Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[medhead]

For once I agree .... childish, sulky and petulant would have been the terms I would use.

BTW ajw373 - have you ever tried to argue the case with someone from the flat earth society, or the 'Apollo moon landings were fake' brigade, or any religious fundamentalist for that matter? Then you should realise that you may as well try to reason with a screaming toddler - they just want their dummy back and that's that.

One day they will all move on but it won't be any day soon.

(I should disclose that I am not of Platinum status and never will be so my reasoning is based on selfish motives. Just like everyone elses.)

So you are offering an opinion about something you have never experienced. Thanks for that. I'm not sure what it can add to the discussion. But nice to know.

Now tell me exactly how is it childish, sulky and petulant to discuss how this change will influence my future flying patterns? How is it any of those things to be puzzled by changes that will act to decrease the loyalty of some platinum flyers? You want to throw around insults but you don't seem able to explain you reasons for insulting people.

As for arguing the case with a toddler, I have yet to see you do anything more than insult people. If you had actually argued a case then you analogy might be meaningful.

If you have nothing constructive to add why don't you just pull your head in, especially as it doesn't affect you in any way.

To put it another way, why don't you move on. You called us petulant once already no need to come back for a second round.

 

[Martin J Cowling]

For once I agree .... childish, sulky and petulant would have been the terms I would use.

BTW ajw373 - have you ever tried to argue the case with someone from the flat earth society, or the 'Apollo moon landings were fake' brigade, or any religious fundamentalist for that matter? Then you should realise that you may as well try to reason with a screaming toddler - they just want their dummy back and that's that.

One day they will all move on but it won't be any day soon.

(I should disclose that I am not of Platinum status and never will be so my reasoning is based on selfish motives. Just like everyone elses.)

interesting how the platinums are upset about the change and the non-Platinums think the Platinums are spoilt brats!

My beef is not the change itself but that it was disguised as an enhancement!

 

[ajw373]

For once I agree .... childish, sulky and petulant would have been the terms I would use.

BTW ajw373 - have you ever tried to argue the case with someone from the flat earth society, or the 'Apollo moon landings were fake' brigade, or any religious fundamentalist for that matter? Then you should realise that you may as well try to reason with a screaming toddler - they just want their dummy back and that's that.

One day they will all move on but it won't be any day soon.

(I should disclose that I am not of Platinum status and never will be so my reasoning is based on selfish motives. Just like everyone elses.)

Ahhh good point might try that sometime. Oh I am Platinum, have been for some years and about 500 points short of life time gold. My thoughts are just common sense based on the reality of the business world.

 

[Alanslegal]

My beef is not the change itself but that it was disguised as an enhancement!

Totally agree, and much enjoyed your blog.

 

[serfty]

interesting how the platinums are upset about the change and the non-Platinums think the Platinums are spoilt brats!

My beef is not the change itself but that it was disguised as an enhancement!

I'm a WP and am not seriously upset about the change; as I previously posted:

...
[It was] Certainly a nice bonus, however, it is not unreasonable for them to make a commercial decision and take it away.

I don't like it much, (I have used anytime access one or thrice over the years) , but there it is. ...

All in all I don't like the removal of any time access; however since I rarely used it, for me it's not a big deal. The only issue was the arrivals access and this was sorted. ...

 

[medhead]

Ahhh good point might try that sometime. Oh I am Platinum, have been for some years and about 500 points short of life time gold. My thoughts are just common sense based on the reality of the business world.

Yet for me it is common sense that that when a business reduces the benefits of loyalty while calling it an enhancement, that the some customers will respond by reducing their loyalty to the business.

It is also common sense that when a business cites an issue for removing a benefit, like overcrowding, then provides incentives to make that issue worse it is displaying a total disregard for the intelligence of its customers and risks pushing those customers away.

It is further common sense that customers affected by these points above may recognise the right of the business to make changes but are also allowed to discuss how those changes will affect the customer and their continued loyalty to the business.

Want is not common sense is to call those people childish and selfish. it is not common sense for other customers to blindly sit still when a business makes changes like this, despite your desire to blindly accept.

I have not seen anyone deny the right of qantas to make the change but I do see you and smackbum denying my right to respond and react to those changes. I see you throwing around insults but I'm yet to see and attempt to justify those insults. The question stands and you have yet to answer it.

 

[straitman]

For once I agree .... childish, sulky and petulant would have been the terms I would use.

BTW ajw373 - have you ever tried to argue the case with someone from the flat earth society, or the 'Apollo moon landings were fake' brigade, or any religious fundamentalist for that matter? Then you should realise that you may as well try to reason with a screaming toddler - they just want their dummy back and that's that.

One day they will all move on but it won't be any day soon.

(I should disclose that I am not of Platinum status and never will be so my reasoning is based on selfish motives. Just like everyone elses.)

You have to realise that all these discussions are a two way street. People on both sides of the 'discussion' (and I use the term lightly) have expressed opinions and not given consideration to the alternate view. I won't name names because those in question will either understand or simply continue in ignorance.

Maybe it is time to get back to being a little closer to the topic at hand rather than taking shots at people for having an alternate opinion.

 

[medhead]

Maybe it is time to get back to being a little closer to the topic at hand rather than taking shots at people for having an alternate opinion.

Excellent advice. I would mention that it is extremely difficult to understand an alternative opinion when all it consists of is those other people are being childish, sulky and petulant, without any further reasoning or explanation.

I have never disagreed with the idea that QF can run their business how they see fit. But it is also common sense that I, as a customer, will review and change my purchasing of qantas' services in response to those changes. I still fail to see any explanation of exactly how that is childish or selfish.

As a 98% self funded traveller any time access was enough reason for me to look to spend as much as possible with Qantas, even if I had to spend upto 25% more, because I knew that they valued my loyalty. For my flying based on the service and product (without going into full details I'll just say beetroot chips) Qantas provide I cannot justify spending 100% more than what can be purchased from the competition. After one domestic Jetstar experience, I cannot justify spending the same on jetstar as on DJ, when QF Jetstarise a route. The removal of any time access means that for my flying habits I am much better off having Gold with 2 airlines instead of Platinum with one, as at a minimum QF is no longer prepared to provide for my total flying requirements. The irony has alraedy been mentioned that in trying to not give DJ a free kick, QF are actually sending a lot of business towards DJ. (BTW, forward projections suggest that I'll maintain platinum and gold this year.)

On top of that I can also see an apparent hypocrisy in the way that Qantas has communicated the changes and the apparently contradictory incentives that QF have subsequently provided.

That is a summary of the rational reassessment of my position and my best response to the (legitimate) changes that Qantas has made to their program. I have provided much more detail about the basis of my response throughout the thread.

In contrast, I have been called selfish, childish, sulky and petulant, without any explanation of the basis for that alternative opinion. If people what to throw around insults without providing a reason then IMO it would be best for them to follow their own advice and move on.

 

[ajw373]

I have not seen anyone deny the right of qantas to make the change but I do see you and smackbum denying my right to respond and react to those changes. I see you throwing around insults but I'm yet to see and attempt to justify those insults. The question stands and you have yet to answer it.

Your clearly didn't actually read what I said, refer to post #775. At no point was it an insult to anyone in particular, unless of course the cap fits. All I said as can be seen below was that most (all) of the replies were selfish and about ME ME ME ME. I stand by that.

All extremely selfish replies...

As for my first post, well it was below. Since then I have been the one that has been shouted down and insulted. It seems as if one were to disagree with the all mighty powerful who are so important to Qantas that you cannot have your say here.

I am flabbergasted at how much this has got peoples backs up. Whilst sure it is not an improvement it, on the surface does seem more than reasonable.

And oh no one has actually answered my question about what other business allows customers of their competitors to use the facilities for free just because that customer has been loyal in the past? Yes I know someone said other airlines in alliances, but that is not even close to being the same as in this case the airlines are in mutual/commercial agreement about said access to facilities.

Again I will say I do not see why it is not unreasonable to expect a customer to be flying with Qantas on that day to use their facilities.

 

[samiam]

Just made WP and so probably will not 'miss' an enhancement that I haven't availed myself of.

I take the point that it is a reduction in a benefit for those who have had it as a benefit previously.

To answer one of the above questions, I have Priority Pass through Amex and so, correct me if I'm wrong, but I could access 'The Lounge' with a 'valid ticket' - ' no matter which airline I am travelling' (think QF or JQ) - hence entering a competitors lounge?

 

[nlagalle]

To answer one of the above questions, I have Priority Pass through Amex and so, correct me if I'm wrong, but I could access 'The Lounge' with a 'valid ticket' - ' no matter which airline I am travelling' (think QF or JQ) - hence entering a competitors lounge?

That is correct. you do not need to be travelling on DJ to access the lounge.

 

[medhead]

Your clearly didn't actually read what I said, refer to post #775. At no point was it an insult to anyone in particular, unless of course the cap fits. All I said as can be seen below was that most (all) of the replies were selfish and about ME ME ME ME. I stand by that.

And one of my posts was one of those "extremely selfish replies", which you then expanded to be childish and selfish. You clearly state that all replies were extremely selfish, I don't know what world you live in but that is a direct insult and you have now continued it, "(all)" replies were selfish. You claim that Qantas has a right to set there own terms and conditions (naturally) but you then claim that any customer that reassesses their relationship with qantas as a result is selfish. Sorry but we left feudalism a long time ago.

As for my first post, well it was below. Since then I have been the one that has been shouted down and insulted. It seems as if one were to disagree with the all mighty powerful who are so important to Qantas that you cannot have your say here.

No one has disagreed with you basic point, but I do strongly object to being called selfish because I wish to exercise my rights as a customer. I've invested a lot of my money to gain certain advertised benefits. Now that those benefits are being taken away you've decided that I'm selfish for reassessing how I spend my money.

And oh no one has actually answered my question about what other business allows customers of their competitors to use the facilities for free just because that customer has been loyal in the past? Yes I know someone said other airlines in alliances, but that is not even close to being the same as in this case the airlines are in mutual/commercial agreement about said access to facilities.

Again I will say I do not see why it is not unreasonable to expect a customer to be flying with Qantas on that day to use their facilities.

Someone has answered your question:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....lounge-access-ceases-25773-78.html#post389360
Airline alliances are a totally valid example as the airline do compete on certain routes and they are legally prevented from colluding. If I buy a ticket to fly SYD-HKG with Cathy, Qantas will continue to let me into their lounge. Yet Qantas also have a flight in competition with Cathy on the same route. Direct competition. Why should qantas give a free kick to Cathy based on my past flying?

In any case, I still say your question is invalid. Qantas provided a benefit for flying heaps with Qantas. Anytime access was gained because of someone flying on Qantas, not with the competitor. This was not a benefit because of past travel it was a benefit that encourage future travel and that is the point of a loyalty program and that was why anytime access was a good benefit to provide.

 

[ajw373]

And one of my posts was one of those "extremely selfish replies", which you then expanded to be childish and selfish. You clearly state that all replies were extremely selfish, I don't know what world you live in but that is a direct insult and you have now continued it, "(all)" replies were selfish. You claim that Qantas has a right to set there own terms and conditions (naturally) but you then claim that any customer that reassesses their relationship with qantas as a result is selfish. Sorry but we left feudalism a long time ago.

Grow up.:!:

Someone has answered your question:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....lounge-access-ceases-25773-78.html#post389360
Airline alliances are a totally valid example as the airline do compete on certain routes and they are legally prevented from colluding. If I buy a ticket to fly SYD-HKG with Cathy, Qantas will continue to let me into their lounge. Yet Qantas also have a flight in competition with Cathy on the same route. Direct competition. Why should qantas give a free kick to Cathy based on my past flying?

In any case, I still say your question is invalid. Qantas provided a benefit for flying heaps with Qantas. Anytime access was gained because of someone flying on Qantas, not with the competitor. This was not a benefit because of past travel it was a benefit that encourage future travel and that is the point of a loyalty program and that was why anytime access was a good benefit to provide.

No that is not valid because it is MUTUAL, a Virgin Blue customer using a Qantas lounge is not. As for reward for past travel fair enough in one way, but on the other hand why is it not unreasonable to expect you to continue flying Qantas to receive the benifits?

 

[nlagalle]

Grow up.:!:



No that is not valid because it is MUTUAL, a Virgin Blue customer using a Qantas lounge is not. As for reward for past travel fair enough in one way, but on the other hand why is it not unreasonable to expect you to continue flying Qantas to receive the benifits?

You still need to fly a lot of QF flights to retain Platinum status. It doesn't just stay there.

The point people are making is that anytime access was a tangible benefit above Gold FF status. So should someone decide they will drop to Gold FF and then direct their spend to DJ to attain Gold is fair enough too.

I'll give you another bonus of Anytime access. I would have used it when family or friends flew somewhere - I could guest them into the QP before their QF flight. A bit of a treat for them. Can't do that now, unless of course they don't bother checking when you flash your card. I did this exact thing last week when taking my ex and my daughter to the airport for their flight (On QF).

 

[YQY]

All in all I don't like the removal of any time access; however since I rarely used it, for me it's not a big deal. The only issue was the arrivals access and this was sorted.

This sums up my views on anytime access - i rarely if ever use anytime access. i do use on arrival access when my ride is running late or if i'm waiting for colleagues and I'm happy QF allowed access to lounges when flying VF.

There are a number of "undocumented perks" (see below) that QF provide me, these more than offset loss of the very seldom used previlidge.

- they have always allowed me to take two guests into the F Lounge (wife and daughter)
- number of op-ups per year

I hope this change reduces the amount of crowding in the domestic J Lounges.

 

[ajw373]

You still need to fly a lot of QF flights to retain Platinum status. It doesn't just stay there.

The point people are making is that anytime access was a tangible benefit above Gold FF status. So should someone decide they will drop to Gold FF and then direct their spend to DJ to attain Gold is fair enough too.

I'll give you another bonus of Anytime access. I would have used it when family or friends flew somewhere - I could guest them into the QP before their QF flight. A bit of a treat for them. Can't do that now, unless of course they don't bother checking when you flash your card. I did this exact thing last week when taking my ex and my daughter to the airport for their flight (On QF).

Have done the same myself, and yes true to remain platinum you do need to continue flying Qantas (or its partners) a fair bit, so maybe the whole debate is moot as the change in the grand scheme of things is very minor. To me the other changes, in particular the increased baggage allowances are fair more valuable.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I'll give you another bonus of Anytime access. I would have used it when family or friends flew somewhere - I could guest them into the QP before their QF flight. A bit of a treat for them. Can't do that now, unless of course they don't bother checking when you flash your card. I did this exact thing last week when taking my ex and my daughter to the airport for their flight (On QF).

The big argument here is that QF stated a "benefit" (in the original e-mail), yet took something away. How does that work????

The one major benefit of WP above SG was anytime access. The lines are merging more and more now between the two. Unless QF bring out a uber WP, l personally think that SG is good enough or trying to achieve Emerald on another OW Airlines might be better. Never had an op-up or use the QP's without flying, so that does me in. But, l do like the fact that l can use the lounges as an arrivals lounge, which suits me fine. WP really needs that 'wow' factor once again, as Dajop mentioned in one of the threads earlier this year.


(OT; I think that QF and AA were the only airlines in OW that offered anytime access to their lounges for Emeralds. However, AA had other benefits that QF doesn't, like confirmation of upgrade requests at time of booking and x-number of SWU's per year.)

 

[Oneworldplus2]

To me the other changes, in particular the increased baggage allowances are fair more valuable.

Once in my life l have used the extra baggage (or gone over the limit by ~3kg). I usually try to travel as light as possible, so to me it really isn't a benefit.

15kg (personally) is more than enough and l think that QF has to stats to back them up in offering something (more baggage) that a minority of customer might use "occasionally'.

I guess my opinion and the previous one's about anytime access clearly point out that everyone uses the benefits differently to suit their own needs.

Sorry if my post is a little bit jaded, but these Montheith's Crushed Apple Ciders are going down like water

 

[ajw373]

The big argument here is that QF stated a "benefit" (in the original e-mail), yet took something away. How does that work????

Agree 100% that it is not a benifit, refer to my orginal post. Though in fairness to Qantas it was one change out of a whole raft of changes which generally speaking are of greater benifit to more people. Also the simple fact remains that T&C's and benifits can and do change, and with every change there are some winners and loosers. I am surprised there are now over 800 posts that are mostly people bellyaching over it.

 

[awilcockson]

I did this exact thing last week when taking my ex and my daughter to the airport for their flight (On QF).

I did this last Sunday while my wife waited for her flight from Sydney to OOL. I'm sure that the 10s of thousands of dollars that I've spent maintaining WP would more than cover the two lemon lime and bitters and the couple of slices of pizza that we consumed whilst sitting in the lounge.

Anytime access was something that made WP feel a bit special. These "enhancements" are definitely taking the gloss of the special-ness. Call me petulant or whiny if you like, but there is no doubt that this change will, in my case at least, result in a far greater loss of revenue to Qantas than if they had left the anytime access in place.