QF crew in J cabin - how appropriate?

[anat0l]

Ok, so you may want to sit down for this bit as this is where the story gets very uncomfortable.

<<story here>>

Now that's not acceptable. Obviously, perhaps some seats should have been set aside as crew rest, so someone on the ground stuffed up on that one.

Given the error later there was certainly no need to accost you in that way. They should have realised that a mistake had been made on the ground and to make better arrangements from there without needing to accost you.

 

[serfty]

...
In my experience on QF, I get those expectations met or exceeded around 97% of the time.

My expectations of this are met about 55% of the time - main point of failure is 2) about the "ignore" {call} button. :evil:

 

[dajop]

A 20 hour domestic shift? I think not. In answer to your other question....

The crew may not necessarily have been domestic, it is not uncommon for intl crew to be repositioned between MEL & SYD.

However this is probably totally irrelevant, I have no problem with crew deadheading in J, entirely reasonable. But do agree that in no way should their presence impinge on the duties of on-duty crew in giving preference to paying customers. I am sure most of us have witnessed the exact opposite of what you have described with the deadheading crew getting served etc after paying customers and the duty crew behaving completely professionally. But every now and then a few crew will pop up behaving very differently to how you would expect and well, there you have it ...

 

[anat0l]

My expectations of this are met about 55% of the time - main point of failure is 2) about the "ignore" {call} button. :evil:

Point taken.

I haven't used the call button for a long time now. In the rare cases I do use it (probably 3 times in the last 4 years), it has been answered once.

 

[UP4014]

Ok so this has probably been discussed before but at risk of being labelled a Qantas-basher I wanted to share my recent experience and see what others think.

"At the risk of being labelled a Qantas-basher" I don't think that's a risk, you do start threads and bash Qantas, that actually makes you a Qantas basher.

Matt

 

[medhead]

I find that rebuttal extremely cynical.

Name jobs which are harder than the domestic FA which have longer hours which are just as or even more dangerous. No, you cannot count you as the executive in a marketing agency working 16 hour days to meet deadlines and appease your clients.

Just because a job may be longer and more dangerous than a domestic FA's job doesn't make it so that fatigue is not a significant contributor to workplace accidents. Of course, it would help a lot if the working hours of FAs (and people in other industries with similar hours and loads) were reworked to avoid this kind of risk..

More dangerous jobs with longer hours? Just about any job in an underground mine or surface mine or mineral processing plant. Certainly more dangerous. And mostly 12 hour shifts. But then 9 hr 45 mins sounds a lot like it could be 12 hours minus statutory breaks.

Of course these all prove the point that fatigue is a major contributor to accidents and that appropriate rest is required.

I also wanted to make the point that the restrictions on hotel staff sound like they are related to staff safety; protection from customers that might have a gripe, or are unstable, and decide to stalk a staff member.

 

[medhead]

"At the risk of being labelled a Qantas-basher" I don't think that's a risk, you do start threads and bash Qantas, that actually makes you a Qantas basher.

Matt

I don't know about it being "bashing". But it does seem to me that a lot of these threads and anecdotes would be prime candidates for feedback to qantas.
Max have you raised any of these occurrences with qantas?

 

[MatF]

I must admit I was a bit peeved once last year when (on a Friday afternoon of a very, very long week) I couldn't get an on-departure upgrade to J because it was full (not unusual), then got on the plane to find J full of deadheading FA's.

After I thought about it, I came to the conclusion that it was OK and reasonable, and I didn't have a problem with it, but as a passenger it did annoy me at the time. Selfish me

 

[anat0l]

"At the risk of being labelled a Qantas-basher" I don't think that's a risk, you do start threads and bash Qantas, that actually makes you a Qantas basher.

Matt

Let's not jump too far. The OP has had another thread that gives QF some credit.

 

[djfuzz]

I don't think the disdain the OP shows for QF crew and the demands of their job really helps the somewhat legitimate underlying point.

I've had experiences on both sides of the equation, and can sympathise - as a paying J passenger, I have unfortunately missed out on a meal choice when deadheading staff took up the bulk of the cabin. On the other hand, in the past as a staff travel beneficiary I'd regularly be told that I'd have to wait until paying pax were served before getting my meal (as is appropriate).

I think docjames summed it up perfectly, quoted for emphasis:

No issue with crew travelling in any class.

Agree 100% that the (paying - points or $$) passengers should not get a second rate service, just becuase the (working) crew want to gossip.

I would have thought it reasonable to give priority to the paying pax for
- seat selection
- meals / drinks

If there's time left over and passenger's needs are met throughout the flight, gossip away (discreetly, not so the whole cabin can hear).

QF staff themselves have many restrictions and limitations when it comes to travel, even when it is for duty purposes - but when the seats are available and the rules are adhered to, staff travel is a legitimate benefit that they are entitled to. They're also human beings, so keeping things in perspective from time to time helps.

 

[Paddy55]

I don't think the disdain the OP shows for QF crew and the demands of their job really helps the somewhat legitimate underlying point.

I've had experiences on both sides of the equation, and can sympathise - as a paying J passenger, I have unfortunately missed out on a meal choice when deadheading staff took up the bulk of the cabin. On the other hand, in the past as a staff travel beneficiary I'd regularly be told that I'd have to wait until paying pax were served before getting my meal (as is appropriate).

I think docjames summed it up perfectly, quoted for emphasis:



QF staff themselves have many restrictions and limitations when it comes to travel, even when it is for duty purposes - but when the seats are available and the rules are adhered to, staff travel is a legitimate benefit that they are entitled to. They're also human beings, so keeping things in perspective from time to time helps.

DJFuzz

I agree with you 100%

Also can relate several stories along the lines of others where dead-heading staff get preferential treatment to the point ignoring the pax paying their way... and is it annoying at the time... you bethcha

Loved the attitude of the American Eagle CEO - that's leadership!

Paddy

 

[Max Samuels]

"At the risk of being labelled a Qantas-basher" I don't think that's a risk, you do start threads and bash Qantas, that actually makes you a Qantas basher.

Matt

Oh I get it. You don't approve of people speaking their mind? Of telling the story how it is, even if it's no so rosy?

This really underlines the reason why customer service is so dreadful in this country. It's like we all have Stockholm syndrome - we've suffered so long at the hands of bad service that we don't know how to experience anything else.

In any other industry, criticism wouldn't be taken as "bashing", it would be taken as: thank you for your input. We will try and make things better becasue we value as a customer and want your business.

I think it is interesting that although there are many "anti" qantas posts around, people are still making excuses for them! Could it be that the reason there are so many negative comments about Qantas, is because more often than not their service is not very good? Is it just possible that this is true?

 

[Max Samuels]

Max have you raised any of these occurrences with qantas?

The funny thing is that yes, I have. They used to not even have a number you could call. Just by post. That shows how serious they took customer complaints.

Several years back I raised a complaint. Spoke to someone on the phone. A lot of back and forth. Got some letter apologising about the "incident" which wasn't even mentioned by name. That's it.

On the other hand, whenever I am staying in a Starwood hotel, if I have a problem (which is very rare) it is fixed immediately. Things start coming off the bill. Gifts are sent to my room. Once at the Sheraton Mirage GC I complained about a staff member who was a total bi*ch to me, and received a personal letter from the manager who promised to look after me personally the next time i stayed there. Sure enough, 6 months later, I thought I would take him up on the offer. I emailed through to him my itin. Needless to say the stay was amazing and there upgrades to suites and free dining etc etc. The point is they expressed to me that they wanted my business. And I appreciated that gesture and we kiss and made up. And I go there still. And it cost them NOTHING but the goodwill is priceless.

i understand that a hotel is smaller than an airline, but they should try harder to acknowledge customer feedback.

On a positive note, last year during the GFC when I all but stopped travel they extended my status another year although i was way way way way off meeting the required credits!

 

[medhead]

Oh I get it. You don't approve of people speaking their mind? Of telling the story how it is, even if it's no so rosy?

This really underlines the reason why customer service is so dreadful in this country. It's like we all have Stockholm syndrome - we've suffered so long at the hands of bad service that we don't know how to experience anything else.

In any other industry, criticism wouldn't be taken as "bashing", it would be taken as: thank you for your input. We will try and make things better becasue we value as a customer and want your business.

I think it is interesting that although there are many "anti" qantas posts around, people are still making excuses for them! Could it be that the reason there are so many negative comments about Qantas, is because more often than not their service is not very good? Is it just possible that this is true?

I think your being rather harsh here and overreacting. The fact is that this is not the place to criticise qantas as a way of making input to improve service. Hence why it can be taken as bashing.

That is why I asked my question if you contacted the company. I thought you would have and that is why I wouldn't say the posts here are bashing per se. I also think your trying to be informative (gee that sounds arrogant as I type), another reason for me to not use the bashing term.

But then others have different options. That doesn't mean that they don't respect your opinion just they don't agree.
And now I'm lecturing. Sorry. Especially as with my track record I'm standing on very shaky ground.

 

[anat0l]

Oh I get it. You don't approve of people speaking their mind? Of telling the story how it is, even if it's no so rosy?

Now I think it is you who is projecting yourself on other people.

In any other industry, criticism wouldn't be taken as "bashing", it would be taken as: thank you for your input. We will try and make things better becasue we value as a customer and want your business.

Have you tried most (if not all) government agencies? Or politicians for that matter? Legal professions? Media companies? Retail? Car rental (oh boy, let's get started there, shall we)? Even the hospitality and accommodation industries.

You may like to think otherwise, but it is naive to think that the airline industry is the only one that appears to have a throw-away attitude towards customer criticism, let alone the worst industry.

Could it be that the reason there are so many negative comments about Qantas, is because more often than not their service is not very good? Is it just possible that this is true?

Of course it is possible that it might be true. Not sure how one is supposed to find a way of disproving that.

 

[gilby08]

Guys, i just want to point out that the dead heading staff are actually confirmed bookings, and not standby, the pay a certain price (obviously using a QF account) and then confirmed on that flight. They are basically 'paying' passengers too. And alot of the dead heading staff are from and going to international flights.

 

[dk4]

Three points I would like to add to this discussion -

1./ Crew feeding.
I would like to hope that their meal options are divided exactly equally between the crew, by zone, on every flight - from the flight deck to the back galley. That way, if there are two meal options, and half the crew eat option one and end up with food poisoning, the remainder will be able to continue to function.

2./ Staff travel in all cabins
I would like to hope that staff from throughout the airline, travel in all class, at varying times. So all areas of the operation can better understand my experience as a customer. That means that bag handlers fly first class (perhaps learning how important premium customer service is to their company) and executive management flies in the back rows of economy on intercontinental segments (perhaps experiencing how important small comforts are to those who fly back there).

3./ Call buttons
(As serfty & others have posted in other threads) want attention = fly Jetstar. Jetstar staff, must be scored on this "standard" by mystery fliers, because they are so consistently good at it. (But they are becoming a little lapse about sitting down quickly when the seat belt sign is lit, failing to demonstrate desired behaviour and encourage customer adherence to the sign.)

 

[dajop]

3./ Call buttons
(As serfty & others have posted in other threads) want attention = fly Jetstar. Jetstar staff, must be scored on this standard by mystery fliers, because they are so consistently good at it.

Are they on commission for in flight sales? Because I gather most times the call button is pressed on Jetstar it is an opportunity to sell something.

 

[JohnK]

You wouldn't be implying that the rest of us (bar JohnK) are nonsensical or lacking common sense just because only one person has fully validated everything you said, right?

That is not the impression I got from the post.

Never noticed. In fact, in my experiences, dead-heading crew rarely talk extensively to the service crew (even in the galley) and keep mainly to themselves with no more noise than a couple of regular travelling pax. Certainly they should be mindful of what they are saying whilst around other pax.

I don't fly as often as some people on here but I do fly SYD-BNE and vv very regularly and can see this quite often. I have even witnessed a passenger in business class asked (nicely) to move so 2 dead heading crew can sit together.

Guys, i just want to point out that the dead heading staff are actually confirmed bookings, and not standby, the pay a certain price (obviously using a QF account) and then confirmed on that flight. They are basically 'paying' passengers too. And alot of the dead heading staff are from and going to international flights.

And let's keep in mind that the internal QF account is not going to rake in the profits for Qantas.

I can understand that dead-heading crew also have rights but the customer always comes first. Which means dead-heading crew should

- Keep a very low profile on-board the plane and do not stop the crew on duty from performing their job (the crew on duty should be walking around asking people for top-ups not talking to their off-duty colleagues)
- The customer should get first choice of meals (if that means asking passengers their meal choice before the meal service then so be it)
- Sit in the most unwanted seats (yes middles seats) in business class and if they are not sitting next to their work colleague then so be it

Is that too much to ask?

 

[ejb]

My expectations of this are met about 55% of the time - main point of failure is 2) about the "ignore" {call} button. :evil:

That is my one complaint, mrs ejb is still waiting on her call button to be answered from her last PER-SYD flight in whY (it was 2006)

Even a quick "I'll be with you shortly" is enough, at least you know they noticed.

ejb