Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[Aussie_flyer]

So you’re arguing JQ could charge a premium for flights to DPS from WSI vs SYD?

VA isn’t even on board for WSI to MEL/BNE.

Potentially yes. The Bali market is not the same as the MEL/SYD/BNE market

 

[SeaWolf]

Why give up proven demand from the major ports (which have feeder routes) for a gamble on WSI?

The only reason I can think of is if they thought they could keep the same profitability operating it out of WSI and free up a valuable peak time slot at SYD for a service that would be even more lucrative.

 

[LionKing]

and a 10:20pm arrival into Western Sydney.... might just make it into the city by midnight if you're first off the plane, probably no chance by train though.

Unless the fare is cheap enough to offset the expensive taxi/Uber to get out there, we'll stick to SYD.

Good for people who live out that way though. For many this will be almost as inconvenient as flying into NTL. Or going to AVV instead of MEL.

Also if arriving passengers are choosing to change for the free bus to St Mary's then train/bus to city, I fear they will be stabbed with machete because that is a crime hotspot.

Moreover, SYD Uber is not cheap. For suburbs such as Strathfield or Parramatta, it will cost around the same to catch Uber from both WSI and SYD.

Perhaps Uber and Hire Car will be especially popular in WSI.

 

[justinbrett]

The Bali market is not the same as the MEL/SYD/BNE market

I agree - DPS is a leisure market and much more price sensitive than MEL/BNE. That’s why it’s mostly JQ vs QF.

The only reason I can think of is if they thought they could keep the same profitability operating it out of WSI and free up a valuable peak time slot at SYD for a service that would be even more lucrative.

JQ has heaps of slots at SYD which lets them manage them internally - if there is some theoretical route that has huge demand they could add that now and drop down a domestic frequency on an underperforming route. No need to mess with a highly successful route that has capacity restrictions.

 

[AuSammy]

Also if arriving passengers are choosing to change for the free bus to St Mary's then train/bus to city, I fear they will be stabbed with machete because that is a crime hotspot.

Perhaps Uber and Hire Car will be especially popular in WSI.

Intriguing that so many posters on here assume passengers arriving at WSI will want to travel to the city centre.

With what is it?, 3m plus people, living in western Sydney suburbs and substantial industry and transport hubs out there, surely most who select to travel to this airport would have zero interest in travelling to the city or eastern suburbs.

 

[SeatBackForward]

With what is it?, 3m plus people, living in western Sydney suburbs and substantial industry and transport hubs out there, surely most who select to travel to this airport would have zero interest in travelling to the city or eastern suburbs.

Just bear in mind there are many Sydney residents for whom "Western Sydney" means Chatswood or Marrickville.

 

[Chatswood]

Intriguing that so many posters on here assume passengers arriving at WSI will want to travel to the city centre.

With what is it?, 3m plus people, living in western Sydney suburbs and substantial industry and transport hubs out there, surely most who select to travel to this airport would have zero interest in travelling to the city or eastern suburbs.

Agreed, and from SIN the new SQ flight only departs an hour later than the current SQ211 so chances are passengers will simply choose the airport most suitable for them to travel from.

There’s also “rapid” buses running to major western and south western transport hubs - at present they’re stated to run till 11pm but I’d expect this to be extended once TfNSW gets a better picture of what’s operating at WSI.

 

[kamchatsky]

To me one of the keys of WSI success is cheaper parking than SYD. If parking is cheaper there, then a lot of people in Western Sydney will drive and park there and fly from WSI. That would negate the argument of lack of public transport

 

[elanshin]

I wouldn't be worried about airlines signing up to WSI. As operations start (assuming nothing goes lopsided) and the transportation links are smoothed out we'll see more interest in it.

Also i wouldn't be surprised if in the short to medium term the fees at WSI will be lower / subsidised to encourage airlines to add additional services

I don't think airport planners look at day 1 results and call it a success/failure. If we're at these numbers 3-5 years in then we might have a problem.

 

[AuSammy]

Agreed, and from SIN the new SQ flight only departs an hour later than the current SQ211 so chances are passengers will simply choose the airport most suitable for them to travel from.

There’s also “rapid” buses running to major western and south western transport hubs - at present they’re stated to run till 11pm but I’d expect this to be extended once TfNSW gets a better picture of what’s operating at WSI.

I don’t live in Sydney and never have. But when there is a population source greater than the sum of the whole of SA, NT, TAS combined its hard to not imagining it cant support a single airport positioned to service it.

 

[Aeryn]

Moreover, SYD Uber is not cheap. For suburbs such as Strathfield or Parramatta, it will cost around the same to catch Uber from both WSI and SYD.

Do you even know where Strathfield is?

Strathfield is the outer most boundary of inner west, 15.6km from Strathfield to SYD vs 48.9km to WSI. So WSI is 3 times the distance away, so no way will it cost the same in a uber to get to both airports from there.

Paramatta is also 10km closer to SYD than WSI, so whilst the fare difference will be less it should still be more to WSI.

South West Sydney (Liverpool, Campbeltown) will be closer to WSI, but if already on the airport line which Campbeltown is could still be quicker to take the direct train to SYD rather than multiple changes to get to WSI.

Any small savings for flying from WSI over SYD for anyone living in the East, North, Inner West or Inner South would be more than offset by the extra transport costs to get to WSI.

If you live in the South West or outer Western burbs then WSI will be cheaper if there is actually a flight from there to where you want to go.

 

[jase05]

I don’t think people factor in that as well as the local residents there are plenty of other from the rest of Australia who have to do that horrible D->I, I->D transfer and might see WSI as a good alternative.
I know plenty of folk here in ADL including us that have to fly to MEL or SYD to get where we want to go and we try to avoid SYD but if someone like VN operated from WSI and connections from ADL to WSI were good it would definitely be a consideration for us.

 

[kerfuffle]

Paramatta is also 10km closer to SYD than WSI, so whilst the fare difference will be less it should still be more to WSI.

It took a good half an hour plus to drive from Parramatta to the WSI area the day the M12 opened. I'd be using WestConnex and going to SYD instead if I was driving to an airport from Parra

 

[LionKing]

Do you even know where Strathfield is?

Strathfield is the outer most boundary of inner west, 15.6km from Strathfield to SYD vs 48.9km to WSI. So WSI is 3 times the distance away, so no way will it cost the same in a uber to get to both airports from there.

Paramatta is also 10km closer to SYD than WSI, so whilst the fare difference will be less it should still be more to WSI.

South West Sydney (Liverpool, Campbeltown) will be closer to WSI, but if already on the airport line which Campbeltown is could still be quicker to take the direct train to SYD rather than multiple changes to get to WSI.

Any small savings for flying from WSI over SYD for anyone living in the East, North, Inner West or Inner South would be more than offset by the extra transport costs to get to WSI.

If you live in the South West or outer Western burbs then WSI will be cheaper if there is actually a flight from there to where you want to go.

I think you forgot the motorways and tolls.

It cost almost $15 on Westconnex to SYD, and from SYD I think you forgot the airport surcharge.

I travel 40km from USyd to Liverpool and only take 35 minutes.

Strathfield to SYD via congested motorway will be a lot slower than going thru counter traffic to WSI.

 

[justinbrett]

I don’t think people factor in that as well as the local residents there are plenty of other from the rest of Australia who have to do that horrible D->I, I->D transfer and might see WSI as a good alternative.
I know plenty of folk here in ADL including us that have to fly to MEL or SYD to get where we want to go and we try to avoid SYD but if someone like VN operated from WSI and connections from ADL to WSI were good it would definitely be a consideration for us.

I think it will be many decades, if ever, that WSI provides more connections than MEL and BNE.

I think it will be O/D for quite some time, until at least there is a solid domestic network with hourly frequencies on the trunk routes.

 

[jase05]

I think it will be many decades, if ever, that WSI provides more connections than MEL and BNE.

I think it will be O/D for quite some time, until at least there is a solid domestic network with hourly frequencies on the trunk routes.

JQ will be doing ADL-WSI daily within the first 6 months of opening hopefully. Although that doesn’t help us it might help others depending on timing and perhaps other carriers can get in on the act in the coming years

 

[SeatBackForward]

I think it will be many decades, if ever, that WSI provides more connections than MEL and BNE.

I think it will be O/D for quite some time, until at least there is a solid domestic network with hourly frequencies on the trunk routes.

I'm sure the airlines have the stats about this, but we probably all thing of the golden triangle for suits who work around the CBD of respective cities, but without a doubt, most business travellers are spread across all sorts of roles and industries, many of which will be serviced closer to WSI than SYD,

I wouldn't dismiss WSI becoming a business commuters airport easily.

 

[Aeryn]

I think you forgot the motorways and tolls.

No, to get to WSI you will still need use motorways from Strathfield M4 and M7 (so still $15). If you were to take Liverpool/Paramatta Rd and all surface roads to avoid tolls it will take hours.

It cost almost $15 on Westconnex to SYD, and from SYD I think you forgot the airport surcharge.

I regularly get Uber from Haberfield/Ashfield M4 entrance to SYD T3 and its $27-35 depending on time of day and takes 12 mins from front door to terminal entrance. Add max 10 mins and $10 extra to go from Strathfield instead as entering M4 1 entrance earlier.

I travel 40km from USyd to Liverpool and only take 35 minutes.

At what time of day? Ive driven Strathfield to Liverpool Hospital many times and that takes 35 mins by Liverpool Rd late night adhering to speed limit. You'd be easily another 20 mins from USyd to Strathfield in peak times. Only way to do in 35 mins at would be using toll roads probably at non-peak times and that's going to add $8-$20.

Strathfield to SYD via congested motorway will be a lot slower than going thru counter traffic to WSI.

The congestion on the M4 is usually at the Anzac bridge turn-off, traffic toward airport M8 flows well and now that the connector to the airport terminals is open you no longer get the Gardiners Bay Rd nonsense adding 10 mins to get from exit to the terminal.

Anyway i'll hapily takes any bet that says Uber from Strathfield to SYD will take longer and cost more than Strathfield to WSI; because the tolls will be the same but the distance to WSI is still 3 times, and that costs.

 

[justinbrett]

I'm sure the airlines have the stats about this, but we probably all thing of the golden triangle for suits who work around the CBD of respective cities, but without a doubt, most business travellers are spread across all sorts of roles and industries, many of which will be serviced closer to WSI than SYD,

I wouldn't dismiss WSI becoming a business commuters airport easily.

My comments were on the viability of WSI being a hub airport for D-I connections.

But yes I think it's going to look somewhere between NTL, OOL and CBR in terms of domestic flights.

JQ will be doing ADL-WSI daily within the first 6 months of opening hopefully. Although that doesn’t help us it might help others depending on timing and perhaps other carriers can get in on the act in the coming years

But again that was in relation to D-I connections - a daily domestic flight to perhaps a daily international flight, going to be a long shot for suitable connections, and you're screwed if your flight is late.

Why wouldn't pax from ADL transfer through MEL?

 

[jase05]

Why wouldn't pax from ADL transfer through MEL?

They do bit often depends on schedules, options and other factors so a lot will depend on the offerings at WSI. Yeah there won’t be much to start with but hopefully within a few years some options become available