Tiger Airways Australia in Mega Trouble

[JohnK]

About every fourth Domestic Saturday booking I have between MEL/SYD/BNE is affected by the removal of unpurchased capacity from these routes during "quiet" periods. This generally happens within 36 hours of the flight.

Yesterday evening there was 2 cancellations SYD-CBR vv and I think a cancellation SYD-MEL and/or SYD-BNE.

Also QF is in a better position to substitute smaller aircraft closer to departure if they notice that the loads are light. Three months ago when I booked my flights through to the end of the year I had made sure that I booked flights with a 767 or at worse a 738. I have lost count of the number of times they have substituted a 734 on my flights and last night the 734 was nowhere near capacity. Don't get me wrong 734s are OK if sitting up the front in an all economy configuration.

As it stands my last return for the year is still sceduled for 767s and I hope it stays that way....

 

[JohnK]

Qantas are able to cancel more often, and hence do, because there are so many people/companies that will put up with it and not transfer their business to the competition for whatever reason (and yes there are valid reasons).

Then I must be one of the unluckiest commuters in Australia. I don't mean to knock Virgin as I do not fly with them very often but I had a SYD-BNE return on DJ last week. The SYD-BNE flight was cancelled and I received a call from DJ around noon to swap to another flight and then the BNE-SYD flight was delayed for well over 20 minutes because we were waiting for documentation. I hate it when they rush everyone to board and then they are not ready to take off.

I do not remember the last time QF cancelled one of my flights.

 

[crazydave98]

Then I must be one of the unluckiest commuters in Australia. I don't mean to knock Virgin as I do not fly with them very often

Maybe the problem is too small a sample size and if you flew us more often your odds would improve?

 

[Standby]

Actually Virgin Blue has more departures than Qantas (but does it with fewer and newer aircraft). In August for example Virgin Blue flew 11,168 sectors compared to Qantas 10,789 (note that QantasLink is counted separately)
http://www.btre.gov.au/statistics/aviation/otphome.aspx
Qantas are able to cancel more often, and hence do, because there are so many people/companies that will put up with it and not transfer their business to the competition for whatever reason (and yes there are valid reasons).

To compare like to like on shud DJ exclude EMBs.from their total.afterall
they operate on "regional" markets up predominately against Qantaslink otherwise total Qantas/Qantaslink flts seems to average about 17,000 to DJs 10-11,000 per month.
Also excluding the A.L.E.A dispute (Aug07-Apr08) cancelation rates are actually not dissimilar between DJ and QF from the data and Qantas had better ontime performance for 8 of the 13 months (Aug07 to Aug08) which included the 4 months impacted by the dispute..Dave there are some very good numbers for DJ (like OTP in MAY of 87%..well done)
but there are also a number of months weher DJ canc more flights than QF...Niether is perfect but some balance in yr use of numbers would be nice

 

[NM]

Maybe the problem is too small a sample size and if you flew us more often your odds would improve?

I like your openness, Dave :mrgreen:. But, yes, statistically it does seem like a small sample. I too have experienced 50% of my DJ flights being delayed by more than 2 hours. But I do not really think that a fair reflection on DJ timeliness as most QF flights were also similarly delayed that day. But as I refused to purchase $8 beers in the terminal bar that Friday afternoon, I was a little grumpy by the time we finally boarded.

A sample size reflective of my personal experiences may impact my own opinion, but does not a trend define .

 

[JohnK]

Maybe the problem is too small a sample size and if you flew us more often your odds would improve?

How many flights do I need before it is considered a reasonable sample size?

I have now had 11 DJ flights this year and my father 4. He has never flown domestic before flying DJ for the first time in July. His first statements to me were "I have to pay for coffee?" and "Are all domestic flights this late?". He does not have any expectations now and expects everyone of his flights to be late. He is flying up to BNE next week so another couple of DJ flights to add to the sample size. Now if I can only convince my mother to visit BNE once in a while....

 

[comint]

I too have experienced 50% of my DJ flights being delayed by more than 2 hours. But I do not really think that a fair reflection on DJ timeliness as most QF flights were also similarly delayed that day.

Dealing with delays/cancellations is a key service differential in my experiences with Qantas & Virgin Blue.

First up, I generally travel only on the cheapest type of fare; Red e-deal, Go Fare, Jetsaver Light… I am discovering, that this means when things do go wrong, the differences between QF & DJ are stark.

On a recent day trip with DJ, the outbound morning segment was delayed by an hour. In similar situations on Qantas (if I am not already on the last flight coming back) where I determine that due to my delayed arrival I won’t have enough time on the ground, a simple word to a Qantas rep, and my return flight is changed; no problems, no extra charges. Qantas takes responsibility for its delays.

Same situation on Virgin Blue, and because I am not on a Flexible fare, there is nothing the person at the gate can do. (First up she checks to see why the delay occurred, and after a phone call advises it is a mechanical issue. Not that I really care about the reason for the delay, but apparently at DJ this is important, because like a LCC, if it is weather related then it’s not their problem. Contrasting this to Qantas, who has phoned me mid-morning, on other occasions, to advise that they are expecting network problems due to weather later in the day, and wanted to let me know that if I can get to the airport early, they would like to put me on an earlier flight, red-e-deal remember. Qantas takes responsibility for its delays.)

Anyway, back to the Virgin gate, another phone call (to a supervisor perhaps), and the final answer is no, nothing they can do, other than charge a change fee & fare difference. (I also want to point out that the DJ rep at the gate delivered all this news in a loud voice, aimed towards all the other delayed “guests” in the area.)

So my analysis – Qantas empowers its staff to make “fair go” business decisions, Virgin Blue isn’t interested in my business unless I travel on outrageously expensive “flexible tickets”, status on Virgin Blue delivers purely what it says it will, where as at Qantas status delivers a whole lot more than just by the book!

 

[NM]

Dealing with delays/cancellations is a key service differential in my experiences with Qantas & Virgin Blue.

And as a OW Emerald I expect Qantas to work hard at sorting things out for me. As a Virgin nobody, I have no expectations that they will do anymore for me than for any other passenger. I expect my expectations would be met by both carriers, so cannot complain.

 

[Anna]

Maybe the problem is too small a sample size and if you flew us more often your odds would improve?

I've booked a total of 6 sectors on DJ in the past (2 for me and 4 for others, all domestic).

Out of those 6, 2 were cancelled at short notice and the other 4 were late.

There is no incentive to increase the sample size with (non) service like that. DJ is unreliable. End of story.

I can't remember QF ever cancelling a flight I have been booked on. Late, sure, but never cancelled.

 

[serfty]

With 1000+ flights booked on Qantas, I have had a few cancelled. (Once bumped to AirNZ :shock

Of course, that a rather large sample size ...

 

[oz_mark]

From my small sample of Virgin Blue flights (2), they have all departed on time.....

From my small sample of Jetstar flights (1), the have all failed to depart on time.

On Qantas I have been cancelled, rescheduled, bumped to Rex :shock:, and delayed!

 

[ANstar]

There is no incentive to increase the sample size with (non) service like that. DJ is unreliable. End of story.

I can't remember QF ever cancelling a flight I have been booked on. Late, sure, but never cancelled.

Of my flights this year - all my DJ ones have departed withion 10 minutes of when they were supposed to. (8 flights)

My QF flights (10) - I have had 2 cancelled, 2 run over 30 mins late and 6 depart within 10 mins of when they were due.

On one of the QF flights I was on the 1pm SYD-MEL which was cancelled, then the 3pm I was put on was cancelled so I didnt get out of Sydney until after 6pm! (and no, that second cancellation I didnt count in the above stats).... so much for being a gold and Plat (my partner).... didnt help in that situation.

I think it is horses for courses.... depends on the luck of the day - but QF do seems to be cancelleing more often these days.

 

[Jacques Vert]

And as a OW Emerald I expect Qantas to work hard at sorting things out for me. As a Virgin nobody, I have no expectations that they will do anymore for me than for any other passenger. I expect my expectations would be met by both carriers, so cannot complain.

Excellent Point NM.

Last year I flew to Adelaide with Mrs JV. I flew QF from Sydney with work; Mrs JV flew Jetstar from Brisbane.

The first night we were there I received a phone call at 0400 from the hospital to say that my mother had a heart attack and was in a serious condition.

While I had a flexible return ticket, Mrs JV had a cheapie.

We looked at changing Mrs JV's return ticket with Jetstar - $208 (change fee + fare difference). DJ was $282 (cheapest fare on the day).

QF: Mrs JV is NB and I am Gold. We arrived at the airport (couldn't get thru on the phone as there was an engineering strike that day).

The staff were sensatiuonal; they sold us a flight on the last flight of the day (a red-e-deal) at $135. They then changed it to the only available seat on the next flight departing at no cost (this seat was listed on the web at $690!). Within one hour of arriving at the airport we were both on our way (they even held my flight for me so I could help sort my wife's flights).

As a QFF Gold, I have found QF have often gone out of their way to help me. As a nothing with DJ & JQ, I expect nothing but get better than I expect.

Yes I have been delayed with QF, DJ, JQ & others. My philosophy is that any plane that arrives is a good plane; I don't care whether it is late, I don't care if it touches down at the wrong airport; as long as it lands somewhere it's been a good flight!!!!

Regards,

James

PS: Well done to CrazyDave98 for taking the time to listen to the customers!

PPS: Mum is still with us!

 

[Starship]

.

Yes I have been delayed with QF, DJ, JQ & others. My philosophy is that any plane that arrives is a good plane; I don't care whether it is late, I don't care if it touches down at the wrong airport; as long as it lands somewhere it's been a good flight!!!!

Touche! We all get frustrated when we are late, delayed, cancelled - but seriously better off than not landing at all.

 

[DJ737]

.........Now getting back to the troubles at the cattery.

Tiger will drop MEL-CBR & MEL-ROK from DEC 15

Other reductions :
MEL-PER x2 daily (no change)
MEL-ADL x2 daily (-2 daily)
MEL-LST x1 daily (-1 daily)
MEL-HBA x1 daily (-2 daily)
MEL-CBR x0 daily (-2 daily)
MEL-OOL x3 daily (no change)
MEL-MCY x1 daily (no change)
MEL-MKY x3 weekly (no change)
MEL-ASP x3 weekly (no change)
MEL-ROK x0 daily (-3 weekly)

Not a good sign going into the Xmas holiday period

DJ737

 

[ANstar]

ANy new routes or are they dropping an aircraft?

 

[drron]

Our local paper announced a while ago the were starting/increasing flights to the Sunshine Coast in December.
Found it-daily from december 15.
http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/aug/26/tiger-introduces-daily-melbourne-flights/

 

[Standby]

.........Now getting back to the troubles at the cattery.

Tiger will drop MEL-CBR & MEL-ROK from DEC 15

Other reductions :
MEL-PER x2 daily (no change)
MEL-ADL x2 daily (-2 daily)
MEL-LST x1 daily (-1 daily)
MEL-HBA x1 daily (-2 daily)
MEL-CBR x0 daily (-2 daily)
MEL-OOL x3 daily (no change)
MEL-MCY x1 daily (no change)
MEL-MKY x3 weekly (no change)
MEL-ASP x3 weekly (no change)
MEL-ROK x0 daily (-3 weekly)

Not a good sign going into the Xmas holiday period

DJ737

CBR/ADL at this stage looks to be seasonal ichanges in that they return 31Jan.
This sort of ultra LCC approach wont win any friends.....Youd suspect there may ne some dissappointed people expecting to travel at xmas.
Funny they would reduce HBA and LST though as thats the peak travel period for the state...if U cant fill seats to tasi over xmas you have no hope

 

[crazydave98]

Dealing with delays/cancellations is a key service differential in my experiences with Qantas & Virgin Blue.


On a recent day trip with DJ, the outbound morning segment was delayed by an hour. In similar situations on Qantas (if I am not already on the last flight coming back) where I determine that due to my delayed arrival I won’t have enough time on the ground, a simple word to a Qantas rep, and my return flight is changed; no problems, no extra charges. Qantas takes responsibility for its delays.

Same situation on Virgin Blue, and because I am not on a Flexible fare, there is nothing the person at the gate can do.
So my analysis – Qantas empowers its staff to make “fair go” business decisions, Virgin Blue isn’t interested in my business unless I travel on outrageously expensive “flexible tickets”, status on Virgin Blue delivers purely what it says it will, where as at Qantas status delivers a whole lot more than just by the book!

Thanks Comint - that's a valuable insight (the empowerment to make "fair go" decisions) - will see that this is taken up internally.
cheers
CrazyDave98

 

[yo yo ma]

As a QFF Gold, I have found QF have often gone out of their way to help me. As a nothing with DJ & JQ, I expect nothing but get better than I expect.

Yes I have been delayed with QF, DJ, JQ & others. My philosophy is that any plane that arrives is a good plane; I don't care whether it is late, I don't care if it touches down at the wrong airport; as long as it lands somewhere it's been a good flight!!!!

PS: Well done to CrazyDave98 for taking the time to listen to the customers!

Great post Jacques... Kudos.