Lack of curtains separating Business and Economy on 737

[PJF]

Qantas indeed used to do this in the past, with FA's standing in the aisle between Business/First class passengers and those in economy until the premium cabin denizens were on their way.

Perhaps they should start doing it again

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Perhaps they should start doing it again

I was watching a QF F video report on youtube. On arrival the video showed J class coming down the stairs with absolutely no attempt by crew to hold them while the F cabin cleared out. And QF wonders why they can't generate a market for F? Even BA has started to realise it's the little things for F ground handling that can make a difference to the travel experience (like getting bags out first, as advertised).

 

[TomVexille]

Perhaps they should start doing it again

They did on QF 3 last Saturday

 

[PJF]

I was watching a QF F video report on youtube. On arrival the video showed J class coming down the stairs with absolutely no attempt by crew to hold them while the F cabin cleared out. And QF wonders why they can't generate a market for F? Even BA has started to realise it's the little things for F ground handling that can make a difference to the travel experience (like getting bags out first, as advertised).

IMHO the experience now with QF is that it appears they are not interested in the little things. Well the practice is inconsistent. As said before by others QF consistently inconsistent

 

[Pushka]

Today on Qatar. Awful plane for 5 hours (which crew knew and kept apologizing for) but curtains closed during flight and whilst J exited.

 

[serfty]

They did on QF 3 last Saturday

They still indeed mostly do it internationally, my reference was to domestic.

 

[TomVexille]

They still indeed mostly do it internationally, my reference was to domestic.

Gotcha

 

[PJF]

Travelled QF To Melb & return over the weekend. Only seen one person in both directions sneak through to front lav from row 4 & 5. A number of them tried but were sent packing by CSM down the back. It was good to see the J section getting what they paid for and some exclusivity and policing of this problem.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Qantas indeed used to do this in the past, with FA's standing in the aisle between Business/First class passengers and those in economy until the premium cabin denizens were on their way.

In 1980 Mr FM and I had gone down to Melbourne to help TAA with the cutover of their new reservations system. On the way back to Sydney as a thank-you we were upgraded to First (as it was known then). We were in our late 20s and had never before flown in a premium cabin. We were taking our time getting off and chatting, when we realised the FA was holding everyone back. We very quickly (and embarrassedly) got up and raced off.

After TAA became Qantas I noticed for a long time the FAs continued doing this, but it slowly wore down to some did and some didn’t and then it vanished altogether.

 

[Trudie22]

We have had countless issues flying business from Brisbane to Christchurch & return with Qantas. After witnessing the ongoing toilet saga, I complained to the FA in charge of the business passengers one evening flight when I had to line up behind several economy passengers to use the “business toilet”.

The FA informed me that one passenger in particular had “approval” due to his medical condition. When I questioned why his wife was also standing in the Queue, the FA didn’t reply, just shot me a dirty look for opening my mouth.

my husband has fed back this common occurrence to Qantas. 3000 placation points later....but what are qantas actually “doing” to stop economy passengers from using the business toilet????

As I said to the wife of the “sick” husband who was also standing in the business toilet queue...who had a go at me for saying something to the FA......we pay for our business privileges!!! I suggested to the wife that perhaps she should have allocated their economy seats closer the rear of the plane where their 2 toilets are located for ease of access for her sick husband.

seems nowdays all you get “privilage wise” when paying huge amounts to fly business on AU to NZ flights is slightly better food & more seat & legroom.

We even witnessed an economy passenger lie to the FA on our last return business flight in November this year when lining up to use the business toilet. When asked if he was travelling business by the FA in charge of business....he replied “yes”!!!

when we fly economy interstate, we allocate our seats to the rear of the plane for easy toilet access. I am a platinum FF, and would never walk into business when travelling economy to use their toilet. It’s downright rude, disresptful to the business travellers and the fact that ignorant economy passengers continue to do this and get away with it shows the lack of service standards Qantas is providing.

This business class breach really needs to be more heavily enforced by all cabin crew, not just the allocated business FA!

I also was under the impression (and please correct me if I am wrong) that “business” & first class checked in baggage was supposed to be off loaded onto the arrival carousel first. Qantas baggage handlers have dropped the ball on that “paid for privilage” also. I’ve lost count of how many times our luggage has arrived last on the carousel!

Qantas need to take a leaf out of VA Book and cordon off business from economy.
We have flown business to LA, and there is no way the Business FA’s will allow economy to walk through to use the business toilets on the Dreamliner! So why are they allowing it on the flights to NZ & interstate in AUS?
Qantas Business service standards really do need assessing and overhauling....

I would happily be a “secret assesor” for Qantas. If they had a several secret assessors flying on the 737’s, perhaps more feedback would be provided to the CEO and some pro active FA education provided to facilitate change to improve the business travellers “privileged” experience paid for.

 

[The Mole]

FACTS: The Flight Attendants' Union have been pushing QF for years to have the curtain re-introduced. QF will not issue a policy for the forward toilet other than "manage it on the day" - they don't want to upset FF in the first rows of YCL. Cabin Crew are being abused (yet agin) on this (lack of) policy with no support - they are abused by JCL pax if they allow YCL to use the toilet and abused by YCL if they deny them (especially the FF's). A no-win solution. The best option (other than return the curtain or introduce a rope like VA) is YCL pax line up at the divider - this way 1. the flight deck door area is kept clear. 2. JCL have first option to use the toilet. 3. Pax are not queuing in the JCL aisle. 4. Pax are not in the FWD galley where crew are working or trying to eat - and pax are not in the door area preventing quick access to the jumpiest by crew in turbulence.

If YCL pax argue they are simply directed to stand at the divider next to the sign which states: "Business Class Only Beyond This Point" and they 'may' realise the crew are doing the a favour by ALLOWING them to use the forward toilet.

Re: Blocking the aisle for JCL to disembark first on 737 a/c: As the 737 crew is reduced to 4 - there is no FA available to block YCL pax so JCL can disembark first as this FA would be away from their still-armed exit (not permitted under CASA regs). Also, this 'blocking' FA would then have to push past disembarking pax to reach the gate lounge door first to open it - providing all JCL pax disembark quickly - as gate staff have been reduced to 1 - there is no other person available to open the gate door anymore other than the FA. 3 FA's are required to be onboard a 737 at anytime pax are onboard and must stay within their designated exit areas. When 5 FA's are carried the 5th is seated down the back and not able to block either - and their responsibility is the overawing exits.

Another difficult situation created by reduced staff.

 

[docjames]

VA seem to manage to have a crew member standing where the interface between Y and J is after landing / upon arrival to allow J pax to disembark first.
VA seem to manage to have a rope and enforce separation of cabins in-flight (with allowance for crossover where necessary).
This seems an obvious solution to the “problem”.

QF chose not to do this despite it seemingly being within their control to do so.


I note this is an old thread - until today last post was almost 18 months ago.

Nothing has changed in that time.

 

[kermatu]

I have once, and only once, seen a QF CSM allow Y pax access to the J toilet but insist on them standing behind row 3. Still poor practice but better than just allowing open slather. Was half-inclined to jump up ahead of the Y pax to see if I still had priority but couldn’t be bothered / didn’t feel that mean. Reason she gave was ‘to keep the galley clear’ rather than J pax have priority.

I do feel for FAs and I’m also a big fan of the VA rope. But the position is clear so they really should enforce. One turnback usually sends the message.

If QF want to allow CLs to use the J bathroom make that the policy and announce it onboard.

 

[Rangalad]

Today on Qatar. Awful plane for 5 hours (which crew knew and kept apologizing for) but curtains closed during flight and whilst J exited.

View attachment 128814

View attachment 128815

The magazine rack! Another memory of the QF good old days......

 

[Rangalad]

I have once, and only once, seen a QF CSM allow Y pax access to the J toilet but insist on them standing behind row 3. Still poor practice but better than just allowing open slather. Was half-inclined to jump up ahead of the Y pax to see if I still had priority but couldn’t be bothered / didn’t feel that mean. Reason she gave was ‘to keep the galley clear’ rather than J pax have priority.

I do feel for FAs and I’m also a big fan of the VA rope. But the position is clear so they really should enforce. One turnback usually sends the message.

If QF want to allow CLs to use the J bathroom make that the policy and announce it onboard.

Agreed!

I too feel for the FAs. The rope appears to be a simple solution.

The bean counters would no doubt argue against this, given the additional (unnecessary) weight of the rope.
Hazard a guess, this may be one of the reasons put forward to remove the curtain in the first place.

 

[straitman]

We flew LAX - MEX last week on a full AA A319. ie a bunch less seats than the B738 we are invariably talking about here. (6 J/F and 120 Y)
Our next flight is 29/12 MEX - DFW on a B738 so I'll watch on again.

Sitting in the first row of 'Y' so we could see it all happen.

No rope or curtains in sight and Y passengers allowed to use the front toilet.

Maybe the Americans (north, central and south) are more polite as there were none of the hassles described in this thread. When trollies were out people stayed in their seats, when J pax wanted to use the from toilet the Y pax reframed from pushing their way forward.

IMHO the outcome of the 'toilet wars' has more to do with people's attitudes than their entitlements!

 

[Trudie22]

I have once, and only once, seen a QF CSM allow Y pax access to the J toilet but insist on them standing behind row 3. Still poor practice but better than just allowing open slather. Was half-inclined to jump up ahead of the Y pax to see if I still had priority but couldn’t be bothered / didn’t feel that mean. Reason she gave was ‘to keep the galley clear’ rather than J pax have priority.

I do feel for FAs and I’m also a big fan of the VA rope. But the position is clear so they really should enforce. One turnback usually sends the message.

If QF want to allow CLs to use the J bathroom make that the policy and announce it onboard.

Qantas make a point of noting that the j pax bathroom located at the front of the aircraft is only for the j pax passenger use during their pre flight announcement.

problem is....ignorant Y pax passengers either choosing to ignore the announcement, or not even hearing it due to their heads being buried in electronic technology!

people are people.....opportunistic and self serving! It’s up to Qantas to enforce their standards......if this means placing a “simple” detachable rope system across the business barrier area, then it really needs to be not only implemented ....but equally as important enforced!

 

[Trudie22]

We flew LAX - MEX last week on a full AA A319. ie a bunch less seats than the B738 we are invariably talking about here. (6 J/F and 120 Y)
Our next flight is 29/12 MEX - DFW on a B738 so I'll watch on again.

Sitting in the first row of 'Y' so we could see it all happen.

No rope or curtains in sight and Y passengers allowed to use the front toilet.

Maybe the Americans (north, central and south) are more polite as there were none of the hassles described in this thread. When trollies were out people stayed in their seats, when J pax wanted to use the from toilet the Y pax reframed from pushing their way forward.

IMHO the outcome of the 'toilet wars' has more to do with people's attitudes than their entitlements!

you obviously have not travelled in Australia, let alone Australia to New Zealand. It is really bad here. The general consensus with Y Pax passengers is that they are just as equally “entitled” to not only use J pax toilet in flight....but to add insult to an expensive injury believe they have the right to line up well past the business “barrier”, this making it impossible for the business passengers to even get out of their seats, let alone use their “dedicated ” toilet.

we will continue to provide feedback to Qantas regarding this as it won’t change any time soon. Perhaps commencement of video showing Y pax lining up from behind the barrier to use the J pax toilet might make Qantas pay attention to the matter!

 

[straitman]

I too feel for the FAs. The rope appears to be a simple solution.

The bean counters would no doubt argue against this, given the additional (unnecessary) weight of the rope.
Hazard a guess, this may be one of the reasons put forward to remove the curtain in the first place.

Not a chance as 2 lb of rope weight of 174,200 lb is irrelevant.

Qantas make a point of noting that the j pax bathroom located at the front of the aircraft is only for the j pax passenger use during their pre flight announcement.

problem is....ignorant Y pax passengers either choosing to ignore the announcement, or not even hearing it due to their heads being buried in electronic technology!

people are people.....opportunistic and self serving! It’s up to Qantas to enforce their standards......if this means placing a “simple” detachable rope system across the business barrier area, then it really needs to be not only implemented ....but equally as important enforced!

I agree absolutely. If there are rules they need to be enforced!

 

[Trudie22]

Agreed!

I too feel for the FAs. The rope appears to be a simple solution.

The bean counters would no doubt argue against this, given the additional (unnecessary) weight of the rope.
Hazard a guess, this may be one of the reasons put forward to remove the curtain in the first place.

A piece of rope surely doesn’t weigh as much as a newborn! Do qantas charge parents for an extra seat for their babies when flying.....I think not!