General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[MEL_Traveller]

And the Danish study did just that with people in a house with a positive covid patient. I have posted that a few times already.
conclusion at very most a 1-2% reduction but at worst a 2-5% increase in positive cases in the mask wearers.

Also look at the figures I posted. Australia's case load was highest in the beginning of 2022 when mask wearing was still a thing. As the numbers wearing masks has dropped the incidence of cases has also dropped.
Then look at the Japan and Taiwan figures. An increase in cases in the last few months despite way higher mask wearing rates than australia.

What was science with alpha and beta variants is no longer relevant in the Omicron era.
Now variants XBB and BQ.1 are taking over from B4 and B5. Which means that it is very probable that they are better at evading the bodies immune system than previous variants. this includes immunity from vaccines or previous infection.
The WHO is concerned.

TAG-VE statement on Omicron sublineages BQ.1 and XBB

As part of its ongoing work to track variants, WHO's Technical Advisory Group on SARS-CoV-2 Virus Evolution (TAG-VE) met on the 24 October 2022 to discuss the latest evidence on the Omicron variant of concern, and how its evolution is currently unfolding, in light of high levels of population...

www.who.int

If we’re not testing we don’t know the exact numbers.

Australia currently has no mask mandates and case numbers are way up in recent weeks. We don’t know what the numbers would be if everyone was wearing masks. Maybe a 1-2% reduction. Maybe more.

 

[drron]

If we’re not testing we don’t know the exact numbers.

Australia currently has no mask mandates and case numbers are way up in recent weeks. We don’t know what the numbers would be if everyone was wearing masks. Maybe a 1-2% reduction. Maybe more.

Hardly way up. But again this is due to the new variant where even the Commonwealth Cheif Medical Officer said it evades immunity provided by previous Omicron variants which include B4 and B5 - ie those antibodies produced after having the new bivalent vaccine.

 

[N860CR]

If we’re not testing we don’t know the exact numbers.

Australia currently has no mask mandates and case numbers are way up in recent weeks. We don’t know what the numbers would be if everyone was wearing masks. Maybe a 1-2% reduction. Maybe more.

Are you now prepared to admit that your position is that we need to be wearing masks for the rest of eternity?

In NSW with a population of about 8,000,000, there were about 30,000 “infected” people in the population during the last week. You’re saying masks may have a “1-2% reduction”. So given your chance of crossing someone with covid is virtually zero, and the chance of a mask being if any benefit is pretty close to zero as well, do you see how it’s somewhat of a redundant arguement?

That’s ignoring the fact that the virus is only having an impact on less than 1% of infected people, and that we proved how totally ineffective masks are during our periods of highest infection early this year.

You’d be better off advocating for permanent helmet mandates in case you happen to fall over. Perhaps we should have everyone in a nursing home walking around with helmets and knee guards? Falls are of far greater concern there than covid is.

 

[Pushka]

If we’re not testing we don’t know the exact numbers.

Australia currently has no mask mandates and case numbers are way up in recent weeks. We don’t know what the numbers would be if everyone was wearing masks. Maybe a 1-2% reduction. Maybe more.

Hardly any masks in SA. Our peak just passed. We never got close to their extreme predictions in numbers despite lousy weather. This peak was predicted months ago. When masks were still required indoors.

PCR testing clinics will all be closed here in next few weeks and requires a Drs visit and lab request to get one now. Only after a negative test on a RAT but symptoms. They are giving 5 free RATs to everyone. It's not over but as good as now.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hardly any masks in SA. Our peak just passed. We never got close to their extreme predictions in numbers despite lousy weather. This peak was predicted months ago. When masks were still required indoors.

PCR testing clinics will all be closed here in next few weeks and requires a Drs visit and lab request to get one now. Only after a negative test on a RAT but symptoms. They are giving 5 free RATs to everyone. It's not over but as good as now.

That’s fine, but anti maskers can’t then also lament that cancer screenings are down, or casuals aren’t getting paid when they can’t go to work. Or that they can’t get their child into childcare because the teacher is away sick.

Just one cancer screening technician could affect 30 or more patients a week.

 

[Pushka]

That’s fine, but anti maskers can’t then also lament that cancer screenings are down, or casuals aren’t getting paid when they can’t go to work. Or that they can’t get their child into childcare because the teacher is away sick.

Just one cancer screening technician could affect 30 or more patients a week.

I'm sorry but if you continue to think mask wearing is a panacea to people not getting medical treatment or screenings when needed, well, I dunno what to say. That sounds like the Govt response to ambulance ramping because of Covid. It wasn't Covid that created it, it was the lack of foresight and planning stemming from years of poor Govt planning. The Covid excuse.

We are desperately short of staff in pretty much every industry and the wearing of masks, now, will most certainly not fix that nor will it make it any worse than life as it used to be.

 

[JohnK]

One could use that point to say that seeing people wearing masks reminds one of lockdowns and all that happened then, which is triggering. It would be better for people's mental health to not allow masks to be worn anymore except in some especially high risk settings like hospitals and aged care.

We allow people to get drunk and to smoke. This affects others even if not directly. A lot of domestic violence, car accidents etc. is connected to excessive drinking. As a non-smoker I don't like standing next to someone smoking.

We used to allow people to smoke anywhere. I used to chain smoke at my office desk in the 80s with 15+ people in office. We used to smoke in the lunch room.

Drunk is another story. We should fit cars with devices so that people cannot start a car under influence of alcohol. I'd even go as far as not allowing some people to drink or control their drink. A close friend of my wife/daughter passed away 2 weeks ago.in Thailand. Alcoholic. 43 years old.

Now back to masks. Before this pandemic people wore masks. Nothing was said. Now (only in Australia thanks to useless information on Telegram and coughute) people think someone wearing a mask is not normal. Why? Because masks remind people of lockdowns? Seriously?

I have said it many times. Depression is nothing new. It has been around a very long time. No one cared.

Here's what used to happen. "You know the young lad around the corner committed suicide because he had a huge gambling". Oh poor lady and feel sorry for his family.

Today. "Oh that young lad around the corner is suffering from depression because he couldn't get drunk beyond control on Friday and Saturday nights" See what lockdowns do to people.

Why do we care all of a sudden? Suits our agenda? I've been suffering from severe depression most my adult life. No one cares. I've got a 6 year old daughter. Some days I don't want to get out of bed but I do because life goes on.

Learn to deal with Life's challenges. It's not that difficult.

 

[Pushka]

We used to allow people to smoke anywhere. I used to chain smoke at my office desk in the 80s with 15+ people in office. We used to smoke in the lunch room.

Drunk is another story. We should fit cars with devices so that people cannot start a car under influence of alcohol. I'd even go as far as not allowing some people to drink or control their drink. A close friend of my wife/daughter passed away 2 weeks ago.in Thailand. Alcoholic. 43 years old.

Now back to masks. Before this pandemic people wore masks. Nothing was said. Now (only in Australia thanks to useless information on Telegram and coughute) people think someone wearing a mask is not normal. Why? Because masks remind people of lockdowns? Seriously?

I have said it many times. Depression is nothing new. It has been around a very long time. No one cared.

Here's what used to happen. "You know the young lad around the corner committed suicide because he had a huge gambling". Oh poor lady and feel sorry for his family.

Today. "Oh that young lad around the corner is suffering from depression because he couldn't get drunk beyond control on Friday and Saturday nights" See what lockdowns do to people.

Why do we care all of a sudden? Suits our agenda? I've been suffering from severe depression most my adult life. No one cares. I've got a 6 year old daughter. Some days I don't want to get out of bed but I do because life goes on.

Learn to deal with Life's challenges. It's not that difficult.

You were never in lockdown in Melbourne/Victoria and believe me I've met many, very mature sensible and well educated people who have come from very difficult circumstances in the sixties and who are now only just emerging from the damage that was done to their mental health during that time. The second almost immediate lockdown was the one that inflicted most harm.

Are you suggesting that because mental health was not dealt with, nor even acknowledged, nor treated effectively in the past that we should not be looking at triggers and treatment for the future? Sounds to me like you are advocating for the cement treatment

 

[marki]

And the Danish study did just that with people in a house with a positive covid patient. I have posted that a few times already.
conclusion at very most a 1-2% reduction but at worst a 2-5% increase in positive cases in the mask wearers.

Also look at the figures I posted. Australia's case load was highest in the beginning of 2022 when mask wearing was still a thing. As the numbers wearing masks has dropped the incidence of cases has also dropped.
Then look at the Japan and Taiwan figures. An increase in cases in the last few months despite way higher mask wearing rates than australia.

What was science with alpha and beta variants is no longer relevant in the Omicron era.
Now variants XBB and BQ.1 are taking over from B4 and B5. Which means that it is very probable that they are better at evading the bodies immune system than previous variants. this includes immunity from vaccines or previous infection.
The WHO is concerned.

TAG-VE statement on Omicron sublineages BQ.1 and XBB

As part of its ongoing work to track variants, WHO's Technical Advisory Group on SARS-CoV-2 Virus Evolution (TAG-VE) met on the 24 October 2022 to discuss the latest evidence on the Omicron variant of concern, and how its evolution is currently unfolding, in light of high levels of population...

www.who.int

The Who is concerned means they need to fly economy at short notice. Serum antibodies (in covid)are less useful than epithelial antibodies used in airways.

 

[N860CR]

Why do we care all of a sudden? Suits our agenda? I've been suffering from severe depression most my adult life. No one cares. I've got a 6 year old daughter. Some days I don't want to get out of bed but I do because life goes on

I thought you were suggesting we shouldn’t go back to our “pathetic lives”, yet you want to now because “life goes on”.

I’m sorry you’ve got mental health issues. This bizarre and irrational obsession with covid is not helping that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm sorry but if you continue to think mask wearing is a panacea to people not getting medical treatment or screenings when needed, well, I dunno what to say. That sounds like the Govt response to ambulance ramping because of Covid. It wasn't Covid that created it, it was the lack of foresight and planning stemming from years of poor Govt planning. The Covid excuse.

We are desperately short of staff in pretty much every industry and the wearing of masks, now, will most certainly not fix that nor will it make it any worse than life as it used to be.

Of course it’s no panacea. But surely it’s not too much to ask people do little things to try and minimise impact? Masks where social distancing cannot be maintained for example. 10 minutes of a mask on a train or while interacting with retail staff isn’t a huge deal, and could prevent the other person getting sick.

It doesn’t have to be an ‘all or nothing’. There is a space where masks could be of use, as currently recommended by the QLD government.

 

[marki]

Now back to masks. Before this pandemic people wore masks. Nothing was said. Now (only in Australia thanks to useless information on Telegram and coughute) people think someone wearing a mask is not normal. Why? Because masks remind people of lockdowns? Seriously?

JohnK, for me, it is the mandating where you have no choice, which is the zero COVID policy China pushes. If you want to wear a mask, do so. Don't force me to do the same.

*All sneezes observed by me were preceded by mask removal.

 

[marki]

Of course it’s no panacea. But surely it’s not too much to ask people do little things to try and minimise impact? Masks where social distancing cannot be maintained for example. 10 minutes of a mask on a train or while interacting with retail staff isn’t a huge deal, and could prevent the other person getting sick.

It doesn’t have to be an ‘all or nothing’. There is a space where masks could be of use, as currently recommended by the QLD government.

Mr Petty is an Industrial Hygienist. An expert in his field. The conclusion is ¾ in.

 

[JohnK]

I thought you were suggesting we shouldn’t go back to our “pathetic lives”, yet you want to now because “life goes on”.

I’m sorry you’ve got mental health issues. This bizarre and irrational obsession with covid is not helping that.

I don't have an obsession with covid. It's a dangerous virus and we should treat it that way. That 98.3% survive without issue is totally irrelevant. What's relevant is the number of people suffering because of covid not lockdowns.

Oh poor people couldn't buy alcohol to drink during lockdowns.

Oh poor people couldn't go shopping to pass covid on to others.

Oh poor people couldn't go to restaurants or the club.

Both my parents lived through a world war. My mother witnessed her 12 year old sister burning. The nurses killed her in hospital.

What I'm saying is that people from all walks of life suffer everyday. Some suffer their whole lives. When faced with a challenge learn to deal with it.

@Pushka we had lockdowns and restrictions in Queensland too.

We went to Hervey Bay for holiday. I'd spent a lot of money of my hard earned money on that holiday. We were already in Hervey Bay and then had to lockdown/isolate because Brisbane went into lockdown.

I could not visit my parents in Sydney for quite sometime. They could not see their granddaughter for 12 months.

We were in Sydney in April 2021 and left just before that person was discovered in Eastern Suburbs with covid. He'd been to Mascot near where we were staying. We were panicking we'd have to quarantine returning back.to Gold Coast.

My wife was stuck in Australia for just over 2 years. She was extremely homesick.

We all learnt to cope. That's what anyone who is faced with difficult situation does. Adapt.

I'd hate to see a 6 year global war. Most in Australia would not survive if we were seriously affected.

 

[drron]

That’s fine, but anti maskers can’t then also lament that cancer screenings are down, or casuals aren’t getting paid when they can’t go to work. Or that they can’t get their child into childcare because the teacher is away sick.

Just one cancer screening technician could affect 30 or more patients a week.

What absolute rubbish. The problems with cancer screening was due to lockdowns and isolation.

A very observant physician made this observation on AFF on 6/5/2020.
"
What stood out about this week was seeing the effects of lock down.Of those 14 new admissions 2 were due to worsening of chronic liver disease due to increased alcohol intake.One was alcoholic hepatitis,one overdose.

And 2 sad cases.both older women.One with a history of mental illness who had a great network of friends who visited her regularly.that stopped so she was found in the street Sunday morning having gone out,didn't know where she was and nearly succumbed with hypothermia.

The second was a woman who lived alone.normally visited regularly by family and Community Nurses.Community nursing has had to reduce the frequency of visits and family didn't want to put her at risk.Unfortunately a fall soon after daughter left and 48 hours on the floor suffering rhabdomyolysis with acute kidney failure.She did survive but will have a long stay in Rehab.

And 2 older fellows with known mental illness who took to the drink and went off their meds.
We are paying a big but virtually silent price for these restrictions."

 

[marki]

It's a dangerous virus

I don't have an obsession with covid. It's a dangerous virus and we should treat it that way.

It's a Cold Virus ( respiratory ) It is not the virus that is dangerous it is the political response to the virus that is dangerous.

 

[marki]

What absolute rubbish. The problems with cancer screening was due to lockdowns and isolation.

I 100% agree, and the dancing Medical and Accident / Emergency staff while holding a sign saying stay at home.

 

[Pushka]

I don't have an obsession with covid. It's a dangerous virus and we should treat it that way. That 98.3% survive without issue is totally irrelevant. What's relevant is the number of people suffering because of covid not lockdowns.

Oh poor people couldn't buy alcohol to drink during lockdowns.

Oh poor people couldn't go shopping to pass covid on to others.

Oh poor people couldn't go to restaurants or the club.

Both my parents lived through a world war. My mother witnessed her 12 year old sister burning. The nurses killed her in hospital.

What I'm saying is that people from all walks of life suffer everyday. Some suffer their whole lives. When faced with a challenge learn to deal with it.

@Pushka we had lockdowns and restrictions in Queensland too.

We went to Hervey Bay for holiday. I'd spent a lot of money of my hard earned money on that holiday. We were already in Hervey Bay and then had to lockdown/isolate because Brisbane went into lockdown.

I could not visit my parents in Sydney for quite sometime. They could not see their granddaughter for 12 months.

We were in Sydney in April 2021 and left just before that person was discovered in Eastern Suburbs with covid. He'd been to Mascot near where we were staying. We were panicking we'd have to quarantine returning back.to Gold Coast.

My wife was stuck in Australia for just over 2 years. She was extremely homesick.

We all learnt to cope. That's what anyone who is faced with difficult situation does. Adapt.

I'd hate to see a 6 year global war. Most in Australia would not survive if we were seriously affected.

The fact that you use that as a comparison with what people in Melbourne experienced really does show there is a lack of understanding of what they went through.

Pretty much every family I know in every state missed once off important events, births, deaths, funerals and weddings. Let alone estrangement from family for years on end. Homesickness. Unemployment. Bankruptcy.

I think we have all been adaptable but forget the masks unless it bothers you. We've adapted to the virus being here forever.

 

[marki]

We are paying a big but virtually silent price for these restrictions.

Crickets, and what about all those pilots, including Qantas Pilots who exercised bodily autonomy and authority, decided against the jab? No work and the fights in the courtroom have begun, and I have seen apologies already. Watch from 53 onwards.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What absolute rubbish. The problems with cancer screening was due to lockdowns and isolation.

Lockdowns would have had the biggest impact on cancer screenings and other elective surgery. But I’m not sure we have the luxury to be selective and dismiss missed screenings now because it suits a ‘no mask’ agenda?

Either we are concerned about missed screenings, or not. The 30 patients who miss out this week have just as much relevance as the thousands that missed out during lockdowns.