Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

In some (rare) cases seats can show up which have recently been taking by someone else. When booking my oneworld award, a particular CX flight was showing up on the Qantas search but not available when I tried to book over the phone. Someone had already snagged the seat but it was still showing up for a short period of time.

This is actually the Amadeus ghost availability issue. CX seats that show up on BA/QF are phantom seats and may not actually be there. The only way to confirm if they are really there is to check with JL.

 

[ablecookie]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

When the agent is booking the flights on a RTW/award flight, they "grab" the seats as they go through your itinerary and then they are confirmed at the end of the process. I recently helped a friend with some flights and the process took over an hour (mainly as they were trying to add a second person after the first person booked - never a good idea).

It is my understanding from what agents and others have told me, that while the booking is "in process", the flights will still show on searches on QF, BA and others but are not able to be booked (as someone else has a hold/grab on them). As I have no inside knowledge I can't verify the accuracy of this, only report what I've been told.

JV

I managed to booked my 280k trip after 2 days effort on the phone (he had to ring back next day to continue). But ended up with only "half a booking" and lot of stuff-ups.

The trip is meant for PER-HKG-BKK-NRT-YVR-JFK-MIA-BSB-GIG-MAD-TLS-land to WAW-DOH-PER for July-Sept 15.

The missing link was JFK-MIA, there's just no AA seat whatsoever, so thinking such a short leg, quite happy to buy a ticket myself.

After a lot of adjustments, etc. including leaving out BSB, and downgraded to Economy for MIA-GIG, he went to close the booking and found the trip is invalid. Dropping the JFK-MIA leg to a "stop" as I was leaving one airport (JFK) and boarding on another one (MIA) thus creating an extra stop, over the 5 allowed!

He then suggested I surrender MIA-GIG leg, ending up showing a "land" leg all the way from JFK-GIG. Saying will just have to wait to catch the seats between now and next July. Took his advice and did the deal.

Afterwards, started playing with options, and found:

1. I can make it from YVR-MIA by traveling on the East coast. there are seats YVR-LAX-MIA.

2. Next on TAM website, there's plenty of seats from MIA-BSB or GIG or SDU, etc. Looks like Qantas' system only shows up AA flights!

I am going to ring back this morning to fix all these. Probably still need to pay the extra 7,000 points for change!!!

What a bummer.



P.S.:-

Just got back to Qantas, Managed to complete the booking, but only with AA Economy of overnight flight to Brazil - can't win them all. According to the guy, what is shown in TAM is only available their own members and Qantas only gets whatever allowance given to it. Is that true?

At least I didn't have to pay another 7,000 for change. Thanks for small mercy.

 

[ablecookie]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Still wondering the issue of seeing plenty of TAM award seats on TAM website but none showing up to Qantas consultants.

Not satisfied with the response that TAM withhold the seats for their own members, particularly when thawling through it's site, noticed there's penlty of award seats just about every day down to the current week.

Another fact I discovered is that TAM have a different labeling of I & U instead of J & F, may be that got lost in the translation?

 

[snabbu]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

My understanding is that they apply that rule to the minute so they won't ignore that extra 20 minutes.

This is exactly my experience. 23:59 is fine for a transit, if the extra minute is added it becomes a stop over.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Still wondering the issue of seeing plenty of TAM award seats on TAM website but none showing up to Qantas consultants.

Not satisfied with the response that TAM withhold the seats for their own members, particularly when thawling through it's site, noticed there's penlty of award seats just about every day down to the current week.

Another fact I discovered is that TAM have a different labeling of I & U instead of J & F, may be that got lost in the translation?

I may be wrong but my understanding is that "I" denotes a highly discounted rate for J class (equivalent to a QF red E deal, I guess) and "U" denotes the J award seats. "X" is for Y award seats. So you would be looking for either U or X availability. I can't understand the QF person telling you the award seats are only for TAM customers. They are a OW airline now so it would be pointless if they did not release seats to participate in the OW program. Maybe talk to another operator to check this info.

 

[ablecookie]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I may be wrong but my understanding is that "I" denotes a highly discounted rate for J class (equivalent to a QF red E deal, I guess) and "U" denotes the J award seats. "X" is for Y award seats. So you would be looking for either U or X availability. I can't understand the QF person telling you the award seats are only for TAM customers. They are a OW airline now so it would be pointless if they did not release seats to participate in the OW program. Maybe talk to another operator to check this info.

Will definitely follow up on this, may be ask to speak to supervisor.

 

[ozflier]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi,

Thank you for all the data points so far. They have been extremely useful.

I am going to take the plunge and book a OWA.

I have always wanted to go to South America and I am planning now to go in OW award J in september 2015. Needless to say , I have been warned re problems getting award seats in that continent.

Can I please confirm several issues?

If I book both my wife and myself on the one PNR , I assume that:

I can only access inventory which has 2 seats in that class - eg no go if only one J and one Y.
I pay the one 3.5k point fee for each additional leg I book or change I make.

The itn is going to be booked in several tranches - as availability comes up –

Will it be an issue altering the booking once made initially (say as SYD-SCL as they would be the only seats available early on and I would want to take them asap) of course knowing that I will be up for the 3.5K fee each time I ring .

Can I do the initial booking ( ? SYD-SLC on QF which seems to come out earliest, AA and LAN later etc) online and not pay the booking fee and then later add additional legs via phone paying the fee.

Does there need to be a notation or reference in my initial booking so that QFF knows that eventually I want the itinerary to end up as a OWA? I am assuming that once the initial booking is made and, additional legs made, once the point total gets to that required for a OWA and the itn is consistent with the OWA rules, then it will be regarded as a OWA.

 

[Jacques Vert]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi,
If I book both my wife and myself on the one PNR , I assume that:

I can only access inventory which has 2 seats in that class - eg no go if only one J and one Y.
If you are doing it over the phone the agent should be able to do both, did so for a friend of mine recently.

I pay the one 3.5k point fee for each additional leg I book or change I make.
3.5k each passenger.

The itn is going to be booked in several tranches - as availability comes up –

Will it be an issue altering the booking once made initially (say as SYD-SCL as they would be the only seats available early on and I would want to take them asap) of course knowing that I will be up for the 3.5K fee each time I ring .
Should not be an issue but again 3.5k per passenger.

Can I do the initial booking ( ? SYD-SLC on QF which seems to come out earliest, AA and LAN later etc) online and not pay the booking fee and then later add additional legs via phone paying the fee.
Someone with more experience will need to answer this one.

Does there need to be a notation or reference in my initial booking so that QFF knows that eventually I want the itinerary to end up as a OWA? I am assuming that once the initial booking is made and, additional legs made, once the point total gets to that required for a OWA and the itn is consistent with the OWA rules, then it will be regarded as a ONW.
No, should change to 280k max points automatically provided you stay within the rules.

Enjoy, JV

 

[ozflier]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi,
Thanks for that.
As the fee per change is per person , it begs the question why just not have separate bookings rather than one .
Any thoughts?

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Jacques Vert has answered most of your queries ozflier but here's my 2c worth:

I'm pleasantly surprised that Jacques advises that a friend of his was able to book into separate classes on the one PNR - when I tried it 6 months ago for some AA award flights from YYC - DFW I got a very definite "not possible" response from the operator. It's been my experience that occasionally the operators do get some things completely wrong though (which is why AFF can be so helpful sometimes). Also, maybe Jacques could confirm that his friend was booking a OW award and not a paid fare.

Can I do the initial booking ( ? SYD-SLC on QF which seems to come out earliest, AA and LAN later etc) online and not pay the booking fee and then later add additional legs via phone paying the fee.

Yes, booking the first legs online yourself is definitely the preferred option as there's no fee.

As the fee per change is per person , it begs the question why just not have separate bookings rather than one ?

Having separate PNRs is not risk free - for starters, if you are on the same PNR you usually get seats together - that's not a "given" on separate PNRs. Secondly, if a flight is cancelled you won't be guaranteed to both get seats on the same alternate flight. Thirdly, if a flight was over-booked and they were offloading pax (a remote possibility, I know......but.....) separate PNRs could see one of you offloaded and the other not.

 

[Jacques Vert]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Jacques Vert has answered most of your queries ozflier but here's my 2c worth:

I'm pleasantly surprised that Jacques advises that a friend of his was able to book into separate classes on the one PNR - when I tried it 6 months ago for some AA award flights from YYC - DFW I got a very definite "not possible" response from the operator. It's been my experience that occasionally the operators do get some things completely wrong though (which is why AFF can be so helpful sometimes). Also, maybe Jacques could confirm that his friend was booking a OW award and not a paid fare.

I helped my friend(s) book this itinerary, and it was definitely on points.

We were lucky to get an agent who, although not as knowledgeable as many, more than made up for it with his helpfulness and persistence to achieve what we were after. We were adding a second person to an existing itinerary and then adding flights for both as well. He persisted for over 75 minutes to sort it all out.

I think he did it as two bookings initially (he seemed to have two bookings going at once) and then combined them at the end (at least that is what he told us) but following Vetrade's comments I will get my friends to double check that they are now both on the same PNR.

I agree with Vetrade's comments about PNRs; maybe you could ask the agent who does the change/additions if they can combine the PNRs at the end of the process.

Obviously better to book the same class/days, etc in the first place.

Good luck,

JV

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I helped my friend(s) book this itinerary, and it was definitely on points.

Thanks for confirming that Jacques - unfortunately too late for us because, as is to be expected, the J & Y seats I wanted to book months ago are not available now - not happy that we ended up doing a major re-shuffle of flights which as it turns out wasn't necessary. I hate it when the operators can sometimes be so definite and yet so wrong about some things!!

 

[Jacques Vert]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Thanks for confirming that Jacques - unfortunately too late for us because, as is to be expected, the J & Y seats I wanted to book months ago are not available now - not happy that we ended up doing a major re-shuffle of flights which as it turns out wasn't necessary. I hate it when the operators can sometimes be so definite and yet so wrong about some things!!

I trust that when you are sipping your bubbly or spirit that this issue will seem far less annoying that it does now.

I have said before that the secret to these awards is to be flexible in both date and route; I have a trip report coming up that may be of interest.

JV

 

[nm1]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hello all, have read through this thread and picked up some valuable info - I'm just not completely clear on a couple of things.

Am looking to travel to Europe in either Sept or Oct 2015 Business Class x 2 . Departing Melbourne first stop - London , Paris or Amsterdam - flights are starting to become available now.

if I book a flight to say Amsterdam flying Cathay Pacific now - can I convert this to an around the world fare when other flights become available ?
Am I best booking my one way to Europe now and then the return in about 6 weeks when flights are released ?

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

if I book a flight to say Amsterdam flying Cathay Pacific now - can I convert this to an around the world fare when other flights become available ?
Am I best booking my one way to Europe now and then the return in about 6 weeks when flights are released ?

Yes, you can book the first leg/s as a classic award on points when they are released and the booking will automatically convert to a OW RTW award once you have added enough extra flights to take you over the 280K pp limit. Subject to the rules, you can then add more flights and the points are capped at 280K.
For in-demand awards on routes between Australia and Europe (especially J class) I would definitely book the flights as they are released. If you wait till both flights have been released to book them at the same time you will probably find that availability on the outbound legs has already gone.

 

[serfty]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

This is exactly my experience. 23:59 is fine for a transit, if the extra minute is added it becomes a stop over.

Not in my experience - landed at LHR 10am, departed LGW 10am next day - treated as a (co-terminal) transit - no APD was payable.

[Ticketed as -xORD-xLON-DBV-]

 

[SOPOOR]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

apolgies for the terrible question, but Iread the first 5 pages and gave up confused,

I assume from the title for 140k qFF points, 280k, you can go round the world in economy/business class flights

im in melbourne, I have enough points for two people RTW @ 280k points each,

havent decided where to go, quite fleixble to be honest,

so is the recommended method to get max value to do something like melb, to europe, stop over in a few countries (is the max 5) and then come back???

is it the same for USA??

at this stage.we are happy to do europe, or USA or UK

thanks eveyrone

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

apolgies for the terrible question, but Iread the first 5 pages and gave up confused,

I assume from the title for 140k qFF points, 280k, you can go round the world in economy/business class flights

im in melbourne, I have enough points for two people RTW @ 280k points each,

havent decided where to go, quite fleixble to be honest,

so is the recommended method to get max value to do something like melb, to europe, stop over in a few countries (is the max 5) and then come back???

is it the same for USA??

at this stage.we are happy to do europe, or USA or UK

thanks eveyrone

Firstly, Sopoor, you need to familiarise yourself with the rules for Oneworld awards - the basics are that you can have up to 16 individual flights, maximum of 35,000 miles and a maximum of 5 stop-overs (stop-overs refer to individual cities, not countries). You can transit (less than 24 hrs between flights) an individual city no more than twice and you can only have one stop-over in any individual city. You can go to as many countries / continents as you like subject to those restrictions. All flights must be on Oneworld member airlines - there is a list at oneworld.com. Also read up the QF terms and conditions on their website which has a section on classic awards. You do not actually have to go RTW in one direction, despite what the name implies.

Be prepared to read many more pages than the 5 you already have because you won't be able to get the most out of a OW RTW award booking unless you develop a working knowledge of how they work.

By far the best value is business class ("J" class) because the taxes and fuel surcharges are virtually the same for economy and business but the for double the points you get seats that would cost 3-4 times as much if you were paying cash. J seats are less available though so you need to book your seats early and be flexible with dates and routes to massage your hopes into an achievable itinerary.

You have quite a few hours of catching up to do, Sopoor, but there won't be any alternative to you dong the "hard yards".

 

[ablecookie]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I managed to contact Red Roo, he is official Qantas rep on AFF regarding my difficulty of booking partner's seats.

Eventually spoke to Qantas staff and enlightened me regarding seat allocation within OneWorld system. Apparently most airlines do keep the majority of award seats for their own members. Qantas does the same. On top of this, the oneworld allocation can be airline specific and therefore searching and finding availability on BA does not mean can be booked with Qantas points.

Looks like might as well give up trying to nail down TAM seats, I can imagine very few Brazilians interested in flying Qantas, so there's little relationship between T&Q.

I like anyone to confirm this with their experience.

 

[Mattg]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I managed to contact Red Roo, he is official Qantas rep on AFF regarding my difficulty of booking partner's seats.

Eventually spoke to Qantas staff and enlightened me regarding seat allocation within OneWorld system. Apparently most airlines do keep the majority of award seats for their own members. Qantas does the same. On top of this, the oneworld allocation can be airline specific and therefore searching and finding availability on BA does not mean can be booked with Qantas points.

Looks like might as well give up trying to nail down TAM seats, I can imagine very few Brazilians interested in flying Qantas, so there's little relationship between T&Q.

I like anyone to confirm this with their experience.

I can confirm that trying to incorporate TAM flights into a oneworld award is near impossible. It caused me so much hassle when I planned my trip that I had to go from Brazil to Australia via the USA on AA/QF. I simply could not get Rio de Janeiro/São Paulo to Santiago on TAM despite being extremely flexible with dates and routings.