Straw man? No bringing in Virgin Blue lounge access just balances the argument and all the arguments beacuse so many have stated they will go to that program as a result of the Qantas change. Also the other arguments I have used are looking at the BIGGER picture, something that you in partciular for some reason cannot see.
This thread is about anytime lounge Access from Qantas and how it erodes loyalty to Qantas. DJ lounge access is irrelevant, the removal of the qantas' benefits erodes the loyalty not the existence of DJ benefits. I can see the bigger picture, it's just not want I have talking about in this thread.
As for me reading up on Virgin Blue lounge access, have done that, and their published policy seems to be a bit different to what your saying. The link is below and their access statement quoted below.
Virgin Blue > Entry & Access
And yet arrival happens as others have already informed you and IIRC has been confirmed by a Virgin rep on AFF. We are also talking about Gold status with Velocity not The Lounge membership.
Hmmm, you say I am biased.
No I implied your assessment was biased, what else does one call selectively picking the points that are strengths for one option in a comparison.
International lounge access, again DJ's own website says access is NOT available, even when travelling on their own owned airlines.
People in this thread have suggested moving business and attain status with Velocity. International lounge access is available, in exactly the same as as it is on Qantas for those who fly enough to attain status.
As for expresso coffee, last time I looked there were expresso machines in the larger Qantas lounges operated by a real person. So that would be a QF+1, DJ+1 but again not really much use if you don't like expresso coffee.
Which Qantas lounges because I have never seen this in action in any Qantas lounge. Well, I did see a person pushing the button on the standard coffee machine in BNE - the "barista" service. In any case, The Lounge has expresso machines in
all lounges available for all customers of the The Lounge. Rather than applying a different standard lets apply the same standard you use for the number lounges. Simply put Virgin Blue is superior on this point.
That is the pot calling kettle if ever I saw it.
You labelled my post (and others) as extremely selfish and that has nothing to do with your other point, you haven't been able to acknowledge the basis for my assessment about my relationship with Qantas, you continue to deny my right as a customer to respond to Qantas' changes to their program. You have totally failed to justify you statements that I am selfish and need to "grow up" and that I'm packing up my bat. Compared to that I have outlined my reasons for saying that you are not listening and that the comparison was biased.
That is not exactly what I said. I said that alliance airlines have mutual access agreements which would balance out. In a later post I did mention about airlines and organisations such as Priority Pass paying (other) airlines for access, this does indeed happen.
Um, reality check here - You didn't actually say anything about this. You asked a question and this was the answer given. The fact remains that Qantas provides access to qantas facilities to Qantas FF when the fly with a competitor. There is no use of mutual access agreements in such cases - it is all in house with Qantas.
I know what your talking about, just don't agree, there is a very big difference. Yet you feel the need to continualy INSULT me by saying I don't understand. Gee, refer to above re: pot calling kettle black. Come in.... As for this debate it has nothing what so ever to do with Qantas Jetstaring their routes. You were talking about straw man above, if every I read a straw man statement this would be one of them. It seems to me that your problem is with Qantas as a whole, but are using this simple change to launch into attack mode.
The Jetstarising of Qantas routes that is an
example of why anytime access should exist and why its removal erodes loyalty for some customers. That you say it isn't relevant to the thread is a clear indication that you just do not get
my point. Remember it is my point, you reply sounds like you don't get it, simple statement of fact. Well I guess the other possibility is that you're deliberately being obtuse and are trying to twist my point into something else. :shock: But I prefer not to believe that you would do that.
To me it seems that what Qantas is doing is changing their program to be more in line with what other airlines operate, including Virgin Blue. Nothing unreasonable about that and all very open.
Yet it is extremely selfish for me to respond to those changes. In any case, I would prefer to see Qantas trying to be better than other airlines. Seems you're content for them to be the same.
As for you changing your travel patterns, that is clearly a personal decision, though clearly you don't value the other benifits of the Qantas frequent flyer scheme if your willing to change half your flights just because you don't get anytime lounge access. Classic pack up the bat and run syndrome.
You say you read this thread but clearly you haven't, never said I don't value the other benefits. I have consistently stated that I don't see the value of platinum over gold and I have outlined a number of times my reasoning for making my
personal decision. Yet, again, I'm selfish. :evil: You totally ignore the fact that I'm not packing up the bat at all. It is Qantas' bat, they have made the choice how can I pack it up. In fact it is more a case that Qantas is packing up their bat because they are not happy that customers who have spent the money and qualified as Platinum are actually using the benefits that Qantas advertised. But in any case I plan to be double gold, no I'm not packing up anything.
No I did not miss that, indeed look at my very first post on the issue where I clearly stated that I thought it a bit rich to call the end of anytime an enhancement but as a whole the changes they announced were an overall enhancement for many. Since then the discussion as a WHOLE has turned into a whinge fest over the removal of anytime access. I try to offer some balance and get caned as a result of daring to be actually sensible about it all.
You are not getting caned for offering balance, you are getting caned for continually calling people selfish. As others have already pointed out this thread has been about how this change will impact on loyalty to Qantas:
Take a read through the ~800 posts you apparently missed.
It's about the use of the word "enhancement" to describe the removal of benefits.
It's about inconsistancy in 'QF Spin' (being told one thing and QF doing another).
It's about removing benefits while increasing costs (yes - ticket prices have gone up).
It's about removal of anytime access under the guise of 'crowded lounges'.
As for your cost comparison you fail, like others to factor into your costs the other benefits of the program as a whole and are concentrating just on anytime access removal, which as I have said all along is not too unreasonable. Indeed how many other airlines offer anytime lounge access to THEIR customers? Cannot think of any to be honest.
My cost comparison was about the value to Qantas not to me, the other benefits don't even come into it. When using anytime access I don't use other Qantas benefits. Simple question would Qantas like me to buy 90% of my flights or 50% of my flights from them. They seem happy to lose 40% to save the cost of 10 muffins and 10 coffees. I have never said taking the benefit away is unreasonable, yet you seem to think that it is unreasonable for me to respond to those changes.
In my
personal case for the flights that I will switch, Qantas provides
no additional benefits over Virgin Blue beside anytime lounge access. Hence removing that access causes me to spend money with their competition. I have written this a number of times now, in a number of ways. I have outlined exactly how I have considered the various benefits. Am I to take you claim that I failed to consider the cost of those other benefits as a sign that you don't understand the outline I provided of my personal circumstances or that you don't agree? If the later that could be really good as you seem to understand enough about my circumstances, without knowing me, to be able to disagree with my own assessments. Can I turn to you for advice in all areas of my life?
In the bigger context of QF's "program of enhancements", or continued long-term devaluing of benefits..... Well, there are hundreds of posts in this thread on that topic, including several from myself.
So you're not wrong in your argument. But the flavour of this thread isn't "should anytime access exist?", rather it is about the "removal of existing benefits" and the consequent issues of continual erosion, replacement benefits, differential between SG and WP and ultimately whether or not this will affect people's future loyalty as they weigh up whether they feel WP is worth retaining/attaining.
It's not selfish, it's entirely relevant.
Just as you see baggage changes as a genuine improvement, I see them as being an erosion from the previous piece system that was around until fairly recently.
I maintain that loyalty programs are there to reward loyalty and encourage additional future spend.
If you erode the benefits - you risk eroding the future loyalty of customers.
I like this post, the most sensible I have seen in this thread. In particular your comment about the risk of eroding loyalty. My opinion of course is that Qantas are not stupid and know full well what those risks are and consider them to be minor. After all the other benefits and improvements that they have made more than easily make up for this one 'erosion' of benefit.
Well if you like this post I can only hope that you will finally understand what we have been discussing here.
As for improvements, name one improvement announced with the removal of anytime access besides an additional 3 kg of luggage for platinum FF.
PS As for the selfish comments that seem to have got the goat of many, I suggest people complaining about that actually go and re-read again.
I have read you posts a number of times. Regardless of any valid points you have made, you labelled people as selfish, and you continue to call me selfish, because I have been involved in a discussion that is about so much more that the basic philosophical level point, that no one has denied, that you made after 774 posts in the thread.
