Why OH Y? [Y PAX using J lavatories]

[boomy]

Understand and agree it seems that training is needed to stop this practice.
When asked to put my device in flight mode can I ignore this directive?
When asked to remain seated until we are at the stand to depart can I ignore this?
Effectively can I ignore on plane audio announced directives by the CSM as is seemingly allowed for status pax?

Technically it’s their plane their rules so if someone use their device they’ll be asked again to turn it off, if someone stands up they’ll be asked again to sit down and if someone from Y tries to use J toilet they should be asked to go back but they are not so ultimately it’s the crew negligence for not enforcing the rules.

 

[jase05]

Technically it’s their plane their rules so if someone use their device they’ll be asked again to turn it off, if someone stands up they’ll be asked again to sit down and if someone from Y tries to use J toilet they should be asked to go back but they are not so ultimately it’s the crew negligence for not enforcing the rules.

I have regularly seen VA crew turn back Y pax who try to cross the magical rope. QF don’t seem to care and it also has the two fold effect of delaying the meal service.

 

[tgh]

Older folks tend not to have the luxury of discretionary voidance, something unknown to most youngsters….
A polite request for J .. or even F toilet access seems reasonable to me.
Today on the bus a youngster held on to his oldies seat while my wife swung on the handrail…selfishness is not uncommon

 

[Aeolus]

Am I right in assuming it only occurs in domestic sectors? I have never seen a Y pax trying to get to J or F toilets in QF international sectors, curtains definitely helped in creating the barrier. Once I was in J and decided to walk the length of the plane and back. I was almost stopped by the FA until another recognised me, gave the nod to the other and I got thru.

 

[SRS65]

Hmm I don't recall that in the offer:

View attachment 164105

yes it's not a stated feature in the written sense - but is announced on board by the CSM that the forward toilets are for Business class pax - rear for Y.

 

[Quickstatus]

The main point is Qantas not enforcing the rule of course

Again - what rule?

You will find no written rule about this anywhere.

Most intra cabin “rules” such as this one fall within the “obey cabin crew instructions” rule. They make up whatever rules they want. Obviously some rules are defined or regulated by a higher authority. However it is also within the gift of the CSM to change those rules.

I don’t know why a Y passenger disturbs a J passenger meal service when a J passenger using the toilet does not. Must be the “great unwashed” smell.

 

[Quickstatus]

Am I right in assuming it only occurs in domestic sectors? I have never seen a Y pax trying to get to J or F toilets in QF international sectors, curtains definitely helped in creating the barrier. Once I was in J and decided to walk the length of the plane and back. I was almost stopped by the FA until another recognised me, gave the nod to the other and I got thru.

I done it in all the permutations, even Y main deck to J upper deck on the A380 and Y to F. Again ask nicely and obey instructions.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My thoughts are that unless you have safety grounds (infirm and worried about turbulence), or have special needs (including small children), there should be no reason to use the WCs outside your ticketed cabin.

Cabins are clearly marked (the placard stating 'business class only beyond this point' is the 'rule').

Asking the cabin crew to use a toilet outside your cabin is possibly an indicator to them that you have special needs (and it may be inappropriate for them to question those needs). Otherewise why esle would someone ask?

A flow of Y pax through the cabin is more disturbing than J pax doing the same... because of numbers. And it's also a potential security risk (for my belongings).

The majority of passengers in the front rows (with status) know exactly when the service carts will come into the aisle and can plan accordingly, in exactly the same way they plan their journey to work in the morning, or to the supermarket. You go before you go. Or you just have to wait until you have access to a WC.

 

[Quickstatus]

Yes special needs: “When you gotta go, you gotta go”

Of course who defines that is the reason the cabin crew are always able to use their discretion and how they use it is also their prerogative. The “rules” (for want of a better word) are not rigid but flexible enough to ensure the safe conduct of the cabin.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes special needs: “When you gotta go, you gotta go”

That's not really a special need though is it? And - a bit like using a disabled toilet - it's removing that facility from someone who might actually have a valid reason to use it.

I've never understood the 'when you gotta go, you gotta go'. Everyone manages on the train/bus/car to work. A plane is no different.

 

[jase05]

I don’t know why a Y passenger disturbs a J passenger meal service when a J passenger using the toilet does not. Must be the “great unwashed” smell.

I notice it most on the short flights such as ADL-MEL. Every time a Y pax comes down the front the food cart makes a hasty retreat and service is often held up or slowed. The opposition do it perfectly with the magic rope and it’s fantastic seeing the FA’s turn pax around and point them back towards the rear. I’ve travelled in Y hundreds of times and never thought of using a J loo, that’s just me though.

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes the "special needs" notion is a slippery slope.. how wide open is that? A bit like th enotion of being eligible for early voting in elections where, in theory, you need to have an appropriate need yet this is not enforced by the AEC (I was asked if I was eligible the other day, but not to express why). <---- keeping it topical

I suppose on domestic flights, there's nothing "special" in the fwd lav as in extra nice amenity or anything.. it's just a tiny place to do one's business.. in Business.

This only really seems to be a 737 thing and on short -medium haul routes. I've never seen pax come fwd on the 330 for example, but they also have far more lavs spead out (and indeed, more than J!) and same on 787 let alone 744 or 380.

I have seen queues and once or twice have seen pax redirected, but it seemed to me more to free up the space around the galley and say to them "Well you can use the lav down the back" rather than "If you're a Y passenger you need to go back there"

There's also the notion of security - I know it's more relaxed in Oz, but the "Stay in your ticketed cabin" thing is far more tightly policed and made note of on US carriers than it is on QF... the less people goiing forward to that lav by the coughpit is probably the better (but this is no way is to imply anything about the nature of either J or Y passengers in terms of seucrity risk - as we know they can be anywhere).

In general I do not get too fussed by Y pax using the lav if they're in the fwd Y cabin unless there's a demand for the facilities from J at any one time, which is pretty unusual.

Me, I do my best to avoid the lav full stop

 

[MEL_Traveller]

... (but this is no way is to imply anything about the nature of either J or Y passengers in terms of seucrity risk - as we know they can be anywhere).

But if you have a thief on board (and we know there are some gangs that fly specifically for this purpose), perhaps they're more likely to be buying a cheap economy ticket?

Australian Federal Police warn passengers of thieves on flights

 

[SRS65]

Again - what rule?

You will find no written rule about this anywhere.

Most intra cabin “rules” such as this one fall within the “obey cabin crew instructions” rule. They make up whatever rules they want. Obviously some rules are defined or regulated by a higher authority. However it is also within the gift of the CSM to change those rules.

I don’t know why a Y passenger disturbs a J passenger meal service when a J passenger using the toilet does not. Must be the “great unwashed” smell.

Rule is likely better termed as direction AIA.
J pax have direct sight of meal service / cart and can work to this.
Problem is once Y status pax start the ball rolling it becomes the norm for all of Y.
I don't have a problem with special needs and asking politely when appropriate - but I do find the mindset of "entitlement" by status pax travelling in Y not only rude but disrespectful.
The toilet location announcement is made and as such should be adhered to and enforced.

 

[Quickstatus]

I suspect the “toilet announcement” (if made) is on the level of a recommendation rather than something the cabin crew would want to expend their time on.

 

[SRS65]

I suspect the “toilet announcement” (if made) is on the level of a recommendation rather than something the cabin crew would want to expend their time on.

I am getting the feeling that "excuses" for using the J toilets by Y pax is creeping into the conversation.
There really is no excuse except under special needs circumstances - and in these cases common courtesy of asking crew prior entering the J cabin is required.
As previously stated - pay for Y stay in Y !
If pax adhered to the toilet announcement, and their cabin purchased as where they reside on the trip, crew would not need to enforce and could do their job with less obstruction.
This is no different to using your assigned cabin class o/head lockers - J lockers are for J pax only unless directed by crew.

 

[Denali]

VA seat map, the forward toilet is (announced) for the use of the J cabin and its coloured marked as such. The red toilets (Y cabin) are at the back.

From what I see, QF doesnt colour code/separate their toilet by cabin. Maybe something they should consider because I thought the point of paying for J included cabin exclusivity/privacy.

 

[Quickstatus]

I am getting the feeling that "excuses" for using the J toilets by Y pax is creeping into the conversation.
There really is no excuse except under special needs circumstances - and in these cases common courtesy of asking crew prior entering the J cabin is required.
As previously stated - pay for Y stay in Y !
If pax adhered to the toilet announcement, and their cabin purchased as where they reside on the trip, crew would not need to enforce and could do their job with less obstruction.
This is no different to using your assigned cabin class o/head lockers - J lockers are for J pax only unless directed by crew.

Not excuses, just stating the existing reality
I think in the end the cabin crew are not all that fussed so long as all passengers are reasonable and courteous.
It’s amazing what can be achieved with that.

There is no QF rule on who can use which toilets or which overhead storage compartment. It’s even less of an entitlement than Priority Boarding - at QF says that’s is an explicit benefit (thousr variously enforced.

If I am allowed access to a higher cabin Toilet, I see it an a operational upgrade granted by the CSM. Pay Y does not mean stay in Y. Free Upgrades are sometimes granted. I include toilet access as one. (Not that the premium toilets are actually that premium)

 

[Vic]

Effectively can I ignore on plane audio announced directives by the CSM as is seemingly allowed for status pax?

I've been explicit told, individually, by the CSM to use the front toilet when travelling in economy. Can I ignore that crew direction?
Personally, I hate the front toilet on a 737 and have used the rear toilets when travelling in business. Where do I stand in ignoring the crew direction in that situation under your rules?

 

[SRS65]

Not excuses, just stating the existing reality
I think in the end the cabin crew are not all that fussed so long as all passengers are reasonable and courteous.
It’s amazing what can be achieved with that.

There is no QF rule on who can use which toilets or which overhead storage compartment. It’s even less of an entitlement than Priority Boarding - at QF says that’s is an explicit benefit (thousr variously enforced.

I fully agree that reasonable and courteous plays a vital role in this conversation - hence Y pax not using J cabin toilets or o/head lockers.
You pay for a cabin class and that is the cabin class you stay in otherwise the determination of separate cabins becomes moot and therefore devalued.