Qantas First Lounge Dress Code

[MEL_Traveller]

Err, no, it's a Qantas lounge, so Qantas sets the rules, not the passengers. As Red Roo says, ALL Qantas lounges has the "smart casual" requirement.

I think this is once case where you don't roll out the 'due to customer feedback' line unless your 'customer feedback' is from the right market. In that sense, passengers will determine the dress code for the lounge, if Qantas wants to keep them

Red Roo was quoting the lounge admittance policy for domestic lounges and Qantas clubs. The MEL/SYD First lounges are not Qantas clubs. Post #2: there are no specific rules (except for items which would be illegal or offensive) for First lounges.

If someone wanted to get changed into their PJs before getting on the flight, I would find it strange that they'd be denied access or asked to leave the lounge.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Some interesting ideas in this thread.
First, that the F lounges are "really" for F PAX and status PAX are lucky to be admitted and should be seen but not heard.
The lounges are "really" for those QF chooses to admit. F lounge is just a name. Other carriers have different names for the same concept.
The QF F lounges are not like the dedicated QR lounges in the new Doha terminals which, AFAIK, are strictly for PAX booked into J or F respectively for the relevant flight.
Status PAX flying in economy are directed to other lounges. EY does a similar thing at Abu Dhabi.
Perhaps the F lounge would not exist if QF abolished the F cabins on the A380s. However I doubt they'd justify their existence if they stopped admitting status PAX either.
As an increasing number of carriers (such as QF, MH, QR) offer F only on A380s and not on the rest of their fleets, the proportion of F PAX obviously declines.
The second is that the PAX who "really" belong in the F lounge can do as they will. This is clearly nonsense.
Even if you discount the presence of status PAX, each and every F PAX's freedom in the lounge is at least limited by an obligation not to infringe on the freedom of other F PAX.
Maybe it is acceptable to change into your pyjamas prior to a flight. Personally, I wouldn't do it. However there clearly is a line beyond which other PAX would be offended.
Being naked in the lounge would clearly not be acceptable. Loud, aggressive behaviour, smoking and other unsantitary behaviour would not be acceptable.
I cannot see any reason why the line would be drawn in one place for other F PAX but in another place for status PAX flying in a different cabin on their next flight.
They are not distinctly different groups on any basis which is relevant to setting such standards of behaviour.
In fact, due to the fleet changes I referred to above, in many cases they will be the same people flying on different routes.
When we pay an F fare we pay for a seat in the F cabin with all the attendant luxury in flight, access to a relatively exclusive lounge, chauffeur drive etc.
We don't pay for a license to behave in a manner which would be deemed offensive if we had only paid a J fare.
For that you need an invitation to the CL!

 

[RichardMEL]

I understand the concept in theory behind what MEL_Traveller is suggesting, though I disagree with some aspects of it personally.. but there's idea, and there's reality.

I can't help thinking of LH's FCT in FRA which really *is* for your paid LH F passengers. No Star Alliance riff raff or UA F passengers or the like. Or the SQ "Private Room" in SIN for Suites passengers. I wonder are passengers consulted? or more exactly I imagine they have a dress code too. I don't know if changing into pj's in the lounge would or wouldn't be OK. Somehow I suspect not.

The way I see it, all these lounges, whatever they've called or whoever the intended main customers are, they are, more or less, public spaces (albeit controlled by private entities be it QF, LH, SQ or whoever). With that idea in mind, I see the dress codes as being a more or less common denominator of what is considered socially acceptable, which depends on where you are, customs - clothing, behaviour, attitudes etc. And here's the core - no matter who you ask you'll get a different answer. I mean what IS "smart casual" anyway? I reckon if you asked a group of 2005 people vs 2015 what "smart casual" was, you'd get a different answer, as not only do trends change, but so do fashions and the like. Heck I work a white collar job which 30 years ago everyone would be in white shirts, ties and boring suits. and now I sit here in jeans and a polo shirt, which is acceptable.

While I personally feel the majority of these dress code things are silly (specially the domestic lounge issue discussed elsewhere) I think it's really an effort to, in effect, "mandate common sense" as tends to be seen to be needed more and more these days. The vast majority of us wouldn't go barefoot into a lounge, and it seems only one of us thinks a Mankini might be appropriate D ) but sometimes people need to be reminded of the obvious. A bit like a warning on a coffee cup "Contents hot"

The notion that "F passengers pay $$$$ for the experience where they don't have to worry about X,Y and Z" is fair enough but I think it's somewhat elitist and not really reasonable to extend to "You pay a lot of money you can do what you like" kind of idea. Why I paid for Suites Class... I can throw empty bottles of Dom at Y passengers right?

I think if one really wanted the ability to do much as they please, that's the real place to have a private jet then if you want to fly to your destination nude covered in maple syrup then hey... knock yourself out...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...

The second is that the PAX who "really" belong in the F lounge can do as they will. This is clearly nonsense.
Even if you discount the presence of status PAX, each and every F PAX's freedom in the lounge is at least limited by an obligation not to infringe on the freedom of other F PAX.
Maybe it is acceptable to change into your pyjamas prior to a flight. Personally, I wouldn't do it. However there clearly is a line beyond which other PAX would be offended.
Being naked in the lounge would clearly not be acceptable. Loud, aggressive behaviour, smoking and other unsantitary behaviour would not be acceptable.
I cannot see any reason why the line would be drawn in one place for other F PAX but in another place for status PAX flying in a different cabin on their next flight.
They are not distinctly different groups on any basis which is relevant to setting such standards of behaviour.
In fact, due to the fleet changes I referred to above, in many cases they will be the same people flying on different routes.
When we pay an F fare we pay for a seat in the F cabin with all the attendant luxury in flight, access to a relatively exclusive lounge, chauffeur drive etc.
We don't pay for a license to behave in a manner which would be deemed offensive if we had only paid a J fare.
For that you need an invitation to the CL!

So the bulk of passengers are in the lounge because of status. They outnumber F pax two or three to one. It's ok for them so say 'oh, we don't like thongs' and they out-vote the first class passenger who is actually paying?

If the economy and business passengers don't like the ambiance of the F lounge they can go elsewhere.

No one is suggesting F pax can do what they want. But I am suggesting the vast majority of F pax wouldn't care what another person is wearing, and the dress code would likely be far more relaxed if being determined by F pax rather than economy and business class passengers (as we have seen from the sister thread elsewhere on AFF).

If someone was naked in the lounge, the issue would probably be one of mental health. I would not expect that to be handled under the dress code, but on medical grounds.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I think if one really wanted the ability to do much as they please, that's the real place to have a private jet then if you want to fly to your destination nude covered in maple syrup then hey... knock yourself out...

Most humans with an IQ over 10 wouldn't be doing this regardless of class of travel.

If I understand correctly what MEL_Traveller is getting at is that paying first class passengers wouldn't have a bar of some BS rule about no thongs or no PJs. If they want to wear havanas - it's going to happen. Most folks paying for F are not doing so for the 'luxury experience' but it's a way of life. First is the standard class of travel and anyone paying less is on a discounted ticket to save cash.

It's not as much as 'letting them do what they please' as it is understanding the lifestyle of your average paying F customer where all they want is to be as comfortable as possible.

I see the lounge dress code akin to staff travel where there is a minimum standard for ID pax in premium cabins. If you're in the lounge by virtue of status it's not what you paid for therefore you need to meet the standard set out by the club.

Agree with MEL_Traveller that it's the F pax that set the standard.

 

[RichardMEL]

wouldn't care[/I] what another person is wearing, and the dress code would likely be far more relaxed if being determined by F pax rather than economy and business class passengers (as we have seen from the sister thread elsewhere on AFF).

I'm sorry. I'm honestly confused by what you're writing.

you seem to be suggesting certain stereotypes (F passengers have different standards to Y/J - says who?) or that somehow those passengers seated in Y and J on a particular flight, but in a lounge called the "First" Lounge due to their status are somehow inferior to the F passengers? I wonder what you'd make of the F passenger who "paid" for it with miles they bought through AA or something and had no status.

Those with status PAY for that many times over by virtue of attaining status (let's not go crazy and talk about status matches and the like).

It is QF's right (in this instance) to allow into their lounges (First, Business, QC) whoever they determine to allow in. I understand the international F lounges serve as the CL also.

The way I see it, in terms of access to the lounge, if the operator determines you are entitled to access to the lounge, through status, or paid F, or whatever, then you've "paid" (one way or another) to be there. I don't get why groups of passengers, by your reckoning, should be treated differently (exception: booking of spa serrvices, or other things that the operator, such as QF, determine have a specific priority for certain customers, such as those in First on QF metal).

Finally this line to me makes zero sense (but maybe it's just me):

I am suggesting the vast majority of F pax wouldn't care what another person is wearing, and the dress code would likely be far more relaxed if being determined by F pax rather than economy and business class passengers

SURELY, the slovenly hoardes of Y and J passengers (since that's what you seem to be implying) would be MORE relaxed than those stuffy upper crust F passengers? (I sense a diversion to JQi passengers impending ).

I've lost the plot. why is this even being "debated" again?!

 

[footy99]

The rules for QF international lounges are the same for all OW international lounges. Is this allowed on the plane is the same question as is this allowed in the lounge. I don't think the mankini passes the test. Thongs and PJs do, although are now specifically excluded in a few domestic lounges.

I've never seen anyone push this to an unacceptable extreme so most of the alternative debate is in the hypothetical. In reality, it works great.

I think a lot of people confuse "smart, casual dress standards" with "smart casual" dress standards, and then try to impose their version of smart casual into their hypothetical debate. "Smart, casual dress" is then explained as excluding "bare feet and clothing with offensive images" which tells you the standard - the same as on the plane.

So there's no confusion for anyone at home about to take an international flight - just wear whatever you're going to wear on the plane and if you have time to pop in to the F lounge beforehand, you'll be welcomed. It applies equally for F passengers and WPs.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm sorry. I'm honestly confused by what you're writing.

you seem to be suggesting certain stereotypes (F passengers have different standards to Y/J - says who?) or that somehow those passengers seated in Y and J on a particular flight, but in a lounge called the "First" Lounge due to their status are somehow inferior to the F passengers? I wonder what you'd make of the F passenger who "paid" for it with miles they bought through AA or something and had no status.

Those with status PAY for that many times over by virtue of attaining status (let's not go crazy and talk about status matches and the like).

It is QF's right (in this instance) to allow into their lounges (First, Business, QC) whoever they determine to allow in. I understand the international F lounges serve as the CL also.

The way I see it, in terms of access to the lounge, if the operator determines you are entitled to access to the lounge, through status, or paid F, or whatever, then you've "paid" (one way or another) to be there. I don't get why groups of passengers, by your reckoning, should be treated differently (exception: booking of spa serrvices, or other things that the operator, such as QF, determine have a specific priority for certain customers, such as those in First on QF metal).

Finally this line to me makes zero sense (but maybe it's just me):



SURELY, the slovenly hoardes of Y and J passengers (since that's what you seem to be implying) would be MORE relaxed than those stuffy upper crust F passengers? (I sense a diversion to JQi passengers impending ).

I've lost the plot. why is this even being "debated" again?!

the answer to all of this is as trippin_the_rift eloquently summarised, and footy99 followed up on.

as to the 'slovenly hoardes of Y and J passengers' I don't think that argument holds true. For at least some passengers I suspect they see holding qantas club membership as a status symbol... and dress codes as a way of making their lounge 'special' and distinguishing them from the rest of the economy passengers. I'd be concerned if those views were brought in to the dress code for the F lounge.

 

[RichardMEL]

OK yes just to bring this tangent to a close(hopefully ) yes, I get what trippin_the_rift and footy99 are saying, and I agree with them (specially footy99) regarding this issue. I think I misinterpreted the line "....the dress code would likely be far more relaxed if being determined by F pax rather than economy and business class passengers"

I know I don't pay an airfare, of any class, but certainly premium, to worry about what someone else is wearing (as I've written in any of these dress code type threads, it's hygene and poor behaviour that really bother me rather than what someone's wearing... that's their business if you ask me).

I also absolutely agree with the point (which is what I was basically also saying) that QC members(for example) have an expectation of a minimum dress requirement. Remembering that the QC (IIRC) existed long before QF joined an alliance like oneworld and had requirements to, for example, let partner top tiers into their lounges and so on, that it really was more of a "members club"

I'm also interested in the notion of the phrases "smart, casual" and "smart casual" which definitely suggest 2 different things. pesky comma!

thanks all

 

[Flying mermaid]

Good lord no. Have you no dress sense? A mankini is accompanied by Salvatore Ferragamo Custom Parigi Drivers.

. I used the new Qantas rules to justify to Mr FM the purchase of a pair of Salvatore Ferragamo flats when I was in Sydney last week. .

 

[TheRealTMA]

. I used the new Qantas rules to justify to Mr FM the purchase of a pair of Salvatore Ferragamo flats when I was in Sydney last week. .

So he didn't have wear his thongs?

 

[Flying mermaid]

So he didn't have wear his thongs?

For me silly, so I didn't have to stress about when a thong was a thong and when it was a sandal.

 

[russ]

Do they normally stick to the ceiling like that?

 

[Flying mermaid]

Do they normally stick to the ceiling like that?

Yes if you have super powers ( and are lousy at taking photos)

 

[JohnK]

It was kind of putting 2+2 together to get 5.

If the dress code is designed for the comfort and enjoyment of guests, then the guests consulted should be those for whom the lounge is designed. Should an economy or business class passenger, entering the lounge via status, be in a position to make a call as to whether the dress code is revisited, or needing to be changed? I don't believe an economy/business passenger should get to change the clothing of a first class passenger for the one or two hours they might share a lounge.

I think you are mistaken with Qantas. It is a Platinum lounge where First class guests are allowed in.

And also please tell me how thongs, sandals, t-shirt (and not I do not mean a polo but a stupid t-shirt with no collar or pockets), singlets could possibly be regarded as smart casual?

I have earned my right to be in the First lounges. I would like to see the dress code enforced. Beach wear is suitable for the beach. Not lounges.

 

[russ]

I think you are mistaken with Qantas. It is a Platinum lounge where First class guests are allowed in.

Really?! Don't you think the name "First" is a big hint?!

 

[maninblack]

When we pay an F fare we pay for a seat in the F cabin with all the attendant luxury in flight, access to a relatively exclusive lounge, chauffeur drive etc.

If only this was the reality!

 

[JohnK]

Really?! Don't you think the name "First" is a big hint?!

Not at all. You don't build something as big as SYD First lounge for First passengers only. Do you?

 

[TomVexille]

Not at all. You don't build something as big as SYD First lounge for First passengers only. Do you?

Ask LH

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ask LH

Well - LH has the numbers I guess.

But not forgetting when the First Lounge was opened there was at least one more daily flight operating with F - to HKG. So that gave LAX/LHR/HKG - around 45 pax per day for use. Add to that BA pax. So maybe 55 pax a day - which at a notional $100 value for entry, would return around $2m in 'revenue' a year.

While there's no hong kong anymore, there are EK F pax.

I'd say the lounge was 'about right' for F only. It can get very crowded now (and service suffers).