QF domestic 28-day advance purchase Business Class - not worth the pain

[PineappleSkip]

Leaving aside the customer service part, fundamental problem appears to be QF website’s failure to offer, and customer inability to select, flexible J in domestic flights when there is discount J on offer. It just offers the cheapest. CX and EK always give a range of choices, and so does QF on international J flights (IIRC domestic J sectors on these book into the same bucket as the international sectors). Nor does it make much effort to market the benefits of a full J fare.

So, dearest red roo (aka rat) I put it to you that your website is a bit silly in not selling full J when discount J is available, and you might get more revenue if people can buy it on the web, and possibly fewer unhappy campers.

Cheers skip

 

[rikkitikkitavi]

On the note of poor customer service, I do understand where you are coming from mate, though I am surprised at the refusal to change flights as we've done that multiple times without any issue even in Y (though that bit about the far class could make it hard I guess). I have had an irate staff member in the MEL QF Club lounge tear stripes off me in front of everybody as loudly as possible for taking a photo of a Qlink B717 parked for the night because it was supposedly a "security issue". Now as a pilot myself I know that this is utter BS, and the only sort of restriction that could be imposed is company policy, which has never given me any trouble either, even when filming onboard aircraft, walking across the apron to/from said aircraft or in many other parts of various airports in Australia and across the rest of the world for my YouTube channel. Aside from that I am also an ASIC holder so I reckon out of all the people sitting in that lounge, when it comes to security I was probably the top of the ladder along with the other staff. Though this was humiliating for me I was too tired to argue and didn't want to stir up any more fuss than I already had, so I gritted my teeth and moved away.

Yup it’s the little Hitlers that cause problems, I still haven’t got a response let alone an apology for being falsely (& loudly) accused of filming staff and threatening to have the AFP meet me at the door.

Since then I’ve flown intentional J with Emirates to get WP in 7 months. I was forced to fly QF J to Christchurch recently, it was a joke, I’m pretty sure it used to be in the same plane doing the SYD-ADL six years ago.... My wife who is tiny was even complaining about the shoulder room saying next time we go to NZ it will only be on EK.

 

[rikkitikkitavi]

Couldn't agree more but it's a good source of laughter too: My partner and me, we travel SO much lately, we have it all as a running gag that we pull up from time to time.

Our favorite is probably also the "Double shot please. Your aircraft does great coffee too". But we're also partial to a random "Ooooh, I dropped my phone!" and whenever anyone jumps into a pool, we straight away shake our heads and say "Aussies!"

I’d say “fad” safety demos are dangerous, I’ve been flying regularly since I was an infant, I’ve been to their training facility to slide down the slide etc, so I don’t watch the videos anymore. However they are so abstract that the correct target audience, fist time/infrequent flyers, are not going to understand what they should be doing in an emergency. In a perfect world people should be forced to attend and pay for emergency training (also some quick lessons on overhead luggage common sense and how not to be a cretin) every few years to be eligible to book flights, I can dream...

 

[desafinado74]

On the note of poor customer service, I do understand where you are coming from mate, though I am surprised at the refusal to change flights as we've done that multiple times without any issue even in Y (though that bit about the far class could make it hard I guess). I have had an irate staff member in the MEL QF Club lounge tear stripes off me in front of everybody as loudly as possible for taking a photo of a Qlink B717 parked for the night because it was supposedly a "security issue". Now as a pilot myself I know that this is utter BS, and the only sort of restriction that could be imposed is company policy, which has never given me any trouble either, even when filming onboard aircraft, walking across the apron to/from said aircraft or in many other parts of various airports in Australia and across the rest of the world for my YouTube channel. Aside from that I am also an ASIC holder so I reckon out of all the people sitting in that lounge, when it comes to security I was probably the top of the ladder along with the other staff. Though this was humiliating for me I was too tired to argue and didn't want to stir up any more fuss than I already had, so I gritted my teeth and moved away. Had the rude old hag caught me on a better day though I could have easily shredded her and her career if I wanted to (perks of having friends in the industry ;D), and to be honest if it ever happens again I think I will. I work my cough off both in my own business and also just in life in general, and I know its tough sometimes but that is certainly NOT the way to treat customers. I know there are people on here and widely around other places too who like to proudly advertise their status with different carriers and how "loyal" they are, but to be honest I don't think even that should have any influence when it comes to how staff interact with passengers. Whether you pay $50 for a ticket or $500 you still deserve to be treated with respect, friendliness and general care. If your staff aren't doing that, regardless of "status", "loyalty" or anything else there's a problem and those staff members shouldn't be there anymore. As to never flying QF again I think that's a bit of an overreaction. If it is indeed just because you've found that VA has a far better product than QF then so be it (though when it comes to economy I will definitely stick with QF thanks), but I see people all the time online especially with LCCs who take 1 flight, something tiny goes wrong (minor delay, not realising what a LCC really means etc.) and then there they are all over instagram, facebook and so on absolutely slamming these airlines with their "never flying them again" rubbish, and I hope that this isn't the case with your experience too. Sure poor customer service isn't nice, and it definitely shouldn't have to be tolerated, but I'd need to have quite a few more reasons than that to not fly on an airline again.
Anyhow I hope you enjoy VA J, and if you want the nicest seats when you go JQ get the exit row over the wings. Best seats

What's your Youtube channel if you don't mind me asking ? I follow a few travel bloggers on Youtube and Instagram, so i am interested in checking your videos out

As for customer service, i agree with you , but i am like the OP. Once bitten twice shy. Whenever i receive very poor service from a hotel, restaurant or airline etc, i am very reluctant to give them another chance.

 

[travelislife]

@Vic
We are talking about different aspects of the same issue

I’m talking of fare difference which is the point of the original post. - the cost to change to a different flight because while there is no change fee in most cases there is still a cost to change.

You are talking about change fee.

If same fare bucket is available then no cost
If higher fare bucket then fare difference needs to be paid.
And if the original purchase is a discounted advance purchase, the same fare bucket will invariably no longer be available. Almost but not never.
The cost to change is change fee ($0.00) plus fare difference

The difference is QF does not use the word FREE. It just says changes can be made.

The issue being, as a consumer you have no opportunity to select the fair bucket for your flight books in to. It isn’t transparent.

 

[Quickstatus]

The issue being, as a consumer you have no opportunity to select the fair bucket for your flight books in to. It isn’t transparent.

I believe you can. If you know the fare bucket you can ring the airline and ask them the price of that fare bucket and book into that.

 

[wandering_fred]

I believe you can. If you know the fare bucket you can ring the airline and ask them the price of that fare bucket and book into that.

Just remember to ask for call in booking fee waiver - since you can't book it online?

With this I know I am just wandering
Fred

 

[The Flying Brick]

Ok so I have an update.... I sent Qantas an email via their complaint portal and was called back within 10 minutes of pressing "send" - which I have to say is quite impressive.

The lady I spoke to was nice enough and was sorry about the way it was all handled. She said their were a lot of notes in my booking from the various people I spoke to.... (un?)surprisingly she said that they have received this kind of feedback before - that the website doesn't allow the user to choose anything other than what is being offered in each class. She said she would pass my comment on to digital.

Ironically, the only way to choose a specific fare class is via a 3rd party - Qantas Sales or a Travel Agent - something that Qantas actively try to discourage through the imposition of fees and the promotion of credit cards that give 3x points etc when booked direct via the website.

On a side note, this whole debacle revealed to me a previously unknown (unknown to me at least) way of accruing Status Credits on Qantas for almost 1/2 the price of actually flying them.... still really dirty with them, and determined not to fly them for a while, the other day I booked Jetstar flight from BNE to MEL (VA was waaaaaaaaay to expensive). I discovered that if you add a Max Bundle, for as little as $182 you get the equivalent of a QF Flexi (which is about $550). That means 1200 QF points and 60 status credits, for less than a QF Red-e deal (about $211). It is also fully refundable (in the form of a credit voucher).

But now you are on DeathStar YMMV

 

[epsc]

I had EXACTLY the same situation 3 years ago. I’d been a Platinum member for 10 years, P1 in two years. Brought in $40k pa to qantas every year (not a lot, I know, but still), gave them all of my business. Treated like the OP was, when they COULD have given me a seat on the 2/3 empty flight, even though I bought the most flexible fare available to me as far as I could ascertain. I walked - never looked back. I’ll fly Q if it’s cheap, otherwise V domestically and a whole bunch of other airlines internationally. Bad business, Red Roo.

 

[conventdweller]

I don’t post often but thought I would share with you a recent Qantas horror story. So awful that it has actually made me seriously consider “divorcing” my relationship with the airline…

As a QF Plat member who arranges all of his own travel directly through Qantas, and checks-in online etc., I rarely have any interaction with airport/lounge staff. So imagine my surprise last Friday when, arriving at Melbourne airport some 5 hours earlier than planned, I was denied an earlier flight to Brisbane. In Business Class, no less, on a paid ticket. I was totally confused as I knew there were seats available on the next flight (and the next one and the next one….). The really rude customer “service” guy in the lounge told me (almost verbatim) “you’ve bought the cheapest business class ticket and the next flight with that fare class (I) isn’t until Saturday morning”. I paid $650 for this ticket – which apparently is a 28-day advance ticket, but which is also fully refundable. He told me that I could go downstairs to ticketing, and pay an extra $500 to upgrade to a full J class in order to get the next flight. Or – and this is the best part – cancel my ticket and get a full refund, buy a new Flex fare in economy (for about $550) and then use 7,500 frequent flyer points to upgrade to business class. I cannot begin to tell you how confused this whole conversation left me. He then went on to say that “if you want flexible fares you have to choose the more expensive one” – and here we get to the real issue. As everyone knows, when you book a paid domestic flight on qantas.com, it shows you 3 fares: Red e-deal, Flex, and Business - and there are fare rules for those 3 categories. It doesn’t allow further drilling down into the various fare buckets contained within those fares – to prove to myself that I wasn’t imagining things, I even reconfirmed this was the case by making a new dummy booking – one-way MEL-BNE in business class on June 13 is currently $650. There is no option to pay more.

I usually buy a Flex, and it is usually around $500/$600. Sometimes it is higher, but I have never been denied an earlier flight with a Flex – and I highly doubt that every time I have changed a Flex ticket the exact fare class has been conveniently available. I asked to speak to a manger and was told “you can but it won’t make a difference”. The attitude just blew me away.

Of course there will be people who say “the rules are the rules”, but we all know QF can be a bit inconsistent with how they apply them. But from a process point of view, Qantas has a real problem here where their own sales portal doesn’t allow someone to buy a full-fare ticket even if they wanted to. One is merely presented with a price, at a point in time, for each of the 3 (Red e-deal, Flex, Business). Once again, a fully refundable ticket (incl no-show!) gives one the impression that it is also flexible! However the thing that gets me the angriest is the way they talked to me. So rude. Didn’t care. Really dismissive. The guys just stared at me with a blank “computer says no” face. And here I was thinking that as a “valued” customer they would take me seriously! Wow did I learn a lesson that day.

Anyway, after I was humiliated enough I headed outside to ticketing, cancelled my ticket, walked across to Virgin, and purchased a one-way business class ticket for $799 - sure it cost me $150 more in the end but there was a point I needed to make.

In my opinion, Qantas loses in this situation in 2 ways. Firstly, they lost $650 in revenue for no real reason. But more importantly, they enabled (or forced) a normally very loyal customer to experience the competition – and I loved it! Not only was VA’s price about $500 cheaper, the product was much better. They offer booze before take-off (don’t know why QF doesn’t do that?), the cabin is smaller and more intimate, the food was great, the staff really friendly, but best of all – there was no terrible tacky safety demo video (am I the only one that finds the QF demo video exhausting to listen to?)

I am LTG with Qantas, and to be perfectly frank, the oneworld Sapphire benefits that provides with other airlines is more attractive to me than Qantas itself. I am seriously considering abandoning my annual marathon to maintain Platinum, switching to VA for domestic, and flying CX/JL/MH etc. when going overseas. It’s amazing how cheap fares are on those carriers as long you don’t care about the status credits!

The way I am feeling at the moment I couldn’t care if I never stepped inside the Red Rat again.
#sadface

You must have met the same qantas business lounge staff member that I did, (whom I'm sure had never purchased a business class ticket themselves) similar experience, I was belittled for having a less expensive business class ticket. Was not impressed. Lucky it was only ground staff.

 

[stm1sydney]

as long you don’t care about the status credits!

Once you free yourself of the golden handcuffs of QFF, you find there is a whole world of airlines (Australian and foreign) which actually focus on customer service and are not exploiting rusted-on customers chasing LTG or with the misapprehension that they are still flying the "Spirit of Australia."

 

[Vic]

Not according to this experience ... Loyalty is a one way affair - goodbye QFF

Given my comment was that flying Jetstar doesn't hurt qantas business that other experience agrees with my comment. Flying with jetstar gives Qantas profit.

 

[Berlin]

Once you free yourself of the golden handcuffs of QFF, you find there is a whole world of airlines (Australian and foreign) which actually focus on customer service and are not exploiting rusted-on customers chasing LTG or with the misapprehension that they are still flying the "Spirit of Australia."

Oh now come the Qantas haters out there again I've been p#@@ed by QF myself a few times lately so even I am now putting my feelers out and am trying what the competition has to offer, after 15+ years of close-to-loyalty to OneWorld.

However, Qantas is still one of the best "legacy" airlines around! BA, LH, LATAM, not even talking about the likes of Air France or Alitalia- Qantas trumps any of these any day. Food, service, reliability and I could go on- not a single one of these even remotely takes it up with Qantas. Note that I am comparing apples with apples and not a highly regulated legacy carrier with who-knows what government-owned Asian or Middle Eastern carrier.

And you have the occasional awful, rude and badly trained dragon or pittbull in almost every single customer-facing company. These are obviously in the wrong job (and, at the risk of sounding a bit ageist, often in my experience look like they'll retire or die soon anyway). But that is not at all limited to Qantas and if anything, you actually have a muuuuch higher Dragon:Nice staff ratio at the likes of BA and LH.

 

[Quickstatus]

The price I quoted was the base AND the bundle - that's why such a good deal! The base was $90 or something like that and the bundle was $85 I think.

There is no logic to JQ pricing.... I just booked an equivalent MEL-SYD on JQ (base and bundle) and it cost 2x as much as MEL-BNE

The pricing of airline tickets is a dark arts and is not dependant on just distance.
But MEL-SYD is very much a premium sector, whereas MEL-BNE less so, so the price can often be less on a longer route. There is logic - just not available to punters like you and me

 

[Ekka]

Couldn't agree more but it's a good source of laughter too: My partner and me, we travel SO much lately, we have it all as a running gag that we pull up from time to time.

Our favorite is probably also the "Double shot please. Your aircraft does great coffee too". But we're also partial to a random "Ooooh, I dropped my phone!" and whenever anyone jumps into a pool, we straight away shake our heads and say "Aussies!"

Australians do not say "favorite"; that is a Yank attemot to spell favourite.

 

[Berlin]

Australians do not say "favorite"; that is a Yank attemot to spell favourite.

Meh.

 

[DaveB]

Not sure what logic there is keeping someone in your lounge longer and missing the slightly more chance of selling a seat flying a few hours later.
Regardless of families lack of status, VA have always offered family members a J seat swap when arriving at the airport early and seats are available.

 

[stm1sydney]

the Qantas haters

Ouch! Is that more or less offensive than me making reference to "Qantas fanbois"?

 

[craven morehead]

Australians do not say "favorite"; that is a Yank attemot to spell favourite.

Australians also say attempt and not attemot. Is that Yank spelling?

 

[dxwell]

The most important lesson in all of this is:

• As a customer, let the seller know that you are not satisfied with the purchase

Most companies now keep an active monitor on customer satisfaction. However, this is typically data-driven - automatic collation of customer satisfaction statistics aggregated across multiple channels.
What is needed is a break-out trend line of customer type X on experience type Y. This is what stands out on a visual report.
e.g. 25% of LTG have had a bad experience with catering in domestic J - quantitative data that can be acted upon.
When you post your gripes on this wonderful forum but don't complain through the airline channels, then your gripe is silent & invisible. The data simply does not make its way to decision makers.
Also make sure that you provide feedback on the behaviour of an individual. It is likely that the QF agent gave the same treatment to 9 pax before giving the same treatment to the OP. If all 10 pax had provided immediate or temporal feedback on the QF agent, then the manager would know the issue was with the QF agent and could have responded.
I really do feel that we have become inured to the service that we receive. The level of service that we receive then is entirely of our own making. Let's change this.
The revolution starts with one person standing on the street.
So, I encourage you to provide feedback at point of transaction, ask to speak with the manager, lodge a respectful observation of poor customer service.
Let me be clear: If you pay for bargain basement, then you should enjoy and accept the roulette wheel of service. If you pay for quality of service, then take on your responsibility to imbue the commensurate level of service.