Rumour has it & Qantas [778 non-stop London from Sydney]

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re: Rumour has it & Qantas [778 non-stop London from Sydney]

Second, SYD-LON direct is about 20+ hours non-stop. No jokes. I just did SQ22 which is 19 hours non-stop. Thankfully it was in J (an aircraft specifically outfitted with all J). That's comfortable enough to do but many people will still strain at a flight like that even in premium (and be damned if they run out of drinking water on the flight).

We are a soft lot these days, considering QF still hold the record by a long way for the longest duration commercial flight, the double sunrise:

The Double Sunrise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
re: Rumour has it & Qantas [778 non-stop London from Sydney]

a friend who is a tactical engineer at qf is working on the project !
nonstop and 777 series 8 . 20.5 hrs
i think the convenience of direct flts to lon will be a winner . we might revive the old girl ( qf ) yet !

in qf circles they are highly excited about it ! the 380 hasnt been a runaway success due to high costs and slimer yields than a runaway expected.

re syd london another mate flys for emirates and twice a month does dubai / usa this is 19 hrs in 777 lr
 
re: Rumour has it & Qantas [778 non-stop London from Sydney]

a friend who is a tactical engineer at qf is working on the project !
nonstop and 777 series 8 . 20.5 hrs
i think the convenience of direct flts to lon will be a winner . we might revive the old girl ( qf ) yet !

in qf circles they are highly excited about it ! the 380 hasnt been a runaway success due to high costs and slimer yields than a runaway expected.

re syd london another mate flys for emirates and twice a month does dubai / usa this is 19 hrs in 777 lr

Must be good to be your friend given the job security situation, as has already been pointed out it wont be possible before 2019-2020 when the 777-8x is available to the launch customers, history would suggest thats optimistic.
 
re: Rumour has it & Qantas [778 non-stop London from Sydney]

a friend who is a tactical engineer at qf is working on the project !
nonstop and 777 series 8 . 20.5 hrs
i think the convenience of direct flts to lon will be a winner . we might revive the old girl ( qf ) yet !

I have to remark that if - and I say if - this rumour is true, then it is very intriguing in a positive way. Not only (or mainly) because of possible SYD/LON non-stop* flights, but because of the possibilities.

* I notice you said "direct" and "non-stop". The two are not interchangeable. "Non-stop" means just that - SYD to LON in the metal tube without stopping. We already have "direct" flights from SYD to LON (the flight number doesn't change and you can book it in a single flight).

I'm sure some people will see it as a "convenience"... and to be honest I'm unsure of how many people (unless they've flown in Y and sick of longhaul) have actually understood or experienced the true nature of ultra long haul flying. IMO flying 13 - 15 hours is one thing - especially in Y - but once you go beyond 15 hours that's another thing coming, and the effects or ramifications are not a simple linear extrapolation - you do start to feel those extra hours.

I suppose if you did that kind of flying often enough, you'd be used to it (along with having a skin profile more drier than a reptile). Just the same how we went from flights with many hops (admittedly with overnight accommodation) to now what we know as long haul flying of minimum 9 hours; yes, you could argue comfort has improved in that respect to be able to put up with flying that long, but still.

I'd have to think hard whether I want to be cooped up in a metal tube for over 20 hours. Sure you miss the stopover (and the associated drudging off the aircraft, paltry 90 minute transit then drudge back on with the rest of the transit rigmarole), though most people have "gotten used to it" that they justify breaking the journey. You would need to plan the trip carefully for a 20 hour stint, which not only includes rest but also includes factoring in hydration (both internal and of the skin). And I'm still not sure if after a 20 hour journey I could hit the ground running at the other end, even in F.

Only other feasible situation I can see is that if your friend is a tactical engineer, who is to say this isn't just a small feasibility study? It may not be a pipeline plan - just tossing up ideas and doing the analysis around it.

in qf circles they are highly excited about it ! the 380 hasnt been a runaway success due to high costs and slimer yields than a runaway expected.

I can imagine the A380 may not have been a runaway success, but who is to say if we stuck with the 747s for longer would QF be in a better or worse position. Of course, I now expect all the 777 proponents to speak up (i.e. the ones who are bitter at QF for not purchasing said aircraft).

re syd london another mate flys for emirates and twice a month does dubai / usa this is 19 hrs in 777 lr

You must be referring to the numerous flights EK operate to the USA, including the longest one of those being EK215 DXB / LAX. Your mate must be exaggerating the figures a little bit because that is not 19 hours, not even by block time let alone wheels up to touch down. The length of the flight is more closer to 16 to 17 hours (unless they are delayed on the tarmac at either end).

The current longest non-stop flight is SQ22 SIN / EWR which is close to 19 hours, operated with a specially fitted Airbus A340-500 (100 Business Class seats). Once this service ends in November, the next longest non-stop flight (by duration) will be DL201 JNB / ATL which is close to 17 hours.
 
re: Rumour has it & Qantas [778 non-stop London from Sydney]

a friend who is a tactical engineer at qf is working on the project !
nonstop and 777 series 8 . 20.5 hrs
i think the convenience of direct flts to lon will be a winner . we might revive the old girl ( qf ) yet !...
I think there's a bit of dreaming going on, of course it's an interesting excercise for an engineer.

Have a look at this jb747 post indicatian the realities of such:
From a pilot's perspective, what do you see as the future of ultra long-haul travel?

Prompted by this question in another thread, I thought it would be interesting to understand it from a pilot's view, including the logistics, perception of economics, advances in technology, a time-frames (say next 5 years vs 10-15 years time).

The availability of an aircraft that can make the mission (say SYD-LHR non-stop) does not necessarily make it a practically viable or commercially attractive proposition. What advances do you think are necessary before we see such ULR operations becoming commonplace?
I don't see it as ever being a viable operation. Someone might do it, more as a marketing, or one upmanship exercise, but it makes little sense. As fuel prices rise as a component of the overall cost, I can actually see good reasons to reduce sector lengths. Another issue that is now coming up is that some countries (UK) are going to tax airlines based upon the duration of their flights ex UK. That has the effect of penalising say, QF and Singapore, whilst giving a middle eastern airline a relative cost benefit of something like $20k per flight.

A couple of considerations. Whilst the crew do have access to good crew rest facilities, actually getting worthwhile sleep in them is a rarity. It's bad enough now handling arrivals when you feel like death warmed over. Having crews that are even worse off is not a safety feature.

Total fuel burn on an ultra long sector is higher than it would be for the same sector divided into two, given the same payload.

Payload for ultra long sectors is dismal. Basically most of the people, and all of the freight, are offloaded and replaced by fuel.

The gain, for all of this pain, is quite minimal. For a 9000 nm sector, total flight time is about half an hour less without stopping. Total trip time is about 2 hours less. Passenger loading would be so low (and the costs so high) that passengers (the few that you can actually carry) would need to be paying a very hefty premium. Most likely you're looking at purely business class, but you may not actually be able to afford the weight of the sort of seating that these passengers are used to. Upshot is that they'll get to pay more, but likely get less.

Just playing with some 380 numbers. For a 9000 nm sector (but using standard atmosphere temperature, and nil wind, plus assuming you get every altitude that you want, when you want it). Fuel burn would be 236 tonnes (which, plus reserve, is full tanks); flight time 19:15. Available payload? No freight, and about 200 passengers. With the same (obviously non viable payload), and two sectors, fuel burn is about 216 tonnes.

But, again divided into two sectors, and this time with a decent reserve of 18 tonnes, and maximum possible payload (i.e. max zero fuel weight), total burn is 240 tonnes, flight time 19:45, and you've carried maximum possible people and freight. Economics are dramatically different.


Somebody is bound to try Oz - Europe sooner or later, but honestly, do you really want to be trapped in an aluminium (or whatever they are made of) tube for 20 hours?

Another point...at intermediate landings, problem passengers are often removed. There are some people I'd rather not be stuck with....
Also, see this thread: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....on/long-long-long-range-31302.html#post458163
 
i think the reality is that this is going to happen sooner or later. it's a natural progression and eventually we'll get new aircraft technology (scram jets whatever) that will take us to Europe in a matter of a few hours rather than close to a day. (Singapore airlines famously had an advertisement saying 'Singapore to London in 2 hours? we hope you like your roast beef rare')

20 hours on a jet? obviously people do it now and obviously Singapore airlines is making some money out of it or they wouldn't fly it. I've done the 16 hours to DFW... eat, 10 hours sleep and just enough time to watch a movie. potentially if your company was paying for a product like this you might even work!

potential to have an all business class or mixed first/business class flight? I can't see why not. no one ever said this was going to cater for the tourist.

time savings? might shave three to four hours off the total journey time. how would that be a benefit? I could leave sydney at 9pm (finish work and leisurely pack/trip to the airport) and arrive London 8pm the following day... time to get home, unpack, unwind, sleep and head off to a full day of work the next day. of course part of the route strategy is going to be figuring out whether anyone is going to appreciate or pay for that... but there is precedence, at least on shorter flights, for a hefty premium to save time.

i don't see why we need to be demanding anyone disclose their sources. that's just asking for that person to lose any further confidences.
 
i don't see why we need to be demanding anyone disclose their sources. that's just asking for that person to lose any further confidences.

Because anyone could then throw up anything on here under the guise of a "rumour" and seem to wax authority over it. Confidence has nothing to do with it - this is about integrity.

There's a difference between a rumour and a hypothetical / dream. If this was just a discussion or what-if thought (which was raised on another thread), totally different orientation, even if the same discussion.
 
This is a VERY cool story indeed

Given that the 777-8X isn't due to 2020 or later this will be interesting

I am guessing the rumour came from a friend of a baggage handler who knows a flight attendant who knows someone..........

Given that Europe is now pretty much all up to EK, I don't see QF doing anything else towards Europe

QF will focus on Asia with the 787's and that's about it
 
Because anyone could then throw up anything on here under the guise of a "rumour" and seem to wax authority over it. Confidence has nothing to do with it - this is about integrity.

There's a difference between a rumour and a hypothetical / dream. If this was just a discussion or what-if thought (which was raised on another thread), totally different orientation, even if the same discussion.

the two can be mutually exclusive. a journalist (or indeed any person) may wish to protect the identity of their source and keep a confidence.

it seems some on this board would relish the source being sacked from their job for disclosing information? that is one potential outcome.

you can either choose to accept the rumour, and the claimed source, or you can ignore it.

saying there is a source, even if you can't disclose it, gives more weight than a pure hypothetical. what is the point of a hundred posts saying 'it'll never happen' if there is a source actually working in it? that's just a waste of time when the discussion should not be focussing on 'if' but 'how'.
 
20 hours on a jet? obviously people do it now and obviously Singapore airlines is making some money out of it or they wouldn't fly it. I've done the 16 hours to DFW... eat, 10 hours sleep and just enough time to watch a movie. potentially if your company was paying for a product like this you might even work!
SQ obviously don't think of these ULL routes that highly considering they have been cancelled...
 
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Rumours are fine, but again, given that the 777-8X is not likely to even have it's first flight til around 2018/2019....

You know...............
 
Given that SQ has cancelled this route I am not sure it's that profitable.... :(

I think that's more to do with the aging A340-500 aircraft. SQ had to be making some decent cash on it, but I suppose if it were a killer route they would have (or should have) probably thought of upgauging it to another aircraft with similar configuration (or even with regular configuration).

And to put another spin on it, when I flew SQ22 last week or so, there was only 60 of the 100 seats occupied on board.
 
I think that's more to do with the aging A340-500 aircraft. SQ had to be making some decent cash on it, but I suppose if it were a killer route they would have (or should have) probably thought of upgauging it to another aircraft with similar configuration (or even with regular configuration).

Well yes the older A340-500 is not that fuel efficient when compared to the 777-200LR, but for SQ to then invest in a fleet of 777-200LRs is a very big risk...
 
This is a VERY cool story indeed.......
Given that Europe is now pretty much all up to EK, I don't see QF doing anything else towards Europe

QF will focus on Asia with the 787's and that's about it

We shall see. Time will tell.

Since, I work with many of them (Pilots)
I do get the occasional gossip. This one was different very serious. A stand out.
I think it's cool
And would not mind travelling 20 hr to a destination. Yes I would be happy to be there so quickly not have to stop over in the Middle East is a bonus.
 
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We shall see. Time will tell.

Since, I work with many of them (Pilots)
I do get the occasional gossip. This one was different very serious. A stand out.
I think it's cool
And would not mind travelling 20 hr to a destination. Yes I would be happy to be there so quickly not have to stop over in the Middle East is a bonus.

Can you please firstly tell me more about the 777-8X being flown by commercial airlines in March 2015

Thanks

Yeah it's a very cool story indeed
 
I hate to be skeptical about such a rumor, but the biggest issue with such long-longhaul is the weight of the additional fuel needed to go such a distance (which includes the additional fuel needed to carry the additional fuel to carry the additional fuel to carry the additional fuel ... etc.). This has basically precluded effective(/profitable) payloads on ultra long haul segments.
It's also the weight of carrying a third meal and multiple refreshments as well I imagine.
 
why let the miniimum 6 year timeframe for delivery of the aicraft get in the way of a good story
 
How would scheduling of this service work? This service would command a hefty premium over flights via DXB (due it being a low density, load restricted aircraft). As such it would need the early AM arrival into London preferred by business travellers, taking over the current QF1 arrival slot.

QF1 could change to a ~2100 departure to meet the current 1830 slot. So that's fine. Probably a positive - full day of work in SYD, then a leisurely trip to the airport.

But QF2 would need to depart LHR at something like 0130 to meet the current SYD arrival slot. I can't see that being a popular move (LHR curfew notwithstanding). Alternatively QF2 could depart mid-afternoon from LHR to arrive late evening in SYD but once again that seems a struggle because you'd cut short a working day in London and prevent onward connections from SYD.
 
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