Qantas Checkin Online - Seats up the front...

[OATEK]

My shadow increase as I fill ... :-|

Sadly very true for you and me, and of course it has nothing to do with airline status - many of those who are filling the fastest rarely fly...

 

[Grooba]

So forgive me for not paying too much attention when people start to get too worried about or expecting to have a shadow on every flight they are on because of some meaningless status they think entitles them to a spare seat next to them at all times.

I'm not sure where anyone is worried or expecting to have a shadow on every flight? Sure it's a nice perk but as serfty says it's most certainly a more regular occurrence on off-peak flights.
I can understand how it might be annoying to hear of others having a regular shadow when you don't but that hardly means it doesn't happen. Generally I'll also fly outside the peak times and have had a shadow in row 4 on probably 70% of my 738's and about the same on 767/330 (middle aisle).

Based on your observations I assume you choose rows 5 to 8 instead of 4 on the 738?

 

[JohnK]

I am not worried about a block being overridden - it's the myth you are promoting that is of concern:

It is not a hard block. I am not too concerned whether the seat I have spare next to me was as a result of a soft block or just pure luck. It is not a published benefit and I can see people getting worked over it.

You and I both know this is not true - it takes manual intervention (by someone with access to Qantas's systems) to override a "shadow"/Seat-block. Even going by your post I quote at the top you imply this part of your statement is incorrect (by referring to a conversation).

Your original contribution to this thread was to refute my post the the following post is incorrect:

Which, of course is indeed not true.

I am yet to be convinced that is true. I believe that every single spare seat on the aircraft is available to anyone when OLCI opens. Status barriers are certainly removed.

 

[serfty]

...

I am yet to be convinced that is true. I believe that every single spare seat on the aircraft is available to anyone when OLCI opens. Status barriers are certainly removed.

Believe what you wish - posting such claims results in an endeavour to refute them.

Here is is the situation: (Using a domestic 73H as an example)

Before T-80:

Qantas block certain rows depending on status. Altea does not appear to come into it at this stage.

Here is a general picture (can vary with route). Some seats in row 29 are often blocked (I assume pending unaccompanied minors)

Unless a seat is otherwise allocated:

For Business:
- row 1 is available to WP1 and CL.
- row 2 and 3 are available to CL, WP1 & WP
- row 3 is available to all.
For Economy:
- row 4, 5 and back are available to WP1 and CL.
- row 6, 7, 8, 9 and back are available to CL, WP1 & WP.
- row 10 and back are available to CL, WP1, WP & SG.
- row 18 and back are available.

After T-80:

Altea kicks in with "Theortical Seats": (http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ry-economy-passengers-14036.html#post182339)¹

So, with automatic systems, OLCI, & kiosk check-in Altea is no overridden. It takes an agent to do this.



¹

Another interesting Post on the Related FT thread on this article. The author lists their occupation as an "Analyst for Airline Industry":

Alright before this speculation gets out of hand (and believe me, this article is way off base with its story!!!), let me explain this concept.

With Qantas' switch of reservation system, there are alot of behind the scenes changes that have taken place. One of these new concepts is called 'Theoretical Seats,' and believe me when I say that it is an excellent idea in theory, but it will take some time to iron out the issues Qantas is currently going through. Basically, Qantas has setup a list order (or value [PCV]) of each pax for each and every flight (as well as values for individual seats on an aircraft). The ranking order takes into account FF status, PNR associations, SSRs, booking class, etc.

So, behind the scene before a pax even shows up to check-in, the system has allocated 'theoretical seats' for EVERY pax on that flight, depending the ranking order. What this means is that a pax with a high ranking order will have access to almost every seat available on the flight. A pax with a low ranking order will ONLY SEE SEATS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN BLOCKED BY THE 'THEORETICAL SEATS' FOR HIGHER RANKING PAX. Generally, if a flight is booked full (oversold), a low-ranking pax will see maybe 1 or 2 seats, or none at all available to them.

What this concept tries to do, is give pax with FF status, higher fare tickets, etc. better seats on an aircraft when pre-assignment is out of the question (QF doesn't pre-assign domestic seats, same for intra-Europe flights and Eurpoean carriers). Now, the issues that QF has had with this function relate to the way in which it had set up the ranking of pax. Families were checking in for flights and being spread out throughout an aircraft, and FF bookings (for status pax) were showing up at the bottom of the ranking order. QF has since fixed a lot of these issues internally, and regarding the article in question, THIS HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BUMPING PAX. ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. I'm not sure where that idea came from.

Now, the most difficult as you can imagine, is a check-in agent trying to explain this to pax as they are checking in bright and early for a flight, and not being allowed to access an open seat. It's a very complex situation, and not an easy one to explain.

So, hopefully that sheds some light onto the issue, but I would definitely take the article with a grain of salt, because there is very little valuable substance to it.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I have seen this many times myself.

What I posted was to state the following post is untrue:

Which, of course is basically incorrect.

I've seen row 4 filled with low status/no status pax many times with 5B/E avail too.

It's not difficult to get the good seats, all you need is some lame excuse and the QF agent will put you in 4B even though it says Premium Pax in 4A/C. I tried it with my friends Bronze boarding pass.

 

[serfty]

I've seen row 4 filled with low status/no status pax many times with 5B/E avail too.

It's not difficult to get the good seats, all you need is some lame excuse and the QF agent will put you in 4B even though it says Premium Pax in 4A/C. I tried it with my friends Bronze boarding pass.

This is true and as posted I have seen it myself.

I have done it myself, getting a no *O/QF status UA 1K into 4F on a flight beside me (4E) and SWMBO (4D).

However, unless your PCV is high enough it aint going to happen at OLCI or Quickcheck, nor at T-80 in the normal course of events.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I've seen row 4 filled with low status/no status pax many times with 5B/E avail too.

It's not difficult to get the good seats, all you need is some lame excuse and the QF agent will put you in 4B even though it says Premium Pax in 4A/C. I tried it with my friends Bronze boarding pass.

Maybe they took pity on you because of your height so thought you were a genuine case.....or you may have just exuded a WP1 aura.

That is my whole point. I understand seat blocking. But it can be overriden so it is meaningless from that point on.

It does not matter if the seat block moved with you throughout the cabin. A couple of keystrokes has rendered it useless. And it is a totally random process.

Mr Once in Year Flyer: (Looks at boarding pass and notices 29B) "Are there any seats further forward?"
Check-in Agent: "Window or Aisle?"
Mr Once in Year Flyer: "Aisle please!"
Check-in Agent: "How about 17D?"
Mr Once in Year Flyer: "Anything further forward?"
Check-in Agent: "Row 4 middle seat available! 4E!"
Mr Once in Year Flyer: "I will take it. Thank you."

If I can put the rose coloured glasses on for a sec.....just for arguments sake:


MOIYF: "Anything further forward"
CSA: (noting pax is a NB & not even needing to look who's in 4D or 4F)
17D is the most forward seat available (to him) so would you like that or did you want to stick with 29B"

I have seen what JohnK is talking about on many flights: Seats 4B and 4E are full and seats 5-8B&E are empty.

Don't assume that 4BE has been a manual override as frequently pax have moved themselves out of a perfectly good seat such as 7C of 7F at an airport kiosk because they can get row 4 - yes even a middle seat.

I was once in 4F on a 738 hoping 4E would remain vacant only to have some young guy sit there with absolutely rapt. You'd think he'd just won Tattslotto.

Other times if there is a 'flow forward' on that flight & a CSA has to use the 'force transfer' command (eg if pax on a normally non-changeable 'O' class red-e-deal fare) the system will override any theoretical seating protocols so bye bye WP shadow for the pax in 4D or 4F.

 

[JohnK]

Don't assume that 4BE has been a manual override as frequently pax have moved themselves out of a perfectly good seat such as 7C of 7F at an airport kiosk because they can get row 4 - yes even a middle seat.

Anyone can move into any middle seat without an override?

Hmmm. But that is what I have been saying. That has been my point all along.

 

[serfty]

Anyone can move into any middle seat without an override?

Hmmm. But that is what I have been saying. That has been my point all along.

That is not the case - any one with an eligible PCV can do so.

How do you think they got 7C or 6F in the first place?

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Anyone can move into any middle seat without an override?

Hmmm. But that is what I have been saying. That has been my point all along.

No, not anyone - only someone who would be able to access that seat in row 4 due to their tier status.

 

[JohnK]

That is not the case - any one with an eligible PCV can do so.

How do you think they got 7C or 6F in the first place?

Gold can get into row 4 at anytime from T-80 hours on. I think Silver can as well. You calll that eligible PCV? A soft block for a Platinum should stick and not be able to be broken by someone of lesser status.

We are not likely to agree on this one and I would like to see proof of your theory at the airport before I accept it.

 

[OATEK]

Gold can get into row 4 at anytime from T-80 hours on. I think Silver can as well. You calll that eligible PCV? A soft block for a Platinum should stick and not be able to be broken by someone of lesser status.

We are not likely to agree on this one and I would like to see proof of your theory at the airport before I accept it.

I am silver and cant remember getting further forward than 10.

 

[serfty]

Gold can get into row 4 at anytime from T-80 hours on. I think Silver can as well. You calll that eligible PCV? A soft block for a Platinum should stick and not be able to be broken by someone of lesser status.

We are not likely to agree on this one and I would like to see proof of your theory at the airport before I accept it.

not about soft blocks or shadows.

It's "theoretical seating"

 

[JohnK]

Based on your observations I assume you choose rows 5 to 8 instead of 4 on the 738?

No way. I would rather sit in row 4 aisle and take my chances with someone sitting next to me.

 

[im.daniel]

Don't know if this has been brought up before; but I found it interesting that when booking an award seat for a friend of mine using my points; he had the same seat selection that any SG member would have. At T-80, I was able to select seat 4C for him (who isn't even an QFF member). But anyway, serfty's post (#14 of this thread) seems to have correlated with my experience over the last few years - on a peak-hour flight (eg. QF975 on a Friday afternoon); the loads are particularly high (90-100% in Y), but I've have noticed that rows 4-6B/C tend to be the last ones filled on numerous occasions (which I guess is an example of 'soft' blocking in practice).

Recently, I was traveling with a friend of mine (PS + different booking), I chose seat 4A at T-80. At check-in, I asked the agent whether 4B was free for him (shown as blocked on expertflyer) and the check-in agent said no, it wasn't available. Low and behold, when the doors of the plane closed, 4B was free ... yes, the check-in agent could've released 4B for my mate, but opted not to. Now I don't know whether that was because he didn't feel like it or because there was someone of a high tier in 4C, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[JohnK]

And in my experience the past 6 years commuting SYD-BNE I have lost count of the number of times 4B and/or 4E have been occupied with not a soul in a middle seat in the next 3-4 rows.

I have also been in row 8 aisle with another platinum in window and we appeared to have the only spare seat on the flight between us.

Call it soft block. Call it shadow. There are way too many variables to rely on anything consistent.

Had 100 on tonights flight. Many empty rows. The guy in 5C had 2 shadows when he moved to 5B. Such is life.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Don't know if this has been brought up before; but I found it interesting that when booking an award seat for a friend of mine using my points; he had the same seat selection that any SG member would have. At T-80, I was able to select seat 4C for him (who isn't even an QFF member).

But anyway, serfty's post (#14 of this thread) seems to have correlated with my experience over the last few years - on a peak-hour flight (eg. QF975 on a Friday afternoon); the loads are particularly high (90-100% in Y), but I've have noticed that rows 4-6B/C tend to be the last ones filled on numerous occasions (which I guess is an example of 'soft' blocking in practice).

Recently, I was traveling with a friend of mine (PS + different booking), I chose seat 4A at T-80. At check-in, I asked the agent whether 4B was free for him (shown as blocked on expertflyer) and the check-in agent said no, it wasn't available. Low and behold, when the doors of the plane closed, 4B was free ... yes, the check-in agent could've released 4B for my mate, but opted not to. Now I don't know whether that was because he didn't feel like it or because there was someone of a high tier in 4C, but interesting nonetheless.

It's possible that the CSA's signon code may not have given him the authority to override the theoretical seating feature so he would not have been able to allocate 4B to your friend.

Once bookings are linked however, the person with the lesser status (eg NB) would have access to the same seats as that of the higher ranked (eg WP) pax so you would be able to allocated seat together for any furture flights in those same (linked) pnrs either via MMB portal, OLCI etc without a CSA needing to intervene.

 

[im.daniel]

It's possible that the CSA's signon code may not have given him the authority to override the theoretical seating feature so he would not have been able to allocate 4B to your friend.

Makes sense.

Once bookings are linked however, the person with the lesser status (eg NB) would have access to the same seats as that of the higher ranked (eg WP) pax so you would be able to allocated seat together for any furture flights in those same (linked) pnrs either via MMB portal, OLCI etc without a CSA needing to intervene

This holds true if you call up QF to manually select the seats; but not through the MMB/OLCI portal even after linking the two bookings together (at least in my experience anyway)

 

[ozbeachbabe]

This holds true if you call up QF to manually select the seats; but not through the MMB/OLCI portal even after linking the two bookings together (at least in my experience anyway)

There may be a difference between what you can do seating wise with linking the Amadeus pnrs in reservations initially vs what once the pnrs are link in Altea checkin.

I've observed people checking in at airport kiosks who have separate pnrs but because they flew over on the same flight & checked in together (which links them automatically) both names automatically display on the screen just as they would if they were booked in the same pnr so they don't need to select the 'add travelling companion'.

AFAIK MMB or OLCI would be the same once both pax had been linked in Altea (as opposed to having a TCP in the pnrs).

 

[legroom]

..... This holds true if you call up QF to manually select the seats; but not through the MMB/OLCI portal even after linking the two bookings together (at least in my experience anyway)

Same experience here with linked booking

All changes have to be called up for the low-status pax.