Flexi Fares, Not So Much!

[simongr]

I am not sure - I left it to the Platinum desk to deal with it and they did.

 

[MarkD]

Sounds like a fair deal to me as the routing had changed


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[bigbadbyrnes]

Alright lads,

Got myself into an identical situation as the OP, booked flights on DJ738 returning DJ755 (which is OOL->MEL return, departing Monday 1:45pm and Thurs 6:40pm respectively), original cost each way $209.

Looking to change the flights from late Jan to mid March, same flights on the same days of the week, looked up the flexi fares for those days, they are $198 each way for flexi, so I think to myself 'you beauty, no fare difference, thus changing them should be free'. Go to change in 'manage my bookings', find the same exact flights are an extra $51 each way, leaping up to $249.

What?

So although there is 'no fee' for changes, you are up for an extra $80 to change the flights... that isn't a fee apparently. A rose by another name would smell just as dodgy. This is the same cost as cancelling the flight anyway, so I would be a few bucks better off cancelling and rebooking to the flights I want booking flexi. Really should have booked saver fares, as they are in effect more flexible (if you judge the flexibility of a flight by the cost associated with changing the ticket).

This does seem messed up - like an error. Is contacting the GCC worth a shot as a Platinum member??

From reading the thread, there doesn't seem to be a definitive response to the OP's query. Now, I'm off to read the 'what's the point of flexi?' threads...

 

[Justinf]

I take it that the difference between a cancellation on a flexi compared to a saver is that you get a refund rather than a credit that can be used at a later date?
I have had to cancel a few saver fares and it's barely worth it. A $100 saver fare, minus the $60 change fee, minus the $15 telephone fee (note how they won't let you rebook on the net, it has to be via the call centre, to sting you that extra $15) leaves you with a credit of $15.
If the same fare on a flexi is, say, $200, then you get a refund of $120 back into your credit card account after you take away the $80 cancellation fee.
I guess that's the difference?

 

[serfty]

Actually, the fees have changed.

It's now $100 ($80 online) cancel fee for a flexi and, if you want a refund to your credit card (rather than use the balance as credit) there's an additional $100 refund fee!:shock:

Domestic Fees and Surcharges | Virgin Australia

 

[medhead]

Alright lads,

Got myself into an identical situation as the OP, booked flights on DJ738 returning DJ755 (which is OOL->MEL return, departing Monday 1:45pm and Thurs 6:40pm respectively), original cost each way $209.

Looking to change the flights from late Jan to mid March, same flights on the same days of the week, looked up the flexi fares for those days, they are $198 each way for flexi, so I think to myself 'you beauty, no fare difference, thus changing them should be free'. Go to change in 'manage my bookings', find the same exact flights are an extra $51 each way, leaping up to $249.

What?

I'm pretty sure there is a rule that you can't change to a lower value fare. Your original fare was $209, hence you should have to change to $209 or more not $198. It sounds like it is taking the lowest fare that meets this requirement regardless of any applicable fees.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[awilcockson]

Actually, the fees have changed.

It's now $100 ($80 online) cancel fee for a flexi and, if you want a refund to your credit card (rather than use the balance as credit) there's an additional $100 refund fee!:shock:

Domestic Fees and Surcharges | Virgin Australia

Wow

And not in a good way ...

 

[bigbadbyrnes]

I'm pretty sure there is a rule that you can change to a lower value fare. Your original fare was $209, hence you should have to change to $209 or more not $198. It sounds like it is taking the lowest fare that meets this requirement regardless of any applicable fees.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

I'm assuming you mean 'can't' change to a lower value fare - be that all as it may, it's out of order. How flexible is a flexi fare if you can't even change it to the same flexifare ticket on the same flight in the future?

 

[notzac]

Wow. Am wondering if this could be classified as misleading advertising? A reasonable person might believe that a flexi fare is actually flexible/refundable, in line with what many other airlines offer for a flexible fare..

 

[Justinf]

Actually, the fees have changed.

It's now $100 ($80 online) cancel fee for a flexi and, if you want a refund to your credit card (rather than use the balance as credit) there's an additional $100 refund fee!:shock:

Domestic Fees and Surcharges | Virgin Australia

Well that proves my theory wrong. That is extortion.

 

[medhead]

I'm assuming you mean 'can't' change to a lower value fare - be that all as it may, it's out of order. How flexible is a flexi fare if you can't even change it to the same flexifare ticket on the same flight in the future?

Yes I meant can't.

Just telling you the way it is. Couple of points. Do you expect them to refund $11 each way? How do you know it is the same fare? Multiple fare class come under the flexi grouping, I haven't worked out how to find the fare class of a booking with VA, before getting the boarding pass.


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[bigbadbyrnes]

Well I'm hoping my Platinum status can get me out of trouble on this one, but I fail to understand how it would be a better decision to book a flexi fare over a saver fare. What are you paying a premium for? The premium is a big one and the status credits are a bit, but not much, the food is a plus, but not a big plus (if you're hungry, you can still buy off the menu, it's not as good, but it's still better value than forking out for flexi), and even if you miss your flight, if that only happens once in a blue moon, you're better off forfeiting the cancellation fee on your saver ticket and re-ticketing at check-in (or online if you've got the time).

I fail to understand what the product is or how it's worth it. Please help.

 

[bigbadbyrnes]

Yes I meant can't.

Just telling you the way it is. Couple of points. Do you expect them to refund $11 each way? How do you know it is the same fare? Multiple fare class come under the flexi grouping, I haven't worked out how to find the fare class of a booking with VA, before getting the boarding pass.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

1. Of course not, just change the flights for zero $ as per the whole 'no fee for changes', 'pay fare difference' thing you buy a flexi ticket for.

2. No idea how to know what fare it is or what fares are available - fare class isn't obvious from the itinerary, but it's a flexi fare.

 

[medhead]

1. Of course not, just change the flights for zero $ as per the whole 'no fee for changes', 'pay fare difference' thing you buy a flexi ticket for.

2. No idea how to know what fare it is or what fares are available - fare class isn't obvious from the itinerary, but it's a flexi fare.

1. You mention pay the fare difference. In your case there is a -$11 fare difference. That is not a fee for changing. Basically the airline has a equal of high fare rule because they don't want to refund a negative fare difference.

2. Looking at my historical saver fares they have been the following fare classes E, F, N, R for example. Each fare class determines the price. Flexi fares similarly book into a number of fare classes. Without knowing the fare class letter you can't know if it is really booking intoning same fare. It is not as simple as flexi fare. This is a problem with both VA and QF of putting fares under various groupings.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[anat0l]

There's actually no text I can find on the fare information on Virgin's website that says you must change fares into an equal or higher priced fare. I know Qantas has this in their detailed fare information (i.e. not the summary table, you need to open up one fare info box). Is it somewhere else on the site / on the printed itinerary?

People who are not used to flexible fares need to know about the equal-or-higher-fare rule. I suppose this also applies in the event one would want to change a Saver fare - they also need to know. In addition, does the equal-or-higher-fare rule also apply if you cancel a fare and then later use the stored credit?


I guess what this all says is that your fare is likely to be more flexible (i.e. likelihood of a smaller fare difference compared to starting with a Saver) and having a last resort, you can get your money back with a hit, but it comes at a consequential cost. (I suppose for those expensing a corporate account, these fees are justifiable risks to get away with, rather than purchasing the Saver in the first place.)

On the other hand with Qantas, if you get a Flexi Saver then you can still possibly get stung with an equal-or-higher-fare, though the change fee is $0. A Fully Flexible further minimises the risk of getting stung (it's not fully immune, as there are two booking classes for Fully Flexible IIRC - H and Y (or B and Y) - so if you booked the lower one and there aren't any of that bucket left, you'll pay a difference to the higher one. Booking a true Y bucket fare gives maximum flexibility.) Both QF Flexi Saver and Fully Flexible have no cancellation fees (and Fully Flexible fares can be fully refunded; Flexi Savers can only go to credit). In saying that, both of these fares are, on average, considerably more expensive than a DJ Flexi Fare.


Guess this is life's way of telling you that you can't always have it your way......

 

[Noob]

In depth comparison of flexi fares from QF,DJ and JQ on AusBT - Flexible fare comparison: Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

Virgin looks like they offer the best value according to this, and the references they provide.

 

[bigbadbyrnes]

People who are not used to flexible fares need to know about the equal-or-higher-fare rule. I suppose this also applies in the event one would want to change a Saver fare - they also need to know. In addition, does the equal-or-higher-fare rule also apply if you cancel a fare and then later use the stored credit?


I guess what this all says is that your fare is likely to be more flexible (i.e. likelihood of a smaller fare difference compared to starting with a Saver) and having a last resort, you can get your money back with a hit, but it comes at a consequential cost. (I suppose for those expensing a corporate account, these fees are justifiable risks to get away with, rather than purchasing the Saver in the first place.)



Guess this is life's way of telling you that you can't always have it your way......

This is where I have no understanding of the product.

Flexi fares come at a large additional cost to standard saver fares. So you pay a bit more as a bit of 'insurance' (so to speak) in case you have to change your flights.

What I can't figure out is how often you'd be better off to have a flexi over a saver?

In the situation I'm in, I've actually got to change two identical flights, one a saver, the other a flexi, and the saver fare is going to work out $60 cheaper to change than the flexi. That's $60 cheaper to change than the flexi fare, even though the flexi fare was an additional $140 to book originally.

The saver OOL->MEL return was $287.
I'll need to cancel the flight, forfeiting $60, will receive credit for $227. On the new dates, the return saver fare will be $238. So applying the credit of $227 leaves a difference of $11, add $9 for the credit card fee on the difference, and the out of pocket cost to change the ticket will be $20, a final total cost of $307.

The flexi was $427.
If I change the flight per the website 'manage my booking' the cost will be an additional $80 (charging $249 each way, plus $9 credit card fee), so the total cost of the flight comes to $507.

Even if I wanted to change the flights to later this week (trying to nut out the worst case scenario, when flexi would be a real advantage), changing the flights to flying down Thurs, back on Sunday, the flexi ticket would incur an additional cost of $200 vs. the saver $190. So the total cost of the flexi ticket changed to late this week would increase to $627 vs the saver at $477.

Is this unusual? Due to the substantial additional cost it seems to me that you're better off wearing the forfeit of $60 under a saver fare in the instance you have to cancel the flight vs. getting lucky with being able to change flexi flights to a fare of the same value.

I'm seriously not trying to be a smart alec or anything, I just can't see how flying under a flexi fare, even if you were frequently rescheduling flights, works out to be beneficial.

The only circumstances I can imagine would be it being an advantage in would be if you had to change the same flight a number of times, not something that we, thankfully, have to do. This is actually only the second time I've had to change flights.

I appreciate everyone's postings trying to 'tell it like it is' (because, as Anat pointed out, VA's website doesn't). Am I making sense or have I gone completely mad?

 

[medhead]

I don't remember ever changing a VA fare. But I'll make the comment that you don't pay a second card fee when changing with QF. I guess they recognise the first fee and carry it over. Is VA the same?

The situation does seem crazy to me as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[anat0l]

In depth comparison of flexi fares from QF,DJ and JQ on AusBT - Flexible fare comparison: Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

Virgin looks like they offer the best value according to this, and the references they provide.

Some small inconsistencies there.

Firstly, it's a big caveat having Qantas Fully Flexible in that list. It easily beats both "change flights" and "refunds", as you can literally do nothing with the fare and at any time you want you can still get a refund or change it to another flight. Also, name changes for QF Fully Flexi is allowed with no fee (though same rules - must book into available inventory without including the original ticket, but at the Y level that's fairly simple).

Virgin Flexi does beat Qantas Flexi Saver as you must cancel a QF Flexi Saver before departure otherwise you will forfeit the entire fare. At least Virgin Flexi gives you a 24 hour "safe time" after departure so you can collect your thoughts and change away. It's a bit dubious to argue whether the cancel / refund is better than one another, because although Qantas Flexi Savers can't be refunded fully into cash, Virgin Flexis can only be put into credit just like Qantas unless you want to cough up (cancellation at $80 online or $100 through Call Centre, with a further $100 for original payment method refund). Apart from time limits, it's a dead heat on this one; when Qantas Fully Flexi is factored in then of course it wins on this one.

In the end though we know Qantas Fully Flexible is the most expensive of the four selections (by and large - let's not get into anecdotes), so a more reasonable comparison would be Qantas Flexi Saver vs. Virgin Flexi. In this case, Virgin Flexi probably tops out.

One thing I do find a bit dubious is if you check in for a Virgin flight, your rights to refunds or credit are removed (including Business fares), but in the end I guess it's not a big deal (checking in is a gesture which indicates your intention to fly).

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'm seriously not trying to be a smart alec or anything, I just can't see how flying under a flexi fare, even if you were frequently rescheduling flights, works out to be beneficial.

Am I making sense or have I gone completely mad?

As far as I can tell, you're neither mad nor a smart alec.

I've been using saver (previously Go!Fares) for years now and I've never really been able to see the benefit in flexis! 2010 was a telling year for me, having to "miss" up to a dozen flights due to a busy work commitment. Admittedly, the Go!Fares were generally far cheaper then, but it was not even worth changing the fare and paying the penalty......I just forfeited them and each time, I was able to do that and get a replacement fare for under the cost of the flexi fare. I still can't see the benefit of flexis, though they have reduced in price (comparitively to saver).