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QF domestic 28-day advance purchase Business Class - not worth the pain

Max Samuels

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Jun 30, 2010
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137
Given my comment was that flying Jetstar doesn't hurt qantas business that other experience agrees with my comment. Flying with jetstar gives Qantas profit.
Yep, but less profit. I'm sure they'd prefer you paying for premium cabins on QF rather than cheap old Jetstar. You can get $50 fares on Jetstar - I'm no scientician, but I doubt there is much margin in those fares!
 

Quickstatus

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Oct 13, 2013
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Jetstar has consistently been profitable even when QFi was not - therefore every dollar JQ earns may be more profitable than every dollar QFi makes. The economics are a bit more nuanced.
 

Max Samuels

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Jun 30, 2010
Messages
137
Not sure what logic there is keeping someone in your lounge longer and missing the slightly more chance of selling a seat flying a few hours later.....
Totally agree. Not to mention that every passenger yet to fly is still a "risk" if delays/cancellations force the airline to pay for accommodation etc. From an operations point of view, you'd think the sooner they could complete their contractual obligation of getting said passenger from A to B, the better... although they love to remind us that a specific date and time "don't form part of the contract".

American Airlines, for example, seem to encourage people to take an earlier flight if possible. They even allow you to wait at the gate on a waitlist.

I used to regularly take the last flight from SYD->MEL (QF497?). I think it leaves earlier now but it used to be a 2200 (or later) departure. Suited me perfect because it allowed a decent amount of time to meet for dinner etc in the city before heading to the airport. Anyway, a couple of times we departed the gate too late and had to turn around and come back because of the curfew nonsense... so annoying. Everyone Melbourne based was put up in a hotel... these were 767s or 330s.... therefore potentially 100s of rooms to pay for. I noticed that if I was booked on that flight, and if I turned up earlier, even on a red-e deal, 90% of the time they would offer me an earlier flight....
 

nutwood

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Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
366
I must say, I struggle to see what the OP's gripe is. Of course, I wasn't there and rude treatment may be the simple answer, however flow forward is a clearly stated P1 benefit. P1 can flow forward to an earlier flight regardless of fare differences. The OP was not P1 so the benefit wasn't available. Considering the post objectively, it seems, regardless of the rude manner, the staff member did their best to help. Suggesting cashing the flight in, re-booking flex and upgrading was quite a creative solution and, depending on the exchange rate used for the points, might have worked out OK.
 

Mrmaxwell

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May 18, 2007
Messages
1,100
I must say, I struggle to see what the OP's gripe is.
There are many friendly ways to say no to a customer...even more so if they have a business class ticket and WP status.

Many here just don't seem to get it. If I had experienced what the OP did that customer service agent would've not had a good time.

Edit: Customer service comes from the top down - Alan Joyce is way past his use by date and has proven time and again customer service and loyalty is last on his list and it's shows in all areas of the red rat
 
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nutwood

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Mar 4, 2015
Messages
366
There are many friendly ways to say no to a customer...even more so if they have a business class ticket and WP status.

Many here just don't seem to get it. If I had experienced what the OP did that customer service agent would've not had a good time.

Edit: Customer service comes from the top down - Alan Joyce is way past his use by date and has proven time and again customer service and loyalty is last on his list and it's shows in all areas of the red rat
The problem is that customer service is a subjective thing. You did not experience what the OP did so commenting as to your reaction is based on how you would react to poor treatment, not what actually occurred. Not dismissing the OP's report but I've certainly encountered situations where a service agent's approach has put my hackles up but on sober reflection I've realised they were simply trying to help.
In this instance, the OP bought a cheap fare. They then tried to flow forward to an earlier flight, where the equivalent seat was considerably more expensive. Consider purchasing a Sunday night special hotel package and then deciding you'd rather stay Saturday night...? In this instance, the service agent has apparently tried to help to the best of their ability. The OP was requesting something to which they had no entitlement. No problem with that, and great when it works, but indulging in a whinge fest when it doesn't seems inappropriate.
 

serfty

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The OP was requesting something to which they had no entitlement. No problem with that, and great when it works, but indulging in a whinge fest when it doesn't seems inappropriate.
It's more than that. they booked the fare avalable - Qantas.com gives no obvious fare bucket information. Moreover the OP felt the Qantas staff member belittled them for buying a discounted fare.
 

Mrmaxwell

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May 18, 2007
Messages
1,100
The problem is that customer service is a subjective thing
Customer service is not subjective.

You either help your customer by giving them multiple options and where no options are available empathising with them and at least making them feel like you have done your best.

I don't need to be there with the OP as many of us have experienced this kind of treatment from QF staff who could not care less about your situation even though their actual job title is to serve you - the customer.

I received the option to fly ahead on cheap red e deal economy seats while sitting on Bronze - QF will help out when it suits them, they should go above and beyond when you're flying J and have WP status.
 

nutwood

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Mar 4, 2015
Messages
366
It's more than that. they booked the fare avalable - Qantas.com gives no obvious fare bucket information. Moreover the OP felt the Qantas staff member belittled them for buying a discounted fare.
I'm missing the point here? They booked the fare available but I would presume that they would have known it was a good price? It was a flexible fare but the clause about paying the difference in fare price is very significant if you purchase a discount fare and wish to change it.
I can't comment as to whether they were belittled. This is obviously a subjective thing but the fact that they felt belittled suggests that the staff member possibly could have handled it better, however I have also had plenty of experience in service queues, listening to people getting upset with with really helpful staff members, simply because they are not getting what they wanted. In this instance, it appears that the staff member pro-actively offered suggestions. They may have done so in a rude manner but at least they tried!
 

nutwood

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Mar 4, 2015
Messages
366
Customer service is not subjective.

You either help your customer by giving them multiple options and where no options are available empathising with them and at least making them feel like you have done your best.

I don't need to be there with the OP as many of us have experienced this kind of treatment from QF staff who could not care less about your situation even though their actual job title is to serve you - the customer.

I received the option to fly ahead on cheap red e deal economy seats while sitting on Bronze - QF will help out when it suits them, they should go above and beyond when you're flying J and have WP status.
Of course it's subjective. What makes one person feel an honoured customer can really aggravate another. Personally, I hate the "Have a nice day" culture, a genuine smile, or even a genuine frown, goes a lot further with me. I've certainly encountered grumpy QF staff, but I don't think I've ever encountered one who could not care less about my situation, they've always done at least the minimum. To counter this, I've had others who have gone way beyond what was required. Just like you, I've been Bronze and allowed to flow ahead on a cheap ticket but one shouldn't expect this and then cry foul when it doesn't happen. These days I'm P1 and flow forward is one of my benefits. Where's the value in my status if flow forward becomes an automatic benefit to WP?
 

wandering_fred

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...
Where's the value in my status if flow forward becomes an automatic benefit to WP?
You get to LTG much faster and can then fly any OneWorld airline without signifgant penalty.
QF needs to put the fare class and full rules on the web site and available to the purchaser BEFORE payment is confirmed.

Just wandering
Fred
 

nutwood

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Mar 4, 2015
Messages
366
You get to LTG much faster and can then fly any OneWorld airline without signifgant penalty.
QF needs to put the fare class and full rules on the web site and available to the purchaser BEFORE payment is confirmed.

Just wandering
Fred
LTG is achieved at the same rate whether one is Bronze or P1? If I fly ten domestic economy legs next month, I'm 100 SC closer to LTG. Likewise, someone undertaking their very first flights with Qantas; their ten domestic economy flights will also move them 100 SC closer to LTG.
With regard to the fare class and rules; I'm still struggling to see the problem. The OP purchased a cheap flight. It was still fully flexible. When they wanted to change it, the option to upgrade it was fully available. MEL to BNE, J is typically $1139, the OP paid $650. Do you really think they'd have paid $1139, just on the possibility they might get to the airport five hours early and wished to flow forward? When they did get to the airport early, they baulked at the price.
I really can't see what Qantas has done wrong here. If you alter a flexible flight, you have to pay the fare difference. It's on the web site and is in all the fare conditions. If you purchase an $1100 fare for $650, that fare difference is going to hurt, but it's hardly the fault of the airline. Perhaps just kick back in the lounge and make them wish they'd got rid of you earlier!
 

Berlin

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Mar 31, 2011
Messages
1,458
I really can't see what Qantas has done wrong here. If you alter a flexible flight, you have to pay the fare difference. It's on the web site and is in all the fare conditions. If you purchase an $1100 fare for $650, that fare difference is going to hurt, but it's hardly the fault of the airline. Perhaps just kick back in the lounge and make them wish they'd got rid of you earlier
I’m really in two minds about this. The real problem where I agree with the OP is that on the Qantas website, which the airline actively encourages to use, it does not list the different levels of Business class fares. Yes, you can click yourself into the fare conditions but demanding people to do so is as off reality as expecting anyone who’s not a legal professional paid to do so to really read the entire legal blurb when downloading the latest version of iTunes. Just not going to happen and I don’t think something one can realistically expect. So Qantas (and that not only relates to this specific issue but many others as well)- if you want us to book direct, fix your stupid website and better even, your sloppily programmed app as well.

On the other hand, I am with you: Just enjoy the lounge for a few hours! There’s worse places to spend some time in, you were the one who didn’t plan your day well ahead in advance and yes, you were on a half price J ticket so this is to be expected. No reason to whinge around besides a.) the rudeness of staff which apparently was part of it and b.) the fact that Qantas’ website didn’t offer you a twice as expensive fare that would have clearly stated what additional benefits it would give. I bet the OP wouldn’t have bought it anyway as I wouldn’t buy J full price myself. But I also wouldn’t even ask, let alone demand, for a change of flights if i’m at the airport early.
 

Mrmaxwell

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Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
1,100
a genuine frown, goes a lot further with me
You like genuine frowns? QF is the place to get them!


The real problem where I agree with the OP is that on the Qantas website, which the airline actively encourages to use, it does not list the different levels of Business class fares
Even after you select Business Class and click into the fare conditions the most obvious point is 'fully refundable'...one would think that also means fully flexible. Until QF display all fare classes prior to payment no staff can comment to a passenger about making sure you book the correct fare bucket.

No reason to whinge around
OP wasn't whinging around...simply sharing a less than stellar experience.

There would certainly be no post if the QF lounge idiot approached the request in a million different other ways eg. Direct the OP to take a seat in the lounge while he checks for options, walk over to the OP several minutes later with some options, and if nothing could be done build some more rapport by asking the OP wanted a drink and let him get it right away - not a bad experience while still saying sorry can't help you.
 

nutwood

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Mar 4, 2015
Messages
366
You like genuine frowns? QF is the place to get them!
Funnily enough, I do like genuine frowns. It tells me that I'm dealing with a human being and when I get a genuine smile, it's something to be appreciated, not just a "would you like fries with that" moment.
My best was a FA doing meal service in J. I was in 2A and interrupted her to state my meal order. MEL -SYD, short flight, I was conscious of those still to order and had heard the options several times. I got an "..excuse me Sir, if you would allow me to finish.." Sorry Miss!!! . Classic. I just figure they're having a bad day. I get worse at home. At least she fed me and smiled (showed teeth) when I conformed with the correct meal service timings.
 
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Jacques Vert

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Jun 24, 2008
Messages
2,751
at the risk of sounding a bit ageist, often in my experience look like they'll retire or die soon anyway.
Sorry, but I can't let that comment pass without responding.

By far the best service I've had on any airline, domestic or international was by a QF CSM by the name of Norrie Constantian.

Last time I flew with him he proudly showed me his 40 year service badge.

Age has nothing to do with it; it's whether the person chose the right job in the first place.
 
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downgraded

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
295
the most obvious point is 'fully refundable'...one would think that also means fully flexible
I can't make that leap. Buyer beware and understand what you are buying. The fare class is not really informative unless you have their price points. As has been said several times, you get the cheapest price for flexibility and are asked to pay the difference if and only if you decide to change your booking and that flexi price is no longer available. Seems pretty simple to me.
The staff attitude issues are independent to this.
 

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