Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[kamchatsky]

To me one of the keys of WSI success is cheaper parking than SYD. If parking is cheaper there, then a lot of people in Western Sydney will drive and park there and fly from WSI. That would negate the argument of lack of public transport

 

[elanshin]

I wouldn't be worried about airlines signing up to WSI. As operations start (assuming nothing goes lopsided) and the transportation links are smoothed out we'll see more interest in it.

Also i wouldn't be surprised if in the short to medium term the fees at WSI will be lower / subsidised to encourage airlines to add additional services

I don't think airport planners look at day 1 results and call it a success/failure. If we're at these numbers 3-5 years in then we might have a problem.

 

[AuSammy]

Agreed, and from SIN the new SQ flight only departs an hour later than the current SQ211 so chances are passengers will simply choose the airport most suitable for them to travel from.

There’s also “rapid” buses running to major western and south western transport hubs - at present they’re stated to run till 11pm but I’d expect this to be extended once TfNSW gets a better picture of what’s operating at WSI.

I don’t live in Sydney and never have. But when there is a population source greater than the sum of the whole of SA, NT, TAS combined its hard to not imagining it cant support a single airport positioned to service it.

 

[Aeryn]

Moreover, SYD Uber is not cheap. For suburbs such as Strathfield or Parramatta, it will cost around the same to catch Uber from both WSI and SYD.

Do you even know where Strathfield is?

Strathfield is the outer most boundary of inner west, 15.6km from Strathfield to SYD vs 48.9km to WSI. So WSI is 3 times the distance away, so no way will it cost the same in a uber to get to both airports from there.

Paramatta is also 10km closer to SYD than WSI, so whilst the fare difference will be less it should still be more to WSI.

South West Sydney (Liverpool, Campbeltown) will be closer to WSI, but if already on the airport line which Campbeltown is could still be quicker to take the direct train to SYD rather than multiple changes to get to WSI.

Any small savings for flying from WSI over SYD for anyone living in the East, North, Inner West or Inner South would be more than offset by the extra transport costs to get to WSI.

If you live in the South West or outer Western burbs then WSI will be cheaper if there is actually a flight from there to where you want to go.

 

[jase05]

I don’t think people factor in that as well as the local residents there are plenty of other from the rest of Australia who have to do that horrible D->I, I->D transfer and might see WSI as a good alternative.
I know plenty of folk here in ADL including us that have to fly to MEL or SYD to get where we want to go and we try to avoid SYD but if someone like VN operated from WSI and connections from ADL to WSI were good it would definitely be a consideration for us.

 

[kerfuffle]

Paramatta is also 10km closer to SYD than WSI, so whilst the fare difference will be less it should still be more to WSI.

It took a good half an hour plus to drive from Parramatta to the WSI area the day the M12 opened. I'd be using WestConnex and going to SYD instead if I was driving to an airport from Parra

 

[LionKing]

Do you even know where Strathfield is?

Strathfield is the outer most boundary of inner west, 15.6km from Strathfield to SYD vs 48.9km to WSI. So WSI is 3 times the distance away, so no way will it cost the same in a uber to get to both airports from there.

Paramatta is also 10km closer to SYD than WSI, so whilst the fare difference will be less it should still be more to WSI.

South West Sydney (Liverpool, Campbeltown) will be closer to WSI, but if already on the airport line which Campbeltown is could still be quicker to take the direct train to SYD rather than multiple changes to get to WSI.

Any small savings for flying from WSI over SYD for anyone living in the East, North, Inner West or Inner South would be more than offset by the extra transport costs to get to WSI.

If you live in the South West or outer Western burbs then WSI will be cheaper if there is actually a flight from there to where you want to go.

I think you forgot the motorways and tolls.

It cost almost $15 on Westconnex to SYD, and from SYD I think you forgot the airport surcharge.

I travel 40km from USyd to Liverpool and only take 35 minutes.

Strathfield to SYD via congested motorway will be a lot slower than going thru counter traffic to WSI.

 

[justinbrett]

I don’t think people factor in that as well as the local residents there are plenty of other from the rest of Australia who have to do that horrible D->I, I->D transfer and might see WSI as a good alternative.
I know plenty of folk here in ADL including us that have to fly to MEL or SYD to get where we want to go and we try to avoid SYD but if someone like VN operated from WSI and connections from ADL to WSI were good it would definitely be a consideration for us.

I think it will be many decades, if ever, that WSI provides more connections than MEL and BNE.

I think it will be O/D for quite some time, until at least there is a solid domestic network with hourly frequencies on the trunk routes.

 

[jase05]

I think it will be many decades, if ever, that WSI provides more connections than MEL and BNE.

I think it will be O/D for quite some time, until at least there is a solid domestic network with hourly frequencies on the trunk routes.

JQ will be doing ADL-WSI daily within the first 6 months of opening hopefully. Although that doesn’t help us it might help others depending on timing and perhaps other carriers can get in on the act in the coming years

 

[SeatBackForward]

I think it will be many decades, if ever, that WSI provides more connections than MEL and BNE.

I think it will be O/D for quite some time, until at least there is a solid domestic network with hourly frequencies on the trunk routes.

I'm sure the airlines have the stats about this, but we probably all thing of the golden triangle for suits who work around the CBD of respective cities, but without a doubt, most business travellers are spread across all sorts of roles and industries, many of which will be serviced closer to WSI than SYD,

I wouldn't dismiss WSI becoming a business commuters airport easily.

 

[Aeryn]

I think you forgot the motorways and tolls.

No, to get to WSI you will still need use motorways from Strathfield M4 and M7 (so still $15). If you were to take Liverpool/Paramatta Rd and all surface roads to avoid tolls it will take hours.

It cost almost $15 on Westconnex to SYD, and from SYD I think you forgot the airport surcharge.

I regularly get Uber from Haberfield/Ashfield M4 entrance to SYD T3 and its $27-35 depending on time of day and takes 12 mins from front door to terminal entrance. Add max 10 mins and $10 extra to go from Strathfield instead as entering M4 1 entrance earlier.

I travel 40km from USyd to Liverpool and only take 35 minutes.

At what time of day? Ive driven Strathfield to Liverpool Hospital many times and that takes 35 mins by Liverpool Rd late night adhering to speed limit. You'd be easily another 20 mins from USyd to Strathfield in peak times. Only way to do in 35 mins at would be using toll roads probably at non-peak times and that's going to add $8-$20.

Strathfield to SYD via congested motorway will be a lot slower than going thru counter traffic to WSI.

The congestion on the M4 is usually at the Anzac bridge turn-off, traffic toward airport M8 flows well and now that the connector to the airport terminals is open you no longer get the Gardiners Bay Rd nonsense adding 10 mins to get from exit to the terminal.

Anyway i'll hapily takes any bet that says Uber from Strathfield to SYD will take longer and cost more than Strathfield to WSI; because the tolls will be the same but the distance to WSI is still 3 times, and that costs.

 

[justinbrett]

I'm sure the airlines have the stats about this, but we probably all thing of the golden triangle for suits who work around the CBD of respective cities, but without a doubt, most business travellers are spread across all sorts of roles and industries, many of which will be serviced closer to WSI than SYD,

I wouldn't dismiss WSI becoming a business commuters airport easily.

My comments were on the viability of WSI being a hub airport for D-I connections.

But yes I think it's going to look somewhere between NTL, OOL and CBR in terms of domestic flights.

JQ will be doing ADL-WSI daily within the first 6 months of opening hopefully. Although that doesn’t help us it might help others depending on timing and perhaps other carriers can get in on the act in the coming years

But again that was in relation to D-I connections - a daily domestic flight to perhaps a daily international flight, going to be a long shot for suitable connections, and you're screwed if your flight is late.

Why wouldn't pax from ADL transfer through MEL?

 

[jase05]

Why wouldn't pax from ADL transfer through MEL?

They do bit often depends on schedules, options and other factors so a lot will depend on the offerings at WSI. Yeah there won’t be much to start with but hopefully within a few years some options become available

 

[justinbrett]

They do bit often depends on schedules, options and other factors so a lot will depend on the offerings at WSI. Yeah there won’t be much to start with but hopefully within a few years some options become available

Also you said that was to avoid the "horrible" SYD D-I connection.

I'd still prefer that to a JQ domestic connection where no bags are checked through and no BPs printed for the international flight. You're swapping the 15 minute bus ride for a long wait for bags at the carousel and then re-check in.

If you can't get a well timed connection through MEL I've got news for you about WSI

 

[mrsterryn]

But isn't the public transport still a bus and a train combination? There is no current train station there ?

 

[jase05]

Also you said that was to avoid the "horrible" SYD D-I connection.

I'd still prefer that to a JQ domestic connection where no bags are checked through and no BPs printed for the international flight. You're swapping the 15 minute bus ride for a long wait for bags at the carousel and then re-check in.

If you can't get a well timed connection through MEL I've got news for you about WSI

under no illusions that WSI won’t have many options for years but hoped one day it gets to the point where it at least provides people with another option.
For us it’s more about the timings than connections but it will be years down the track no doubt.
At the meantime though it’s much needed and fantastic as it will earn us some very nice bonuses and a lot more profit

 

[SeatBackForward]

But isn't the public transport still a bus and a train combination? There is no current train station there ?

Yep, metro is late and wont be ready in time for Airport opening. But even then it'll be Metro + Train. putting the Airport metro only to St Marys is the type of decision only a politician could've made.

It's fair to say that access to WSI will be primarily by road for a while, definitely until the metro (or rail) connections improve.

 

[elanshin]

But isn't the public transport still a bus and a train combination? There is no current train station there ?

Yes but i don't think we're going to be judging the future success of the airport on the current infrastructure availability. The metro line will go in and probably an extension of the leppington line when they figure it out.

 

[mbe1510]

Looking at flights WSI to SIN return in February next year is $915 return compared to $970 from SYD so a saving of $55 per person or $220 for a family of four.

Both airports are run by different operators who will compete to lure airlines. Plans are that this airport will eventually become the third CBD in Sydney so over the coming decade a lot more people will be living around this area.

 

[RooFlyer]

Also if arriving passengers are choosing to change for the free bus to St Mary's then train/bus to city, I fear they will be stabbed with machete because that is a crime hotspot.

Well, not being from Sydney I regard the whole lot as a crime hotspot. But I’m not sure about being stabbed by a machete will necessarily be the crime I’m thinking of next time I’m there. I hear knives are more of a problem.

But I would take my chances at any well scheduled and well priced international flight out of WSI. God who wants to use SYD if they don’t have to.