it makes for some entertaining reading. The sort I'd probably do while on the bog...

 

[JohnK]

I have never heard a cabin crew PA that says Y passengers must only use Y toilets.
Until they do it’s a matter of asking nicely.

On almost every QF flight these days there is an announcement there are 2 toilets down the back for the main cabin and a toilet at the front for business class customers.

I see that @MEL_Traveller has already joined the discussion but there are many reasons why an economy class passenger will use the business class toilet. The food/drinks cart is the main one.

I'm going to go to the toilet when I need to go. If the cart has gone past me in row 6 then I'll use front toilet. If I want extra drink I'll go down the back toilet. If my infant daughter is with me I'll use front toilet so that she's not taking up too much time of the cabin crew I'm asking to keep an eye on her while I use the toilet.

And no, I'm not going to board flight thinking I need to use toilet in the terminal so that I don't bother business class customers.

And where is the other thread. I wonder if this will reach the same lofty heights or sink down the toilet.

I'm against economy class passengers queuing for front toilet but for crying out loud it is just a toilet. More important things in life to worry about like losing on the pokies again and can't afford to pay the ATO bill as promised.

 

[SRS65]

On almost every QF flight these days there is an announcement there are 2 toilets down the back for the main cabin and a toilet at the front for business class customers.

I see that @MEL_Traveller has already joined the discussion but there are many reasons why an economy class passenger will use the business class toilet. The food/drinks cart is the main one.

I'm going to go to the toilet when I need to go. If the cart has gone past me in row 6 then I'll use front toilet. If I want extra drink I'll go down the back toilet. If my infant daughter is with me I'll use front toilet so that she's not taking up too much time of the cabin crew I'm asking to keep an eye on her while I use the toilet.

And no, I'm not going to board flight thinking I need to use toilet in the terminal so that I don't bother business class customers.

And where is the other thread. I wonder if this will reach the same lofty heights or sink down the toilet.

I'm against economy class passengers queuing for front toilet but for crying out loud it is just a toilet. More important things in life to worry about like losing on the pokies again and can't afford to pay the ATO bill as promised.

Understand your views - and if the cart has gone past you then asking the crew if you can enter J cabin is totally acceptable. (then abiding by their directive either way)
You purchase a class of cabin and that is the cabin and facilities you should use.
If you have QP access only then that is where you can go - and with QC Business access you have better amenities etc. so that is where you go - thus following your logic as a QP member you are now able to use the Business Class lounge as a QP only pax?
There is a premium price for Q Business and that should include a premium undisturbed J pax only space IMO.

 

[offshore171]

In my experience this is primarily a 737 problem.

I think it boils down to a single aisle aircraft versus a wide body.

In the single aisle plane, passengers are much more likely to be physically blocked from accessing the rear loos, especially when the trolleys are out. This can occur for long periods of the flight.

The crew are just being pragmatic - I'm sure many FA's have seen the consequences of a PAX who has been prevented from being able to access a loo in time.

In a wide body, you have two aisles, more "passing bays" multiple sets of loos, so far less of an issue.

 

[Quickstatus]

Will say, I love the posts on Facebook when people say its discrimination to not be allowed to use the forward toilets

Next time Im flying J, Im going to toddle my butt up to the F or Residence and grab myself a set of PJs and a shower/toilet break in F because they didnt tell me not to use the F cabin (and its many other benefits).

So long as you ask first...

 

[boomy]

This article sums it up nicely.

Using Business Class Toilets Flying Economy

"Sometimes when I've seen Economy passengers coming for the toilet I've told them to go away. Usually it works, but I shouldn't have to be the one to do that."

www.dmarge.com

“Australian culture is generally egalitarian in nature... However, QF could quickly resolve the discontent and grumbling by either delivering on the implied promise or not making the promise at all. Rules are rules and if the crew are ignoring them, that’s not really acceptable.”

“Forget the toilet. It’s time to hit up the bar.” Hear hear!

 

[muppet]

Understand your views - and if the cart has gone past you then asking the crew if you can enter J cabin is totally acceptable. (then abiding by their directive either way)
You purchase a class of cabin and that is the cabin and facilities you should use.
If you have QP access only then that is where you can go - and with QC Business access you have better amenities etc. so that is where you go - thus following your logic as a QP member you are now able to use the Business Class lounge as a QP only pax?
There is a premium price for Q Business and that should include a premium undisturbed J pax only space IMO.

I think the problem SRS65 is that the majority of the Australian population seem to have limited the ability of class to divide us, and apparently that limit is the dunny.

We accept class and money can determine which lounge you access, the size of your seat, the boarding order, the food and champagne you consume, but we draw the line at limiting access to the dunny on public transport.

It's a toilet... i think it's time to get over it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We accept class and money can determine which lounge you access, the size of your seat, the boarding order, the food and champagne you consume, but we draw the line at limiting access to the dunny on public transport.

It's a toilet... i think it's time to get over it.

Except that's not the issue.

The issue is disturbing the peace and quiet of the forward cabin; standing with your bum in the face of passengers seated, eating their meals, while you queue for the forward WC; and denying the use of the toilet for those who may genuinely need to use it (on safety or special needs grounds).

 

[suze2000]

I've never understood the 'when you gotta go, you gotta go'. Everyone manages on the train/bus/car to work. A plane is no different.

There are some medical conditions that mean exactly that. IBD for example. Urge incontinence. Small children. If you would prefer a *preventable* and *mortifying* accident to be allowed to happen to someone (and possibly those nearby) just so that you aren't disturbed in your ivory tower, there is something wrong with your priorities.
PS guess which one of these conditions I have. And yes, sometimes, it IS a matter of seconds between awareness and disaster.

 

[jase05]

There are some medical conditions that mean exactly that. IBD for example. Urge incontinence. Small children. If you would prefer a *preventable* and *mortifying* accident to be allowed to happen to someone (and possibly those nearby) just so that you aren't disturbed in your ivory tower, there is something wrong with your priorities.
PS guess which one of these conditions I have. And yes, sometimes, it IS a matter of seconds between awareness and disaster.

People are understanding of special circumstances but I’m sure the 8 Y pax in a row that all came down and used the J loos on one of my recent flights didn’t have your condition.
VA can get it right so it’s surely not that hard

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There are some medical conditions that mean exactly that. IBD for example. Urge incontinence. Small children. If you would prefer a *preventable* and *mortifying* accident to be allowed to happen to someone (and possibly those nearby) just so that you aren't disturbed in your ivory tower, there is something wrong with your priorities.
PS guess which one of these conditions I have. And yes, sometimes, it IS a matter of seconds between awareness and disaster.

For sure. I used to work with a colleague who suffered from IDB. They literally had to get off the train to work at least once, sometimes twice, to use toilets at the station.

Special needs are clearly an exception and no one is calling that out.

But consider for a moment when a person with IDB needs to go and someone is occupying the forward WC just because they couldn't be bothered to walk a few metres to the back of the plane.

 

[Zac_AU]

Special needs are clearly an exception and no one is calling that out.

It's like therapy animals - for every genuine case of need there's 30 other people taking the piss and BSing the system.

It's not about class divide, or ivory towers, it's about the freaking expensive ticket that promises you things, such as being able to use the toilets without queuing 8 deep, minimal foot traffic so you can sleep etc.

Nobody cares if it's an emergency, the main problem is that in most cases it isn't and it's just ignorance, and entitlement.

 

[Pleb Status]

For those travelling in Y who need to use the toilet more often for medical reasons or have children etc, may I suggest that they sit down the back of the aircraft near the Y toilets. These seats are generally not blocked so should not be too hard to preallocate.

That is one 'problem' easily solved....

 

[suze2000]

...except I get airsick and anxiety at the rear of the plane. I do not see this as a solution.

Look, for me, this has only actually been a serious problem once and that was while I was driving to work, googling the nearest public toilets. The IBD society of Australia actually gives out cards to members explaining the urgent need for a toilet, but honestly I'm not knocking on some stranger's door to do something so horrible to their bathroom that they may want to set it on fire afterwards (that's basically what the cards are meant for, and shops, bars etc). But I'm not unique. IBD is quite common, so is incontinence and unless you've had a small child you really don't know how urgent things can be for them (not a parent myself, found out about this when my nephew made me stop so he could pee by the side of the road because "I can't hold it any longer Aunty" three minutes after the initial request, and the gushing stream that ensued was clear indication that he'd not been aware of his need for some time).

I agree a queue 8-deep for the J lav indicates something's gone wrong in the enforcement though.

VA's rope is almost always enough of a deterrent (pax seek permission to pass it) and QF should follow suit.

 

[SRS65]

...except I get airsick and anxiety at the rear of the plane. I do not see this as a solution.

Look, for me, this has only actually been a serious problem once and that was while I was driving to work, googling the nearest public toilets. The IBD society of Australia actually gives out cards to members explaining the urgent need for a toilet, but honestly I'm not knocking on some stranger's door to do something so horrible to their bathroom that they may want to set it on fire afterwards (that's basically what the cards are meant for, and shops, bars etc). But I'm not unique. IBD is quite common, so is incontinence and unless you've had a small child you really don't know how urgent things can be for them (not a parent myself, found out about this when my nephew made me stop so he could pee by the side of the road because "I can't hold it any longer Aunty" three minutes after the initial request, and the gushing stream that ensued was clear indication that he'd not been aware of his need for some time).

I agree a queue 8-deep for the J lav indicates something's gone wrong in the enforcement though.

VA's rope is almost always enough of a deterrent (pax seek permission to pass it) and QF should follow suit.

Agree with special requirements and that is fine IMO.(make the crew aware and they will surely concur)
Also agree with a previous post where Y pax with children should take into consideration the possible scenario of an urgent toilet visit by the little one and ensure they select seats closest to the rear Y convenience.
Looks like the "rope" divider is the solution which can be easily implemented.

 

[stm1sydney]

Can someone please explain why Q staff allow Y passengers to use J toilets on a regular basis?

No, I cannot explain why QF cannot enforce something so simple (and cost-free) as ensuring Y pax use the Y toilets.

 

[stm1sydney]

It's like therapy animals - for every genuine case of need there's 30 other people taking the piss and BSing the system.

Disabled parking permits are another classic case that springs to mind.