Tiger finally announces MEL-SYD

[Nigelinoz]

Purely out of interest I just did dummy bookings for a flight Mel-Syd on
Monday July 14.
These were the basic fares I came up with.
Qantas $85.00
Virgin Blue $85.00
Jetstar $69.00
Tiger $78.00
none of the above included credit card fees,etc.
Jetstar seems to be the winner here but I still find Avalon inconvenient so would probably choose Qantas or Virgin if I really wanted to travel on that day.

 

[kpc]

Purely out of interest I just did dummy bookings for a flight Mel-Syd on
Monday July 14.
These were the basic fares I came up with.
Qantas $85.00
Virgin Blue $85.00
Jetstar $69.00
Tiger $78.00
none of the above included credit card fees,etc.
Jetstar seems to be the winner here but I still find Avalon inconvenient so would probably choose Qantas or Virgin if I really wanted to travel on that day.

But with QF (& J*, I think) you can Bpay if you have an Aust bank account, so you can avoid the credit card surcharges. With DJ, and I presume, Tiger, you don't have that option

 

[FL360]

Two months ago I have found the JQ flights I wanted on the web.
call them up and said the direct payment tab is not working,
the CS rep happly took my cc details and charged me to my credit card
the direct payment amount

All you need is ask...

But with QF (& J*, I think) you can Bpay if you have an Aust bank account, so you can avoid the credit card surcharges. With DJ, and I presume, Tiger, you don't have that option

 

[pauly7]

Thankfully Tiger is excluded from our BFOD policy that I sometimes fly under. It is quote 'too unreliable for business travel' from our Travel team

 

[comint]

It is quote 'too unreliable for business travel'...

Whoever wrote this, needs to reassess their job opportunities.

If reliability is a function of on-time performance & cancellations, then Tiger is Australia's MOST reliable airline!

 

[FL360]

comint,

TR's on time performance is measure against their (last minute) scheduled
flights, not against the pax's original booking departure date/time.

Image a group (10) of business pax from the same company booked a MEL=>OOL flight with TR 6 months ago to attend a conference which last three days, and they are to present their ideas on the first day,

-1. The PA have to tell them about the 45 mins check in and the over limit charge.

three months down the track, Tiger change their flight (which is 3 mths from departure date from tues 7am to tues 5pm), the group have to re-book on another flight. This has happened before.


1. The PA have to be very pro-active to notice the change via email and
have to check the new plan to see what changed. If he/she is not already very busy.

2. The PA probably have to re-book with another carrier (given their frustration) with significant higher cost (coz the date are nearer now), and re-fund (less about $?? in fees) if there are any will take forever.

3. If the PA was away or did not notice the change of departure time, a disaster will happen and he/she would probably be shown the door :shock:. TR would not care less.

Simple as that, frequency and flexibility is what business pax wants...

Whoever wrote this, needs to reassess their job opportunities.

If reliability is a function of on-time performance & cancellations, then Tiger is Australia's MOST reliable airline!

 

[comint]

...three months down the track, Tiger change their flight (which is 3 mths from departure date from tues 7am to tues 5pm), the group have to re-book on another flight. This has happened before.

All airlines change their schedules. It would seem to be a fairly seasonal thing. (Particularly at DJ, JQ & TT, which all fly OOL.) Tiger currently operates 3 services a day MEL-OOL, and when they do change a flight, they are very amenable about putting you onto any other service if it is more suitable.

As for frequency & flexibility, LCCs are offering businesses (who hire staff with a degree of time management skills) the opportunity to do more for less! More frequent travel for their staff at lower prices. Giving business the flexibility to achieve more from a mobile workforce.

As for "flexible fare conditions" on domestic air fares, that is such a dinosaur. All Tiger's fares are flexible up to 4 hours prior to departure. Why pay hundreds of dollars up front for flexibility that you mostly won't need. Over time, flexible tickets add up to a ridiculous waste of money. (On the odd occasion that you might have to buy a last minute priced ticket, the savings made over time, more than make up for it.)

 

[FL360]

MEL=>OOL was used as an example, it could easily be MEL=>ADL, MEL=>PER, or even MEL=>SYD...

For TR if they change you flight time usually they will send you an email,
and next is up to you contacting them to arrange another flight departure which is free of charge, IF they have seats left on the flight you want to change to, otherwise all the best they can do is to give you a refund, all your other travel arrangements are gone. At least with full service they have more frequencies and/or different routings which can get you there.

TR allows you to change your departure up to 4 hours, however as it will be last minute booking the fare will increase significantly.

I believe TR is a good product for "arrival time - non essential" travel.
Not so good for business....

In Europe what pax do is if the LCCs are so un-reliable and so cheap
they will book two tickets with two different provider within similar time, the other throw away ticket as insurance. I guess the same can be done for TR, just book two flights, before and after, but is this practical ?

and when they do change a flight, they are very amenable about putting you onto any other service if it is more suitable.

All Tiger's fares are flexible up to 4 hours prior to departure.

 

[nlagalle]

Whoever wrote this, needs to reassess their job opportunities.

If reliability is a function of on-time performance & cancellations, then Tiger is Australia's MOST reliable airline!

I seriously doubt that... I don't know anyone using TT for business travel.

As pointed out their OT performance doesn't include scheduled changes etc. and the 45min cutoff doesn't bode too well with people either.

I'll stick to QF/JQ or at worst DJ

 

[comint]

…if they change you flight time usually they will send you an email, and next is up to you contacting them to arrange another flight departure which is free of charge, IF they have seats left on the flight you want to change to, otherwise all the best they can do is to give you a refund…

Um, this is STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE. Perhaps you don’t fly very regularly, and haven’t experienced schedule changes. (Same process happens on QF, DJ & JQ.)

At least with full service they have more frequencies and/or different routings which can get you there.

Qantas simply can’t get you to OOL! And over the next few years, there will be fewer and fewer places that Qantas can get you, as it devolves its domestic network over to Jetstar.

I believe TR is a good product for "arrival time - non essential" travel.

Well then you need to re-educate yourself regarding on-time performance, as that is where Tiger is the domestic leader! Want to arrive on-time, need to fly Tiger!

 

[FL360]

Sorry, again I mean

I believe TR is a good product for "(original booking) arrival time- non essential" travel.

TR seems to make a lot of time/schedule changes with more than 3-4 hours difference, the reason is beyond me... make no mistake other carriers make time changes too, but usually within 1 hour....

Well then you need to re-educate yourself regarding on-time performance, as that is where Tiger is the domestic leader! Want to arrive on-time, need to fly Tiger!

 

[mcflyer]

The point I have been trying to make is that satisfactory travelling experience is not leaving on time at the expense of providing service. Anyhow I shall see first hand when I use them for my Easter holidays. Their up front "service" has turned me off them thereafter.... I'll not be complaining about the 28" seat pitch because I read that beforehand [not that cattle-truck conditions is what brings you to book with any airline]. I have preferred Korean in flying to Europe previously because they surprisingly had better seat pitch than just about any I have flown in economy, but I choose others for convenience and now I am a QF FF my choices will be different again.

 

[pauly7]

Whoever wrote this, needs to reassess their job opportunities.

I think you need to calm down, your posts are becoming inappropriate and a bit aggressive - do you work for Tiger perhaps? If so you could actually help answer the questions and concerns that people have here appropriately

To clarify, because of their lack of frequency on almost all routes any delay or cancellation is a big deal for business (whereas QF/JQ and even DJ have the flexibility to solve these problems more easily). Travel also have a concern with Tigers ability to service business customers in general (back of house etc).

I hope this helps you understand.

 

[nlagalle]

Um, this is STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE. Perhaps you don’t fly very regularly, and haven’t experienced schedule changes. (Same process happens on QF, DJ & JQ.)

I have had plenty, and only ever delayed by less than 1 hour, or even left earlier. Can TT do that?

Qantas simply can’t get you to OOL! And over the next few years, there will be fewer and fewer places that Qantas can get you, as it devolves its domestic network over to Jetstar.

What makes you think all DOM travel will be JQ? i can't see QF removing their Cityflyer services

Well then you need to re-educate yourself regarding on-time performance, as that is where Tiger is the domestic leader! Want to arrive on-time, need to fly Tiger!

And how many flights did TT have compared to JQ QF or DJ?? TT operate a handful of services compared to the others. And if you are going to compare, compare the stats on the same routes, not overall.

 

[comint]

What makes you think all DOM travel will be JQ?

I do not think ALL Qantas domestic routes will go to JQ, but a great deal of it already has, and I am sure there is a lot more to go.

Can TT do that?

As you point out, depends on the routes & frequency. But this is the same for any airline. For example, I have recently received a Jetstar Schedule Change Email, changing my flight from a 3.20pm departure to a 7am departure (as JQ moves to a single daily SYD-CNS flight).

And if you are going to compare, compare the stats on the same routes, not overall.

I fundamentally disagree with this proposition. Airline performance must be judged as a whole. Otherwise you end up with airlines that schedule frequency, and then fail to deliver it, instead using regular cancellations and shuffling passengers onto later services, as well as “moving” delays (via aircraft redeployment) onto less “sensitive” routes - all to improve the look of their figures!

 

[nlagalle]

I fundamentally disagree with this proposition. Airline performance must be judged as a whole. Otherwise you end up with airlines that schedule frequency, and then fail to deliver it, instead using regular cancellations and shuffling passengers onto later services, as well as “moving” delays (via aircraft redeployment) onto less “sensitive” routes - all to improve the look of their figures!

Why? As it might change the figures? the other 3 airlines operate a lot more flights than TT. They also operate routes that TT don't. If you wish to compare how well their performance is, match it with the same routes, not overall. It's a skewed figure to start with.

 

[nlagalle]

Well then you need to re-educate yourself regarding on-time performance, as that is where Tiger is the domestic leader! Want to arrive on-time, need to fly Tiger!

Actually I suggest you do...

http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/14/Files/BITRE OTP Report Jan 2009.pdf

"Of the major domestic airlines, Qantas achieved the highest level of on time departures for January 2009 at 86.7 per cent, followed by Virgin Blue at 85.3 per cent, Jetstar at 83.4 per cent and Tiger Airways at 82.7 per cent."

and

"Qantas also achieved the highest on time arrivals among the major domestic airlines at 88.9 per cent, trailed by Jetstar at 86.7 per cent, Virgin Blue at 85.3 per cent and Tiger Airways at 82.8 per cent. Regional Express was the best performing regional airline for on time arrivals at 83.6 per cent, followed by QantasLink at 83.5 per cent and Skywest at 3.0 per cent."

So who is the best performing airline?

 

[mcflyer]

So who is the best performing airline?

On time departures is only one measure of performance. Another is customer service: more measures: comfort, inflight service, value for money, support for pax when problems occur, booking support, etc etc....

 

[drron]

Pauly7, in regards to reliability, for some reason you wish to misrepresent Australia’s (currently) most reliable airline (the federal government defines airline reliability, in regular reports, using two major criteria – measuring cancellations & on-time performance).

As you point out, depends on the routes & frequency. But this is the same for any airline. For example, I have recently received a Jetstar Schedule Change Email, changing my flight from a 3.20pm departure to a 7am departure (as JQ moves to a single daily SYD-CNS flight).

I fundamentally disagree with this proposition. Airline performance must be judged as a whole. Otherwise you end up with airlines that schedule frequency, and then fail to deliver it, instead using regular cancellations and shuffling passengers onto later services, as well as “moving” delays (via aircraft redeployment) onto less “sensitive” routes - all to improve the look of their figures!

But it really depends on definitions.For example TT seems to use the term Rescheduled rather than cancelled so do these flights show up on the statistics?I really dont know.However you certainly get the impression from peoples stories that rescheduling seems to happen frequently with TT given the smaller number of flights they have.If rescheduling does not count on the official statistics it would seem TT have heeded your last paragraph.

 

[Mal]

But it really depends on definitions.For example TT seems to use the term Rescheduled rather than cancelled so do these flights show up on the statistics?

http://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/aviation/otphome.aspx

Definitions

A flight arrival is counted as "on time" if it arrived at the gate within 15 minutes of the scheduled arrival time shown in the carriers' schedule. Neither diverted nor cancelled flights count as on time. Similarly, a flight departure is counted as "on time" if it departs the gate within 15 minutes of the scheduled departure time shown in the carriers' schedule.

A flight is regarded as a cancellation if it is cancelled or rescheduled less than 7 days prior to its scheduled departure time.

On time performance is measured as the number of flights operating on time as a percentage of the number of flights operated on any particular sector. Cancellations are measured as the number of flights cancelled within 7 days of scheduled departure as a percentage of the number of flights scheduled for that particular sector.