Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[nlagalle]

(Inappropriate sentence deleted.) But will point out something very important in relation to the above post. You say that transferring of routes to Jetstar is one reason why Qantas should retain anytime access. May I ask why? The reason I ask is under the Qantas Club T&C's when flying on Jetstar, Qantas Club members, Qantas Gold and Qantas Platinum all get lounge access anyway. This access is not granted under anytime rules, so the removal of anytime will make no difference what so ever in this example.

One reason is it can be better to fly DJ than JQ. you only earn SC's and points on JetFlex fares which are the equivilant of full Y tickets on QF. On DJ you'll earn points and SC's even on the cheapest fare. However if QF were still flying that route, you'd earn them too.

It's actually made me think about flying DJ more on routes like that.

 

[awilcockson]

Inappropriate sentence deleted

This was the last place I expect to see this sort of rubbish. You claim innocence, and yet continue to ignore the actual topic of discussion and instead resort to childish insults. I don't see anyone whining or dummy spitting, I see people with reasonable complaints giving feedback on their thoughts on the "enhancements" and the potential impact on their future travel with Qantas. If, as you have said, this change doesn't concern you, why on earth are you wasting your time in this thread trying to defend the changes? Move on man, it's beginning to look like a vested interest.

 

[Reggie]

Firstly, the only flyers who have loyalty to QF are self-funded in some way where they make the decision on how cash is spent on travel. Let's face it - if you're flying enough to maintain top tier status you're not short a buck. Generally this means you have more time to investigate how you can extract the most value from your dollar, and this includes maximizing perceived benefits like anytime access and extra points.

The other type of flyer does what their company tells them they have to do. These flyers 'loyalty' extends as far as what corporate agreement their company can line up with the carrier. Often price and schedule based flying where value is often not the reason behind the purchase.

I know this post goes back, but there is another type of flyer;

Those who fly on the company expense, but decide how and where they spend it. We have no corporate agreement, and I am free to fly whomever I feel like. As such I have flown SQ, NZ when I could have actually flown QF. I have also flown DJ and JQ when QF have not flown to or at the times when I wanted to fly, but this is the only times I have given business to DJ and JQ. I have easily achieved WP and PG for the past 7 years, and still been able to direct business elsewhere.

So being LTG with some 24000 SC's, I have to make the decison on whether to go
for WP or even SG, or send my business elsewhere. Whats stopping me at present is the lack of J on DJ, but the Y+ is interesting.

Will the loss of anytime access change my flying habits by flying others - YES, will it stop me flying with QF - NO

 

[ajw373]

This was the last place I expect to see this sort of rubbish. You claim innocence, and yet continue to ignore the actual topic of discussion and instead resort to childish insults. I don't see anyone whining or dummy spitting, I see people with reasonable complaints giving feedback on their thoughts on the "enhancements" and the potential impact on their future travel with Qantas. If, as you have said, this change doesn't concern you, why on earth are you wasting your time in this thread trying to defend the changes? Move on man, it's beginning to look like a vested interest.

Actually my conversation has by large been right on topic thank you very much. At no point have I ever said it doesn't effect me, it does, however I have come into the conversation to try and add some balance to the negative posts that seem to have dominated this thread. Yet I get attacked by other members for daring to offer a different perspective. Odd this is a discussion board I believe not a whine fest, which is what this thread is turning into.

 

[medhead]

(Inappropriate sentence deleted) But will point out something very important in relation to the above post. You say that transferring of routes to Jetstar is one reason why Qantas should retain anytime access. May I ask why?

as you agreed jetstar is no substitute for qantas. Despite being owned by qantas Jetstar is certainly not qantas, especially when qantas will totally disown jetstar at will and in relation to jetstar and the FF program. So jetstarised routes are examples of routes that qantas doesn't service. Hence they represent routes where anytime access recognised the loyalty of platinum FF when they couldn't fly with qantas.

PS As for twisting posts, again pot calling kettle black. So think we might take 1 point each on that account.

actually no! You've just made a false claim without any justification that equals Zero for you. (and) I'm not going to try to claim any points for me because I not about points scoring.

As for what other improvements, well lets see. Domestic business class lounges was a MASSIVE improvement and IMO easily well worth trading anytime access. Clearly baggage allowance changes are a positive, though I guess you could argue that is part of a wider change rather than a program change.

You might see being allowed to lug around 2x 32kg as a benefit. I don't. The baggage changes are neutral at best. There significant restrictions on the piece allowance, especially for those flying in premium cabins. Even if platinums can take more luggage I find it a negative to be stuck with 2 bags of higher weight if travelling around Europe.

Domestic business lounges have been around for a little while now, hard to see how they can be considered a recent improvement.

Yet I get attacked by other members for daring to offer a different perspective.

As I have already mentioned that is not due to your perspective but because you have repeatedly called other members selfish and childish.

 

[ajw373]

as you agreed jetstar is no substitute for qantas. Despite being owned by qantas Jetstar is certainly not qantas, especially when qantas will totally disown jetstar at will and in relation to jetstar and the FF program. So jetstarised routes are examples of routes that qantas doesn't service. Hence they represent routes where anytime access recognised the loyalty of platinum FF when they couldn't fly with qantas.

Yeah, never flown on Jetstar, never want to really, though their A320's in Qantas colours would be good. However still don't follow your logic on this. On routes where Jetstar have taken over from Qantas there is either a Qantas lounge that can STILL be used or no lounge at all. Anytime makes no difference what so ever in THIS case and points and status are a different issue. Predicting what may or may not happen in the future is well beyond the scope of this thread and as I said before shows you clearly have a much wider issue with Qantas that is better discussed elsewhere.

 

[medhead]

Yeah, never flown on Jetstar, never want to really, though their A320's in Qantas colours would be good. However still don't follow your logic on this. On routes where Jetstar have taken over from Qantas there is either a Qantas lounge that can STILL be used or no lounge at all. Anytime makes no difference what so ever in THIS case and points and status are a different issue. Predicting what may or may not happen in the future is well beyond the scope of this thread and as I said before shows you clearly have a much wider issue with Qantas that is better discussed elsewhere.

What is so difficult to understand? Qantas doesn't operate the route Jetstar = sub-standard, I choose better service and fly with virgin blue. Exactly how can I use these qantas lounges without anytime access? I can't. So if I need to fly any route that qantas choose not to service i can either sit out in the cold or I can give more business to virgin blue and use their lounge. Anytime access didn't require me to make that choice, it allowed me to remain blindly loyal to qantas.

As for discussing the future, a large chunk the discussion has kept one eye on the future. The future is a major concern - what next?

I have issue with qantas? No actually I am just aware of the cost of my loyalty. Qantas' approach to these changes has crossed my line, simple.

 

[ajw373]

actually no! You've just made a false claim without any justification that equals Zero for you. (and) I'm not going to try to claim any points for me because I not about points scoring.

I have made no false claims thank you very much and I do not appreciate being called a liar as this post is saying. Mods, some consistency please. As for scoring, you have missed the point, let me make it clearer. What you have accused me of is EXACTLY what you are doing yourself.

You might see being allowed to lug around 2x 32kg as a benefit. I don't. The baggage changes are neutral at best. There significant restrictions on the piece allowance, especially for those flying in premium cabins. Even if platinums can take more luggage I find it a negative to be stuck with 2 bags of higher weight if travelling around Europe.

Domestic business lounges have been around for a little while now, hard to see how they can be considered a recent improvement.

Your last few parra's are quite ironic. Ok for you a higher baggage allowance is not worth anything, fair enough. But this is not about JUST YOU, I for one consider this to be a positive benefit, same too with domestic business lounges, even if they have been around for a few years. Now before you have yet another cheap shot remember it was you that asked what the gains are, I answered and now your saying their not gains. I will say again for you maybe not, but as an overall PROGRAM improvement, I certainly think they are.

Again as for selfish comments, yet again the tone of your post above is exactly what I am referring to, it is all about me me me (you actually), and when ever anyone comes up with a benefit you deride them (me) and turn it into a mud slinging contest rather than sticking with the facts, something you have accused me of might I add.

As I have already mentioned that is not due to your perspective but because you have repeatedly called other members selfish and childish.

English translation please? Are you saying that because I said something a dozen posts ago you are now setting out to deliberately goad me? Sounds like it. Again mods, some consistency please.

 

[ajw373]

What is so difficult to understand? Qantas doesn't operate the route Jetstar = sub-standard, I choose better service and fly with virgin blue. Exactly how can I use these qantas lounges without anytime access? I can't. So if I need to fly any route that qantas choose not to service i can either sit out in the cold or I can give more business to virgin blue and use their lounge. Anytime access didn't require me to make that choice, it allowed me to remain blindly loyal to qantas.

As for discussing the future, a large chunk the discussion has kept one eye on the future. The future is a major concern - what next?

I have issue with qantas? No actually I am just aware of the cost of my loyalty. Qantas' approach to these changes has crossed my line, simple.

Which gets back to the original issue. If you choose to fly on a competitor then why should you be given lounge access. Frequent flyer programs ARE about rewarding past travel for sure, but they are also about getting people to continue to fly to continue to reap the benefits. As I said in my very original post in this thread I cannot see what is wrong with expecting someone to actually be flying with the airline to get the benefit. No other airline (that I know of) does it, so why do we expect Qantas to continue to do it?

As for the cost of your loyalty, seems to me that you are over valuing it.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

No other airline (that I know of) does it, so why do we expect Qantas to continue to do it?

5 minutes on Flyertalk and you quickly realise that passengers have very little loyalty with all the free comps, free miles and CC offers on the table with other airlines all around the world.

Qantas has enjoyed a high retention rate while other airlines have not. Perhaps there's other factors in play, but what if it's the little things like feeling valued and the perception of being welcome at qantas lounges, anytime. QF have taken the risk by taking the pretty red ball balls off an otherwise magnificent Christmas tree; but without them it look's cough.

I'd say Qantas can't afford not to keep benefits like anytime access. A quick cast of $numbers some members are throwing to competing airlines because of BS 'enhancements' like anytime access removal proves this.

 

[ajw373]

5 minutes on Flyertalk and you quickly realise that passengers have very little loyalty with all the free comps, free miles and CC offers on the table with other airlines all around the world.

Qantas has enjoyed a high retention rate while other airlines have not. Perhaps there's other factors in play, but what if it's the little things like feeling valued and the perception of being welcome at qantas lounges, anytime. QF have taken the risk by taking the pretty, very tiny red ball balls off the beautiful Christmas tree; but without them it look's cough.

I'd say Qantas can't afford not to keep benefits like anytime access. A quick cast of $numbers some members are throwing to competing airlines proves this.

I see your point, but don't think that this or other flyer forums are overly representative of the population as a whole. In particular how many people work towards getting to a 'status' level and with it benefits (perceived or otherwise) and then switch to another airline and start again? Most would get to the level and then continue to fly with that airline to continue to receive those benefits and I seriously doubt many of the population as a whole would be put off by removal of anytime. Actually I would doubt many would know it even existed because it is so totally counter intuitive.

(PS Thanks for the sensible reply, see sensible reply=sensible reply from me, take note medhead)

 

[medhead]

I have made no false claims thank you very much and I do not appreciate being called a liar as this post is saying. Mods, some consistency please. As for scoring, you have missed the point, let me make it clearer. What you have accused me of is EXACTLY what you are doing yourself.

Sorry what does "pot calling the kettle black" mean exactly? I have been explaining my position and how it is not selfish for me to protect my best interests as a customer, caveat emptor. I'm not sure how I can be twisting your words, when I'm writing about my opinion and my position.

Your last few parra's are quite ironic. Ok for you a higher baggage allowance is not worth anything, fair enough. But this is not about JUST YOU, I for one consider this to be a positive benefit, same too with domestic business lounges, even if they have been around for a few years. Now before you have yet another cheap shot remember it was you that asked what the gains are, I answered and now your saying their not gains. I will say again for you maybe not, but as an overall PROGRAM improvement, I certainly think they are.

Again as for selfish comments, yet again the tone of your post above is exactly what I am referring to, it is all about me me me (you actually), and when ever anyone comes up with a benefit you deride them (me) and turn it into a mud slinging contest rather than sticking with the facts, something you have accused me of might I add.

Actually it is about me. It is entirely about my opinion of the removal of anytime access and how that affects me. In fact lots of people have also written here about their opinion. You call that selfish and you have just done so again. How do you expect people to react when you keep calling then selfish and childish?

On the j lounge, I asked about benefits from the most recent changes. The fact remains that the J lounge is not a new benefit.

It is nice for you that you value luggage allowance. However, the fact remains that is not a useful benefit for me. The fact that I have different needs to you does not make me selfish. The fact that a number of people here saw more value in anytime access than you does not make their posts whiny.

English translation please? Are you saying that because I said something a dozen posts ago you are now setting out to deliberately goad me? Sounds like it. Again mods, some consistency please.

a dozen posts ago and something that you have continued to say a number of times even in this post. No goading involved, I'm just asking you to justify calling me selfish a number of times and realise that my needs are different to yours.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I see your point, but don't think that this or other flyer forums are overly representative of the population as a whole.

I see folks here as an extreme example of the flying population. As in - we are the most vocal, friends&family come to us for advice (even if it's to find out how to get an upgrade). If anything, I would say that if an airline can please people like us - pleasing the rest of the frequent flyers is a walk in the park. If they can piss us off.... chances are others will be annoyed, yet feel powerless to do anything except silently change their spending habits.

In this sense, frequent flyers like us act as a barometer for airlines. If anything - our thoughts and input should be treated like golden eggs.

In particular how many people work towards getting to a 'status' level and with it benefits (perceived or otherwise) and then switch to another airline and start again?

You mean, how many people willingly pay more money to fly when there's no real need to do so? Sounds like the perfect customer to me........

And since the perfect customer is always right.........

ajw373, I'm simply failing to see how removal of anytime access in any way benefits Qantas or it's shareholders in any way at all over the next 12 months that isn't massively eroded by the negative side effects. Couple that with the flat out lies we've been fed by QF Rep (Red-Roo) and you have the perfect coughtail of dishonesty & deceit in which top-tier frequent flyers simply switch alliances. Can't argue with facts.

 

[medhead]

Which gets back to the original issue. If you choose to fly on a competitor then why should you be given lounge access. Frequent flyer programs ARE about rewarding past travel for sure, but they are also about getting people to continue to fly to continue to reap the benefits. As I said in my very original post in this thread I cannot see what is wrong with expecting someone to actually be flying with the airline to get the benefit. No other airline (that I know of) does it, so why do we expect Qantas to continue to do it?

This has been answered a number of times in a number of ways. Anytime access is a benefit that gets people to continue to fly with qantas, your key point about the purpose of a loyalty program. Also the point made in the other "sensible" post.

Nothing wrong with removing it, if qantas is content to be the same as any other airline. Nothing wrong with removing it if that is the measure qantas wants to send about how interested they are in people continuing I fly with them.

As for the cost of your loyalty, seems to me that you are over valuing it.

You probably right, I thought anytime access by me probably cost qantas about $50. Thinking about it now it is probably only $30. Small price to pay for loyalty.

 

[Smackbum]

Not wishing to pick on Boss reggie in particular ..... but his example is instructive.

Due to the withdrawal of anytime access (and regardless of the very sensible compromise position subsequently made due to logical arguments), Bossreggie has decided to move a significant amount of business away from Qantas.

This in itself is pure dummy spitting (from one point of view) or a sensible business decision (from another). In my opinion it is a bit of both - because the $$$s involved are quite mind-boggling and saving $12K on 3 airfares by just changing providers seems like a no-brainer to me.

My QFF anniversary was the 30th of November and I fell 15 SCs short of retaining Gold due to my decision to not fly Qantas when the price was unjustifiable. Sometimes the saving was less than $100 but screwing my employer is not in my nature. As it was they comped me anyway but if they hadn't then that would have been OK and I would have fallen back on my QC membership. (I'm not a slave to status but I do think lounge access is necessary for frequent business travellers).

There are also lots of complaints about Qantas labelling this as an enhancement. This is perhaps the most irrelevant and childish argument on this thread (and that is saying something!). Qantas have brought their benefits into line with the norm, and the fact that I won't be competing for a seat in the lounge with someone who is flying Virgin or not at all is an enhancement for me. [Yes - I know it is possible for both of these things to still occur, but they will be diminished to some unknown extent]

But I'm sure that there will be reams of replies to point out how wrong I am about life the universe and everything, and my opinion will not be altered one bit and the earth will still be round and the chances of Qantas reversing this decision are extremely remote. In fact I will be slightly peeved if they do give in to the baying minority but it will have absolutely no impact on my travel plans with them because I am not that childish.

 

[medhead]

In particular how many people work towards getting to a 'status' level and with it benefits (perceived or otherwise) and then switch to another airline and start again?

I don't think you'll find many people on this forum who do this either. This isn't a representative characterisation of members of AFF, IMO. Mostly members here fly a lot, enjoy flying and like to get best value for their flying dollar and enjoy their flying. often they fly enough that they can pick and choose who they fly.

As for the public's knowledge of anytime access I first heard about the change from not forum members who are platinum flyers. I really don't think it is realistic to assume that someone who flys enough to be platinum doesn't pay attention to the FF program and the various changes.

(PS Thanks for the sensible reply, see sensible reply=sensible reply from me, take note medhead)

Oh, I don't question your ability to do a sensible reply. I'm looking for a non-insulting reply. And still waiting.

 

[medhead]

(I'm not a slave to status but I do think lounge access is necessary for frequent business travellers).

I'm certainly not going to say your opinion is wrong. I do think that you have made a key statement here. Lounge access is necessary for frequent travellers! Agree 100%.

Anytime access used to give me this lounge access, but no longer once it is removed. I pay for my own flights and had a bit higher threshold of being happy to pay upto $75 to fly with qantas. On the rare occasion my employer flys me I also take the cheapest option.

I have enough flights to be able to have at least gold with 2 airlines. (and i think a lot of platinum FF are in a similar position) Hence I can switch some flying to get that lounge access 100% of the time. As you say lounge access is necessary. Therefore I think it is an entirely natural decision to make in order to look after myself while travelling. This isn't really a business decision (nor selfish), it is simply about what will make my life bearable.

That doesn't make you wrong to stick with qantas. Perhaps you don't do as many flights as me. But it also doesn't make me or anyone else selfish because we do have the ability to make a partial switch.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I don't think you'll find many people on this forum who do this either. This isn't a representative characterisation of members of AFF, IMO. Mostly members here fly a lot, enjoy flying and like to get best value for their flying dollar and enjoy their flying. often they fly enough that they can pick and choose who they fly.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....er-program/how-many-scs-for-2010-a-27002.html

Here's a few balances of members in 2010...
4,000 SC
750K AA miles
2,800 SC
2,285 SC
1,340 SC
2,540 SC
1,735 SC
1,435 SC
1,700 SC
8,500 SC (DJ)
1,400 SC
1,970 SC
3,780 SC
1,070 SC
1,955 SC
1,870 SC
..... and that's just the first couple of pages.

medhead is right, there's not all that many Mileage Runners here - and even if they were - it's money for jam to the airlines.

 

[ajw373]

I see folks here as an extreme example of the flying population. As in - we are the most vocal, friends&family come to us for advice (even if it's to find out how to get an upgrade). If anything, I would say that if an airline can please people like us - pleasing the rest of the frequent flyers is a walk in the park. If they can piss us off.... chances are others will be annoyed, yet feel powerless to do anything except silently change their spending habits.

Correct the people here are the extreme and keeping 'us' happy will keep everyone happy. But 'pissing' extreme people off isn't going to upset the majority, most won't even hear a peep about the debate or the change IMO.

When it comes to Qantas again whilst the population here may well be some large number of FF'ers, in the grand scheme of things it would be a drop in the ocean compared to their full membership. Bet most of the high level FF'ers have very little say or care about the subject and bet most of their flights are booked by agents or PA's.

If this 'gripe' were to make it to the papers, which is why Qantas reacted to the musical instrument issue just recently, then maybe something might change. However doubt the papers would touch it, because their readership would support the underdog and label any complaint about anytime removal as I do as nothing more than a selfish, self centered whinge by people at the top end of the town. Weather that is right or wrong is clearly debatable but we all know that perception is truth when it comes to papers.

 

[ajw373]

I don't think you'll find many people on this forum who do this either. This isn't a representative characterisation of members of AFF, IMO. Mostly members here fly a lot, enjoy flying and like to get best value for their flying dollar and enjoy their flying. often they fly enough that they can pick and choose who they fly.

As for the public's knowledge of anytime access I first heard about the change from not forum members who are platinum flyers. I really don't think it is realistic to assume that someone who flys enough to be platinum doesn't pay attention to the FF program and the various changes.



Oh, I don't question your ability to do a sensible reply. I'm looking for a non-insulting reply. And still waiting.

I must be reading the wrong forum. What I read is posts full of people wanting to know how to maximise their credits to reach certain levels. But besides that wasn't actually what I was meaning.

I would discuss further but I am finished trying to make any sensible conversation with you, you clearly have your issues and are not open to any sensible conversation or discussion and are stuck on Qantas 'Jetstaring' routes and me labeling posts as selfish (which many are). So please do not reply to any more of my posts, and I promise to not reply any more to your posts.