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The way out of lockdowns etc in Australia

tgh

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I am happy to keep the Qld border closed , I have high risk family members and suffer no personal inconvenience if it stays closed indefinitely.
I suspect that the very sharp, intelligent, (your adjective) Qld premier has a well tuned political ear to the mood of the populace.
We could even make Qld greater by opportunistically seceding from our disease ridden southern neighbours… 😁 😁
 

jase05

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As the rules change so often...can people in NSW visit anywhere else in Aust ?
No border controls between NSW and the ACT or VIC is there?
Things change quickly but when I last spoke to my parents in NSW they mentioned that residents in NSW were allowed to travel but not stay overnight so I guess that rules out going anywhere?
 

lovetravellingoz

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I think the Cedar debacle but a few scares into the other states but hopefully that’s under control now.
Yes the Cedar cluster seems to just to be about over. However in terms of future transmission clusters like Ceder Meats while obviously not desirable are not really the problem as once known, all known close contacts go into isolation.

The bigger problem are the unknown local transmissions as they are the ones that could cause unknown spread. These are now rare.




The road toll for April is about 25 less (25% down) when you compare it with the average for the previous 5 years.

When travel in all forms is resumed it is quite like that the higher death toll rate will resume and no one will bat an eyelid at the extra lives lost. No headlines will appear and few will be monitoring the stats of lives lost.


Now the road toll is unfortunate but given the likely Covid 19 that is still circulating in Australia the quantity of lives saved from keeping border restrictions will be tiny, and perhaps none at all.

Personally my belief is that the current gains of some of our Covid 19 restrictions are not worth their price (state Border restrictions). Others are (International Border restrictions.



Also why not if one wants to keep border restrictions adopt a measure such as say that no one over 50 can travel interstate? Or add on that no one who has travelled interstate in the previous 14 days can visit an aged care facility?
  • ie Resume most business activity, but still largely protect the more vulnerable.
  • the current blanket ban is doing a lot of harm, but has little benefit now.
 

lovetravellingoz

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No border controls between NSW and the ACT or VIC is there?
Things change quickly but when I last spoke to my parents in NSW they mentioned that residents in NSW were allowed to travel but not stay overnight so I guess that rules out going anywhere?
Yes come 1st June one can stay overnight in NSW, but not yet announced in Vic. So from 1st June I can holiday or have business in NSW.
 

jakeseven7

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It MAY be circulating in those states, but I can't see that there is evidence for it.
And that is the catch 22 isn’t it.

There isn’t evidence because we aren’t testing enough to pick up the asymptomatic spreaders. But we will never be able to test that widely and quickly enough.

And we know the virus circulated without causing symptoms in many. So simple logic says it is spreading in all states, somewhere, right now.

So we need to become less fixated on the case numbers which some on here (and clearly some premiers) are still absolutely obsessed about and move onto the next part of this awful game and that is: getting back to the new normal ASAP whilst protecting those most vulnerable.
 

RooFlyer

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And that is the catch 22 isn’t it.

There isn’t evidence because we aren’t testing enough to pick up the asymptomatic spreaders. But we will never be able to test that widely and quickly enough.

And we know the virus circulated without causing symptoms in many. So simple logic says it is spreading in all states, somewhere, right now.

So we need to become less fixated on the case numbers which some on here (and clearly some premiers) are still absolutely obsessed about and move onto the next part of this awful game and that is: getting back to the new normal ASAP whilst protecting those most vulnerable.
I absolutely agree with the last bit, but I think if we go 2-3 weeks with out any symptomatic presentations within a borders-closed state, its a good bet that it isn't 'out there'. Especially when the last case in most states where its been 'almost gone' have been already in quarantine. So that makes it 3-4 weeks without a community transmission detected.

To me, that adds greatly to the basis of relaxing things quicker within a state, and then opening borders between comparable states.
 

kyle

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Yes the Cedar cluster seems to just to be about over. However in terms of future transmission clusters like Ceder Meats while obviously not desirable are not really the problem as once known, all known close contacts go into isolation.
Whenever I read about the Cedar cluster and how the new cases are contacts, I keep thinking that those originally infected must either have large families or have contacts with people all the time.

I've been working from home five days a week. Go to the supermarkets one day a week getting takeaways. Other than that, I'm hardly in contact with others outside my house for any extended period of time.
 

Pushka

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Whenever I read about the Cedar cluster and how the new cases are contacts, I keep thinking that those originally infected must either have large families or have contacts with people all the time.

I've been working from home five days a week. Go to the supermarkets one day a week getting takeaways. Other than that, I'm hardly in contact with others outside my house for any extended period of time.
If it's anything like the Qantas baggage handlers in Adelaide, they socialised out of work hours, and had many relatives employed in the industry including Qantas people which is how it spread there. And I know this from a neighbour who works for Qantas Adelaide and whose brother and his best friend were both infected and were very unwell but recovered.
 

VPS

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I went to a couple of open inspections of houses yesterday. You are only allowed to have 10 people inside at any one time and this was a 3 bed 2 bath house. BUT there were 20 people lined up on the verandah waiting to get in and they were all huddled up because of a bit of rain. I stood on the street with my umbrella and told the RE agent to call me when it was my turn and I indicated where I fitted in the line. She said oh maybe we should have had dots where people could stand - DUH yeah maybe
 

lovetravellingoz

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Whenever I read about the Cedar cluster and how the new cases are contacts, I keep thinking that those originally infected must either have large families or have contacts with people all the time.
Over 300 in the workforce. Many will have had partners and no doubt kids. Partners often work elsewhere.

So just with mixing at the workplace and within the home unit you have a large pool of close contacts even if they were not further socialising. And some visitors were allowed.



PS: Today Sunday again no new cases from clusters etc in Victoria. So the Cedar Meats and McDonalds clusters have now both probably just about gone.
 

jakeseven7

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QLD brains trust OMG.... Sorry Jeanette I think its time you reviewed your KPI's.....

'The state’s Chief Medical Officer, Dr Jeannette Young has argued that Queensland borders should remain closed as just one coronavirus case could take the state back to square one'

 

jase05

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QLD brains trust OMG.... Sorry Jeanette I think its time you reviewed your KPI's.....

'The state’s Chief Medical Officer, Dr Jeannette Young has argued that Queensland borders should remain closed as just one coronavirus case could take the state back to square one'

As posted in the other thread, Jacinda doesn’t sound keen on the idea
 

jase05

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From Monday we can have a beer without a meal in SA but must be seated.
From Monday:


From Monday:
- 80 people allowed in venues, provided no more than 20 are in each area.

- Funeral capacity increased to 50.

- Outdoor contact sport training to resume, and games to resume from 25 June. Non-contact games permitted from Mon.

Pub changes:
- From Monday, drinks can be bought without a meal, but patrons must be seated.
 

OZDUCK

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In W.A. intrastate travel will be allowed from Friday except for the Kimberley which is subject to a Commonwealth Biosecurity Zone. An application to lift the zone has been made and it is expected it will go around June 5. Access to some remote areas and Aboriginal communities will still be restricted.

Plus - "The Premier said he expected to make further announcements around the easing of restrictions – including increasing the limits on patrons at pubs, cafes and restaurants and the re-opening of beauty salons – later this week." - PerthNow

A family of 4 who flew in from Doha, on their way home to Victoria, on May 17 and are in quarantine in a Perth Hotel have now tested positive for Covid-19. It is not clear to me if they just transited Doha or were living there. These 4 plus the 2 cases recorded in Victoria today, who were also in quarantine, makes it certain that the 14 days quarantine on arrival in Australia is certainly unlikely to be lifted in the near term.
 
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VPS

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In W.A. intrastate travel will be allowed from Friday except for the Kimberley which is subject to a Commonwealth Biosecurity Zone. An application to lift the zone has been made and it is expected it will go around June 5. Access to some remote areas and Aboriginal communities will still be restricted.

Plus - "The Premier said he expected to make further announcements around the easing of restrictions – including increasing the limits on patrons at pubs, cafes and restaurants and the re-opening of beauty salons – later this week." - PerthNow

A family of 4 who flew in from Doha, on their way home to Victoria, on May 17 and are in quarantine in a Perth Hotel have now tested positive for Covid-19. It is not clear to me if they just transited Doha or were living there. These 4 plus the 2 cases recorded in Victoria today, who were also in quarantine, makes it certain that the 14 days quarantine on arrival in Australia is certainly unlikely to be lifted in the near term.
And I don't think the quarantine on arrival should be lifted
 

Flashback

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So with a return to the office environment looking more and more likely, for anyone who is in control of this I'm interested in how you're planning to manage it?

For example, will it be done manually and people will opt in / choose when they want to come in, a central register will be updated and then checked against desk allocation to make sure social distancing etc. can be in place.

Has anyone found any technology, an app or service of some sort that may help with this? I'm thinking of something like Condeco, where you could set some business rules but that's a little too enterprise I think. What about for smaller companies?
 

MEL_Traveller

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So with a return to the office environment looking more and more likely, for anyone who is in control of this I'm interested in how you're planning to manage it?

For example, will it be done manually and people will opt in / choose when they want to come in, a central register will be updated and then checked against desk allocation to make sure social distancing etc. can be in place.
i think the key here is to treat every employee individually as they will all have different circumstances and different concerns. Some will be in contact with elderly parents. Others won't want to take crowded public transport. Others will have underlying health conditions, or be in the age bracket that puts them at risk. Others will be carers for people in those categories. Asking individual employees what they feel comfortable is probably the way to go, if you have the resources to maintain that in your office.

Listening to feedback from your staff may give you a better picture of what you need to do. Maybe stagger start and end times. Work shortened hours to avoid public transport and crowded lifts. Maybe have 'team A' in the office for a week and then 'team B', that way, if there is an outbreak, only part of your workforce will be affected.

Social distancing will be important, And protocols for shared common areas, etc.

Advice is available from relevant departments in each state. in Victoria, the suggestion is that if people can work from home, they should continue to do so. I think this may be in effect for some time.
 

Flashback

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i think the key here is to treat every employee individually as they will all have different circumstances and different concerns. Some will be in contact with elderly parents. Others won't want to take crowded public transport. Others will have underlying health conditions, or be in the age bracket that puts them at risk. Others will be carers for people in those categories. Asking individual employees what they feel comfortable is probably the way to go, if you have the resources to maintain that in your office.

Listening to feedback from your staff may give you a better picture of what you need to do. Maybe stagger start and end times. Work shortened hours to avoid public transport and crowded lifts. Maybe have 'team A' in the office for a week and then 'team B', that way, if there is an outbreak, only part of your workforce will be affected.

Social distancing will be important, And protocols for shared common areas, etc.

Advice is available from relevant departments in each state. in Victoria, the suggestion is that if people can work from home, they should continue to do so. I think this may be in effect for some time.
So what I'm thinking is...... currently there are desk/office booking apps like Condeco for example, but can they be given the right 'smarts' to apply some SD rules based on who is booking desks etc. It would be useful if when booking, you can see who else will be in the office as that may help decide whether it's worth going in or not.

If this doesn't exist, then maybe it's time to develop something that has that functionality.

The other alternative is some sort of manual table/spreadsheet updated by people, but it relies on manual thought processes.
 

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