Free Qantas lounge pass for 18-35yo travellers in QF Y (Book by 31/8/19, travel by 29/2/20)

[MEL_Traveller]

In this promotion, QF are waiving the standard access rules for a certain group of passengers subject to them purchasing an eligible flight.

Exactly. They are waiving the access rules for a group of people that I am excluded from, based solely on my age.

Age is one of the matters covered by discrimination law unless you qualify for an exemption. One exemption is an ‘identified need’, but there are others.

Here there doesn’t appear to be grounds for an exemption (whether identified need or other), so that raises the issue of potential discrimination, based on age.

 

[Guvner]

Why is it that Qantas go out of their way to make these offers confusing?

The headline paragraph states: By invitation only for flyers aged 18-35 years, simply register and book an Economy seat on any international Qantas-operated flight with a QF flight number by 31 August 2019*

Then the * condition is: This offer is valid by invitation only and when you register and make a new booking on an Eligible Flight between 12.01am (AEST) 25 May and 11.59pm (AEST) 31 August 2019 and travel between 1 June 2019 and 29 February 2020. An Eligible Flight means an international Qantas-operated flight with a QF flight number in an economy cabin. Flights operated by carriers other than Qantas are not eligible for this offer.

Nowhere in the headline paragraphs does it state that your "any" Qantas flight has to depart from Australia.
In the FAQ it states:

What flights are eligible for this offer? What if I’m flying on Jetstar or Emirates?
You must be travelling on an international Qantas-operated flight with a QF flight number in Economy – this means Jetstar, Emirates and other partner airline flights are not eligible for this offer. Your departing flight can be any time between 1 June 2019 and 29 February 2020, as long as you book at least 7 days prior to travel and include your QFF number in your booking.

Can I also use the lounge pass in an overseas lounge on my return trip back to Australia?
No. Complimentary Lounge Invitations can only be used once, and for this promotion it must be linked to an eligible lounge from your port of departure in Australia.


So you can only use it on an outbound flight, therefore can only use it in Australia? So not "any international Qantas-operated" flight then?


So look further down in the T's & C's:
Each Complimentary Lounge Pass entitles one-person entry and excludes guests or children. The Complimentary Lounge Pass can only be used at the Australia port of departure where an eligible international lounge is located. Eligible Qantas Lounges are located in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide and Darwin. Complimentary Lounge Pass must be linked at least 24 hours before departure. You can find out more on how to link your lounge pass.

How hard is it to put this fairly limiting condition up in the main body of the promotion? If they did, then it might not actually be a Frequently Asked Question in the first place.

 

[Mattg]

I'd also like to know why they included Adelaide and Darwin in the list of eligible lounge locations, considering there are no Qantas international flights from either of those airports.

 

[Zanzara]

This is an interesting promotion.

If a demographic survey was undertaken of QF vs VA lounge users (or passengers in general) it would IMHO be pretty obvious and clear that the average age of QF passengers were significantly older than those of Virgin.

Qantas are pushing the boundaries trying to appeal to a younger target market and grow market share than they have previously. They can offer this to differentiate themselves with other international airlines they compete with. It doesn't cost them that much.

Before Virgin tried to become a posher, more mature version than they were, they had a significantly hip and trendier and younger image than they do now. It's obvious that Qantas need to (and want to) expand their market share and appeal to younger people - especially those that are not price sensitive bottom feeders who will still go to Qantas - but via Jetstar.

It's changing, but whenever I go into a Qantas Club or lounge I'm amazed at how much older the majority of passengers are (compared to Virgin).

 

[jch]

Just one month to go.... (for me)....

 

[trippin_the_rift]

You guys overthink it.

Down at QF HQ, it went something similar to this...

Marketing Head: HEY I saw this show on SBS last night about millennials spending their parent's money on useless stuff
Marketing Head: TEAM - STOP WHAT UR DOING AND THINK! How do we get these millennials to fly with us overseas.... especially when there are more reliable, higher frequency, more rewarding, cooler and cheaper airlines for them to fly with?
Marketing Intern: Me n my frenz only care about booze... I want free booze on my flight to Bali
Marketing Head: BINGO! Lounge access! Free Lounge access drink all you want!
Marketing Intern: YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! brb lemme tiktok this to ma frenz
Marketing Head: OK STOP THE RADIO AND BILLBOARD SPEND. ALL BUDGET FOR NEXT MONTH GOES INTO FREE LOUNGE FOR MILLENIALS

... later that day in the board room...

CMO: ......... and that's our "millennials re-engagement strategy"

Entire Room: *standing ovation*

 

[Guvner]

You guys overthink it.

Down at QF HQ, it went something similar to this...

Marketing Head: HEY I saw this show on SBS last night about millennials spending their parent's money on useless stuff
Marketing Head: TEAM - STOP WHAT UR DOING AND THINK! How do we get these millennials to fly with us overseas.... especially when there are more reliable, higher frequency, more rewarding, cooler and cheaper airlines for them to fly with?
Marketing Intern: Me n my frenz only care about booze... I want free booze on my flight to Bali
Marketing Head: BINGO! Lounge access! Free Lounge access drink all you want!
Marketing Intern: YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! brb lemme tiktok this to ma frenz
Marketing Head: OK STOP THE RADIO AND BILLBOARD SPEND. ALL BUDGET FOR NEXT MONTH GOES INTO FREE LOUNGE FOR MILLENIALS

... later that day in the board room...

CMO: ......... and that's our "millennials re-engagement strategy"

Entire Room: *standing ovation*

Business Analyst: points out that only Melbourne and Sydney have Qantas flights to Bali.
CMO: sacks Business Analyst.

 

[Ade]

I have many friends in their early 20's that have never been inside an airport lounge. I think this promotion would appeal to them greatly and may help to generate longer-term loyalty to Qantas if they enjoy their lounge experience. (And honestly, most young people who have never been in an airport lounge would think it's amazing - even if frequent flyers might think otherwise.)

So true and I can very well relate to this statement. I'm <32 yo and I'm a QF Gold. None of my mates have any status nor do they fly often to get status w/ any airline. And all of them envy the lounge access I've got and the additional baggage allowance (all of my mates, except me are married and appreciate any additional baggage allowance so they could bring a lot from overseas).

They think that the experience of being in an Intl J lounge is awesome, especially w/ free booze

I can understand why QF is doing this and giving people a taste of comfort and luxury, which otherwise wouldn't be available for those without status/club memberships.

A welcome move, except for the fact that lounges will now be overcrowded during peak hours and booze bottles will need to refilled, say every 5 minutes

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The question ade is whether, once they have this 'one off' experience, will they then drop $800 for QF club membership (first year, including joining fee)?

 

[Ade]

The question ade is whether, once they have this 'one off' experience, will they then drop $800 for QF club membership (first year, including joining fee)?

Most likely not

Taking my mates as an example, I'm sure none of them would be happy to part with $800 for a club membership, so that they can gain access to and relax in lounges.

However, IMHO, this promotion would show them what they could get by being a QFF and motivate the <35 yo's to fly frequently (read always) with QF in the future and get status, so that they can enjoy the lounge (in addition to other benefits)

The return on investment of this promotion will not be achieved in the next few months, instead would serve as a base to build customer loyalty by inducing/catalyzing the next generation of frequent flyers.

And the thing w/ us, <35 yo's, is that we do a lot of things just because our mates do it. So if anyone in the friends circle is onboard w/ flying QF for all their trips (even if it's very little in a membership year), chances are, all, if not some of the mates would follow suit

I know this because, when we plan a trip with my mates, we always fly QF and I influence them do so

 

[Vic]

Exactly. They are waiving the access rules for a group of people <snip>

No they are not waiving the access rules for a group, They are giving out a lounge pass, something that is well within the current access rules. A lounge pass that gives access just like anyone else with a lounge pass can get access. You are not losing anything, you are not being disadvantaged. You are perfectly entitled to go off and get your own access pass for the qantas lounge, they give these away all the time via various pathways.

In fact, limited the use of this access pass to only Australian lounges is discrimination (based on age) compared to other lounge passess that can be used at some overseas ports.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No they are not waiving the access rules for a group, They are giving out a lounge pass, something that is well within the current access rules. A lounge pass that gives access just like anyone else with a lounge pass can get access. You are not losing anything, you are not being disadvantaged. You are perfectly entitled to go off and get your own access pass for the qantas lounge, they give these away all the time via various pathways.

In fact, limited the use of this access pass to only Australian lounges is discrimination (based on age) compared to other lounge passess that can be used at some overseas ports.

Likewise, if we accept this is giving a lounge pass, then they are giving a lounge pass to a group of people but excluding me, solely because of my age. I don't hink it matters which way they cut this. A service/bonus/gift is being offered to some people. But not others. The sole distinguishing factor is age. And this particular issue doesn't appear to fall within any exemption?

 

[getluv]

Likewise, if we accept this is giving a lounge pass, then they are giving a lounge pass to a group of people but excluding me, solely because of my age. I don't hink it matters which way they cut this. A service/bonus/gift is being offered to some people. But not others. The sole distinguishing factor is age. And this particular issue doesn't appear to fall within any exemption?

Pensioners get free entry to the local museum. The distinguishing factor here is also age. By your logic I should be lodging a complaint with the Human Rights Commission.

Please move on.

 

[Vic]

Likewise, if we accept this is giving a lounge pass, then they are giving a lounge pass to a group of people but excluding me, solely because of my age. I don't hink it matters which way they cut this. A service/bonus/gift is being offered to some people. But not others. The sole distinguishing factor is age. And this particular issue doesn't appear to fall within any exemption?

Lounge passes are selective given out to lots of different groups. You're not being excluded from getting a lounge pass. You're not being excluded from entering a lounge. Other people are being given something - NOTHING is being taken from you. There is no disadvantage to you.

Definitely time for you to move on.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Pensioners get free entry to the local museum. The distinguishing factor here is also age. By your logic I should be lodging a complaint with the Human Rights Commission.

Please move on.

As pointed out above, there are exemptions from age discrimination. These are based on an identified need, or to comply with any applicable laws.

Offering discounts to pensioners or students, or families with children will likely fall within the 'identified need' category (that is, lower income). Other age discrimination, such as refusing entry to a venue, may also be legal if alcohol is served and the person is under 18.

Offering luxury lounge facilities doesnt appear, at first instance, to meet any of the categories to apply for an exemption.

Here we have a case where two people buy the exact same product. This could be at the same time, for the same price, with all the same terms and conditions. However one person is offered a free lounge pass and the other is not. The reason the second person is refused the lounge pass is solely because of their age.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

Why does this "identified need" argument remind me of the "couple selects A and C and ends up switching with an individual so that he or she doesn't need to sit in B but oh the trauma that he or she is forced to endure in the meantime" argument?

 

[Vic]

Here we have a case where two people buy the exact same product. This could be at the same time, for the same price, with all the same terms and conditions. However one person is offered a free lounge pass and the other is not. The reason the second person is refused the lounge pass is solely because of their age.

how can you be refused something that you were never eligible to have? Qantas are just changing the eligibility rules for a lounge pass. Using your logic I could claim I was refused a lounge pass because I didn't apply for XYZ credit card.
what have you lost? NOTHING

 

[MEL_Traveller]

how can you be refused something that you were never eligible to have? Qantas are just changing the eligibility rules for a lounge pass. Using your logic I could claim I was refused a lounge pass because I didn't apply for XYZ credit card.
what have you lost? NOTHING

As you point out - anyone can apply for the credit card. There are no restrictions based on age except those imposed by the law.

It's not that you have been refused something that you were never eleigible to have, but rather, the potential discrimination comes in preventing your eligiblity in the first place.

 

[nodabs]

Most likely not

Taking my mates as an example, I'm sure none of them would be happy to part with $800 for a club membership, so that they can gain access to and relax in lounges.

However, IMHO, this promotion would show them what they could get by being a QFF and motivate the <35 yo's to fly frequently (read always) with QF in the future and get status, so that they can enjoy the lounge (in addition to other benefits)

The return on investment of this promotion will not be achieved in the next few months, instead would serve as a base to build customer loyalty by inducing/catalyzing the next generation of frequent flyers.

And the thing w/ us, <35 yo's, is that we do a lot of things just because our mates do it. So if anyone in the friends circle is onboard w/ flying QF for all their trips (even if it's very little in a membership year), chances are, all, if not some of the mates would follow suit

I know this because, when we plan a trip with my mates, we always fly QF and I influence them do so

Pretty much this, late twenties is realistically when people will start travelling for work and start wanting to be more comfortable doing so or getting the funds to start caring more about how they travel personally. Planting the seed earlier to inspirational travelers will work, and realistically the kinds of people that read the T&C's enough to get this are probably more likely to be the ones that are the target market.

I'm 34 now but started travelling for work in my late 20's, bought a QC membership on my own after getting a CC invitation (which kicked off my lounge obsession) work paid for the next year then I hit gold which I've maintained, including last years self funded since. That the combination of work travel and that first invite has directed not insignificant spend to QF over the last few years.

 

[getluv]

As you point out - anyone can apply for the credit card. There are no restrictions based on age except those imposed by the law.

It's not that you have been refused something that you were never eleigible to have, but rather, the potential discrimination comes in preventing your eligiblity in the first place.

There are many laws in play here. According to the dictionary, it is discrimination, but entering an airline lounge or applying for a reality show is not a service hence where other laws allow for the discrimination to occur.

As pointed out above, there are exemptions from age discrimination. These are based on an identified need, or to comply with any applicable laws.

Offering discounts to pensioners or students, or families with children will likely fall within the 'identified need' category (that is, lower income). Other age discrimination, such as refusing entry to a venue, may also be legal if alcohol is served and the person is under 18.

Offering luxury lounge facilities doesnt appear, at first instance, to meet any of the categories to apply for an exemption.

Here we have a case where two people buy the exact same product. This could be at the same time, for the same price, with all the same terms and conditions. However one person is offered a free lounge pass and the other is not. The reason the second person is refused the lounge pass is solely because of their age.

The terms and conditions are the same for both people, whereby if you do not hold status or hold a QF Club membership, you are not entitled to use the QF Lounge. The QF ticket you purchase is for them to provide you with transportation services from A-B on the flight you selected.

There is however another set of terms and conditions for the passenger who registered for the promotion that allows them to enter the QF Lounge, which provides them with a lounge pass to enter. The second person was not refused a lounge pass because they were not eligible. A person who is eligible for the promotion, but did not accept the terms and conditions, will not receive a pass.

Anyway, I'm done. You're not comprehending anything.