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Qantas First Class "Nothing more than a premium business class"

kermatu

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Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
5,892
Book the cook. You know thats just a marketing ploy. There is no cook/chef onboard.
Sure but you can choose from dozens of meals - including genuine first class meals - and be guaranteed to receive it onboard. QF F meals are barely J class and not guaranteed. Worlds apart.

I'm only reading the edited version of the OP's story - but the onboard experience rings true to me. Disagree with MEL F lounge experience based on my dozens of visits.
 

Quickstatus

AFF Supporter
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
7,218
What anthem?? As @Hvr posted the 'I still call Australia Home' piece disappeared a long time ago. Nothing since has - for me - been any kind of anthem or link to Australia.
That anthem. My understanding is that the airline sparingly uses it. But yes I haven’t heard it in years. Not the full orchestral choir piece but the quiet background song. Miss it much. Thanks @Hvr but it’s not the same
 

MEL_Traveller

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Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
18,350
@lacuska1 ‘s post does raise an interesting question.

Is there a reference standard for a F class?. What are the necessary elements of a truly F class service and do any airline that offer F class have them?.

Is F class a relic of a bygone age?

Domestic US F class is F in name only. Even the fare buckets don’t have F anymore (at least in AA). Is “First” just marketing?

In the past QF had “champagne class” when it operated the Super Connies. What was that service compared to current F? I don’t think they had Lie flat seats.
Ive seen pictures of connies with lie flat seats/beds, but not full flat. (But pretty close.)

There are a few airlines that continue to invest in their F product. But the product you prefer/choose may depend on the experience you are seeking. ‘Bang for you buck’ or ‘extension of your lifestyle [on the ground]’. Two quite different benchmarks, although i suspect the latter will be happy with a much broader choice of carriers.
 

RooFlyer

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Nov 12, 2012
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Yes but what makes it “pleasant and comfortable”?. For the price shouldn’t it be “luxurious”?
It's all relative, hence the structure of my post. In reality, "pleasant and comfortable" is whatever floats your boat, as is "luxurious".

I don't want to be 'pampered' in First, I just want to be assured of a nice, comfortable ride, because I know while I'll be Ok in business ( and since we are talking First cabins, we are also talking long haul), I also know things can go a bit pear shaped there. In First, it should be more personal, more controllable .... just a nice 10-17 hours in the air almost guaranteed.
 

Forg

Active Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
544
You see pictures from a bygone era of F with lounges & side-tables, which look like a hoity-toity exclusive club ... but I don’t know how long ago that ended, I imagine the jet age’s introduction of affordability probably started shaving enough profit off the top of each ticket (plus I guess the power & range to carry higher passenger densities) was when that stopped.

So, J hard-product now is definitely more luxurious than F hard-product was in the late 70’s. It mightn’t look as luxo as F did back then (I don’t know - it looks old & crusty to me now), but in terms of comfort, J is way better (and adjusted for inflation it’s cheaper than Y then).

My only recent F experience was EK, although my better half has been upgraded to F by QR. I’ve only flown J twice, one of those 10yrs ago & the other on CI so not top-tier. Now I didn’t really know what to expect in EK F, and maybe the slightly dubious taste (fashioned after Liza Minelli’s house circa 1974?) took the shine off, and while I’m not going to say it wasn’t nice (how can you not be impressed by mid-air showers - the first time at least?), I definitely couldn’t see the extra value over J. Very slightly bigger IFE screen, probably better service (problem there being that it’s good in J so ‘better’ is difficult), the food may have been better but obviously not as good as you’d get going to your average restaurant at the $30-$40 mains price-point. The lack of wowing by the wine list is probably more an EK thing than an F thing (I’m guessing they were chosen based on price not quality).

Anyhoo ... all that TLDR is trying to say is that J is soo good these days, I think they’ve not come up with ways to make F enough better for it to be worth the extra money. I’m guessing it’s primarily FF’s with upgrades, and people for whom, after rounding-off, $15k is the same as $3.
 

Quickstatus

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Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
7,218
But the product you prefer/choose may depend on the experience you are seeking. ‘Bang for you buck’ or ‘extension of your lifestyle [on the ground]’. Two quite different benchmarks, although i suspect the latter will be happy with a much broader choice of carriers.
It's all relative,
Thats the problem.
Customers have varied expectations, and sometimes their expectations of F is not met. The airline has financial realities and a market expectations to cater to. Its a juggling act.

Re My expectations for F:
Dont want to be pampered
Dont want Bling
Want a quiet understated and spacious cabin
Stressfree airport experience
I don't want a greeting from captain
I would like service to be personable, but not a lord-servant interaction. Experienced FA
Inflight catering to be mostly restaurant quality - especially if the airline says its curated/designed by some famous celebrity
I understand that experiences can be less than expected - thats the nature of travel even first class travel.
Personal assistance with a concerted effort to mitigate consequences of delays and cancellations
 

Quickstatus

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Joined
Oct 13, 2013
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7,218
Sure but you can choose from dozens of meals - including genuine first class meals - and be guaranteed to receive it onboard. QF F meals are barely J class and not guaranteed. Worlds apart.

I'm only reading the edited version of the OP's story - but the onboard experience rings true to me. Disagree with MEL F lounge experience based on my dozens of visits.
@kermatu ,
Could you please describe what makes a "genuine" first class meal - (a) service (b) the meals?
 

MEL_Traveller

AFF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
18,350
You see pictures from a bygone era of F with lounges & side-tables, which look like a hoity-toity exclusive club ... but I don’t know how long ago that ended, I imagine the jet age’s introduction of affordability probably started shaving enough profit off the top of each ticket (plus I guess the power & range to carry higher passenger densities) was when that stopped.

So, J hard-product now is definitely more luxurious than F hard-product was in the late 70’s. It mightn’t look as luxo as F did back then (I don’t know - it looks old & crusty to me now), but in terms of comfort, J is way better (and adjusted for inflation it’s cheaper than Y then).

My only recent F experience was EK, although my better half has been upgraded to F by QR. I’ve only flown J twice, one of those 10yrs ago & the other on CI so not top-tier. Now I didn’t really know what to expect in EK F, and maybe the slightly dubious taste (fashioned after Liza Minelli’s house circa 1974?) took the shine off, and while I’m not going to say it wasn’t nice (how can you not be impressed by mid-air showers - the first time at least?), I definitely couldn’t see the extra value over J. Very slightly bigger IFE screen, probably better service (problem there being that it’s good in J so ‘better’ is difficult), the food may have been better but obviously not as good as you’d get going to your average restaurant at the $30-$40 mains price-point. The lack of wowing by the wine list is probably more an EK thing than an F thing (I’m guessing they were chosen based on price not quality).

Anyhoo ... all that TLDR is trying to say is that J is soo good these days, I think they’ve not come up with ways to make F enough better for it to be worth the extra money. I’m guessing it’s primarily FF’s with upgrades, and people for whom, after rounding-off, $15k is the same as $3.
What you seem to be describing is that you’re looking for a ‘special’ experience, and don’t see the difference between F and J representing value for money.

That’s ok, F is probably not really designed for you. It’s probably a ‘sum of the whole’ rather than being able to add the various individual components.

But there is a market for it, and the money to fill enough seats to make it worthwhile for the airlines that offer it. (And of course in the case of some seats in the cabin, F is used as an aspirational product for award tickets.)
 

serfty

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Nov 16, 2004
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It's all relative, hence the structure of my post. In reality, "pleasant and comfortable" is whatever floats your boat, as is "luxurious".

I don't want to be 'pampered' in First, I just want to be assured of a nice, comfortable ride, because I know while I'll be Ok in business ( and since we are talking First cabins, we are also talking long haul), I also know things can go a bit pear shaped there. In First, it should be more personal, more controllable .... just a nice 10-17 hours in the air almost guaranteed.
Of course the experienced Qantas traveller may be aware of the reality, but this is how Qantas promotes "First" travel* on their website: (Travel classes | Qantas AU)
FIRST said:
The world awaits you with time to relax or work in the luxury of First. We’ve anticipated anything you may require throughout your journey, beginning at your front door through to our exclusive First lounges and your private suite. Discover what you’ll look forward to including restaurant quality menus, fine Australian wines, to spa treatments and the latest entertainment.
Now, for a laugh, read this:
Fly with us in First to enjoy a journey of unsurpassed luxury.
...
Raise your expectations when you step into First
...
Experience the finest luxuries...
No wonder an infrequent Qantas First* Traveler may be disappointed.

(*They dropped the Class some years ago)
 

MEL_Traveller

AFF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
18,350
Thats the problem.
Customers have varied expectations, and sometimes their expectations of F is not met. The airline has financial realities and a market expectations to cater to. Its a juggling act.

Re My expectations for F:
Dont want to be pampered
Dont want Bling
Want a quiet understated and spacious cabin
Stressfree airport experience
I don't want a greeting from captain
I would like service to be personable, but not a lord-servant interaction. Experienced FA
Inflight catering to be mostly restaurant quality - especially if the airline says its curated/designed by some famous celebrity
I understand that experiences can be less than expected - thats the nature of travel even first class travel.
Personal assistance with a concerted effort to mitigate consequences of delays and cancellations
None of which is ‘luxurious’. It’s more about personalised service.

As for meals, I see them as a ‘concept’. There’s no way airlines can recreate hot dishes in the air to the standard of a restaurant on the ground.

But, none of the above should be a excuse for delivering a sub-standard product.
 

tgh

AFF Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Messages
1,280
We are functional flyers ; to that end J is mandated for the real and tangible benefits over the lower classes.
Nothing prompts me to pay or manage my affairs for F , we have walked through F cabins and simply do not value the enhancements on offer.
I am sure that those who fly F happily rationalise whatever input was required, good on 'em….
 

Quickstatus

AFF Supporter
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
7,218
When the airline tells the passenger to raise their expectations, they better realise that is what the passenger is going to do and some.

None of which is ‘luxurious’. It’s more about personalised service.

As for meals, I see them as a ‘concept’. There’s no way airlines can recreate hot dishes in the air to the standard of a restaurant on the ground.

But, none of the above should be a excuse for delivering a sub-standard product.
But some would want luxurious and personalised and restaurant quality especially when a celebrity chef is name dropped.
The airline does make it difficult for themselves sometimes

I don't see inflight meals in F as a concept - It should not be a experiment. I would hope that Neil would have thought it through and experimented first before the menu is released.
 
Last edited:

MEL_Traveller

AFF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
18,350
:confused: I'm not sure I understand.
No serious F passenger is going to read the blurb about QF F in making their decision to fly the airline or not. Schedule will most likely be the deciding factor.

I suspect the only people going to pay any attention to the F adverts will be those QF is enticing to part with point for either an upgrade or outright ticket.
 

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