DONE4 'Split' Itinerary Possible? | Australian Frequent Flyer
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DONE4 'Split' Itinerary Possible?

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BVO

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First post, so first a word of thanks to the contributors here, over the past months, suggestions gleaned from aff have saved me many hours+, improved the must-fly-for-work experience –not to mention reaping SC’s etc. that previously added no value at all!

I am trying to split a prospective DONE4 itinerary ex-CMB across ASIA/EU/SWP/NA or ASIA/NA/SWP/EU, with the break in SWP. The general direction is Asia initially, stopover NRT & BKK, then EU or NA, with the return transiting Asia to SWP, then resuming the ‘second half’ with SWP-NA or EU, terminating in BKK. Is this possible?


What I need to get crystal clear is reconciling the transit rules and the various statements (Oneworld.com etc.) around moving in a ‘continuous Eastwards or Westwards direction’ and the ‘continents are counted even if you only change planes there (eg. stopping in Asia on a flight from Europe to Australia)’ I can see from the various FAQ etc. here and on FT that a split itinerary must be achievable, could anyone provide have any guidance in this matter?

Any suggestions would be most gratefully received…..

Cheers
 

NM

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No, you cannot do it as you have posted. But you can break the journey in SWP. You also do need to understand the rules regarding stopovers and sectors for each continent. Some points to remember:

1. The "continuous eastward/westward travel" is only between regions, of which there are only three. Basically SWP and Asia are one region, North and South America are another, and Europe and Africa is the third. You must move between these regions in a continuous direction. That is, you can go region 1, then 2, then back to 1 and then 3.

So in your case for a DONE4, your options are Asia-Europe-NA-SWP-Asia or Asia-NA-Europe-SWP-Asia. You cannot come back to SWP (same region as Asia) until you have done Europe and NA. You must cross both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, and each only once.

2. If you start in CMB, you need to finish there also. Apart from a few exceptions noted in the fare rules, you must finish in the same country as you commence. This can be a problem for Asia since your options for travel inside Asia are quite limited with most places requiring a transit through HKG using two of your four available segments.

So for a start in CMB and want to include stopovers in NRT and BKK, you need two sectors CMB-HKG-NRT, and then you need to save another HKG-CMB for the end of the trip (there is no intercontinental option on OneWorld into CMB), so you only have one more Asia segment available, and the only place you get to inside Asia from NRT is back to HKG. So BKK is not going to fit. You cannot purchase extra segments in your continent of origin.

3. There are lots of ways to optimise your journey. Let us know what is important to you (QF FF points, QF Status Credits, AA Miles etc) and we can help optimise the routing.
 

serfty

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An actual Example may help

G'day BVO and welcome to AFF.

An actual Example may help here.

I'm commencing a similar xONE4 next month. As a rough outline I am doing it in 5½ 'trip's with 3 positioning journies. I too live in MEL.

Pos 1: MEL-SIN-CMB: Pick up Tickets.

Trip 1: [ASIA] CMB-HKG-NRT-HKG-AKL-MEL (Oct '05)

Trip 2: [SWP#1] MEL-PER

Pos 2a: PER-MEL (Oct '05)
Pos 2b: MEL-PER (Dec '05)

Trip 3: [SWP#2] PER-CNS*-MEL (Dec'05)

Trip 4: [EUR] MEL-LHR-DXB-LHR-LAX (Mar '06)

Pos 3a: LAX-MEL (Mar '06)
Pos 3b: MEL-LAX (Jun '06)

Trip 5: [N/A] LAX-DFW-SEA-DFW-ANC-DFW-JFK-HKG (Jun 06)

Pos 4a: HKG-MEL (Jun '06)
Pos 4b: MEL-HKG (Oct '06)

Trip 6½: HKG-CMB-<new xONEx> (Oct '06. Pick up tickets for new trip, with first part ending back in MEL)

I am thinking of splitting it in DXB as well, but I'll decide next year.

(* you can no longer do this due to recent rule changes but you could do -DRW- instead of CNS)
 

BVO

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Thanks NM & serfty – that explains why this itin was not quite coming together– the three regions rule. As you have both confirmed - I just could not see how to separate NA & Europe legs into two ‘trips’, without a linking flight external to the ONE. Now I can see this is viable,I can cancel/reissue as required the Dec MEL-BKK awards for this period.

The terminate in CMB requirement will work fine, I see the limitations out of continent of origin due to the need to retain segments for return to destination. But NM when you say 'the only place you get to inside Asia from NRT is back to HKG' - For the initial Asia leg, ex-CMB, why could I not do CMB-NRT on cx7-710, and then NRT-BKK on cx509-521 ?

The itin and routing serfty posted highlight that the best avenue forward here is that I a) factor in at least one additional linking flight either Europe-SWP or NA-SWP and b) develop (and post) an adapted routing based on your most helpful responses. For linking flights, this may be where the May25 one-way zone awards get beneficial for me.....

serfty, any reccoms re: CMB TAs online? I have combed the usual places,but no joy...or are you using cx 'direct' out of CMB?

This tkt is 95% leisure pure & simple, the only fixed commitments are BKK Feb 06 and Feb 07 and an LHR/UK stop, so in terms of airline-use priority, the objective is solid, SC-maximising routings in all continents bar Asia, where options are reduced, and FF points to keep awards rolling meantime. Any scrutiny available for a routing I post here would be appreciated...

Now I know this can be done, Cheers...
 

NM

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BVO said:
The terminate in CMB requirement will work fine, I see the limitations out of continent of origin due to the need to retain segments for return to destination. But NM when you say 'the only place you get to inside Asia from NRT is back to HKG' - For the initial Asia leg, ex-CMB, why could I not do CMB-NRT on cx7-710, and then NRT-BKK on cx509-521 ?
The only OneWorld flight from CMB are CX700, which operates Sun, Mon, Wed, Fri departing 2:45am, or CX710, which operates Sat, Tue, Thu departing at 1am. Both of these flights terminate at HKG and you will need to connect to a different HKG-NRT flight such as CX500 or CX508. Since these are a different flight number, the trip CMB-HKG-NRT involves two segments even it HKG is only a transit.

The same goes for NRT-BKK, which is always two flight numbers being NRT-HKG-BKK and so consumes two segments in the itinerary.
 

BVO

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NM said:
BVO said:
The terminate in CMB requirement will work fine, I see the limitations out of continent of origin due to the need to retain segments for return to destination. But NM when you say 'the only place you get to inside Asia from NRT is back to HKG' - For the initial Asia leg, ex-CMB, why could I not do CMB-NRT on cx7-710, and then NRT-BKK on cx509-521 ?
The only OneWorld flight from CMB are CX700, which operates Sun, Mon, Wed, Fri departing 2:45am, or CX710, which operates Sat, Tue, Thu departing at 1am. Both of these flights terminate at HKG and you will need to connect to a different HKG-NRT flight such as CX500 or CX508. Since these are a different flight number, the trip CMB-HKG-NRT involves two segments even it HKG is only a transit.

The same goes for NRT-BKK, which is always two flight numbers being NRT-HKG-BKK and so consumes two segments in the itinerary.
Ahh..got you now - two segments it is, so the Asia piece is going to be really quite limited indeed, given the need to retain the final BKK-CMB segment, it is almost down to a choice between dropping NRT or BKK - no workarounds out there at all, NM?
 

QF WP

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Now Reyla, you're casting aspersions over BVO rather candidly for your second post on this Forum, aren't you??

You go a little too far with the "time" and "job" comments - I'd be careful that you don't go the same way as others have on this Forum.

I actually think he has a better grasp of the fare rules than me!! Hell, I don't even bother trying to get my head around all the rules of those complex fares (that's what I have friends like NM and others to help me work them out :wink: - I know my limitations).
 

BVO

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Reyla, take a breather prior to the next post, eh.....

Lindsay, I think I know, or rather 'recognise', Reyla...She Stalks Forums....frustrated...
 

NM

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BVO said:
no workarounds out there at all, NM?
Not really any workaround for this one, especially in Asia. The permitted segments and stopovers in the continent of origin are really included to allow you to make the necessary connections to/from an intercontinental gateway, rather than for getting to additional places in you home continent.

That is why they don't permit you to purchase additional segments in your continent of origin, while you can purchase additional segments for all other continents - up to the maximum of 20 for the itinerary.

With a OneWorld Explorer fare, the only choice is to purchase separate tickets for the extra sectors you need.

You could consider a OneWorld Global Explorer fare, which does not have a limit on the number of segments in each region, just a limit of 20 for the entire journey (and a maximum total mileage). It still has a restriction of a max of 2 stopovers in the region of origin.

The Global Explorer is generally considered more restrictive when it comes to optimising for QF SCs or FF Points, but does have some other benefits, including the ability to use some QF codeshares on non-OneWorld airlines in the South Pacific.
 

serfty

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BVO said:
... For linking flights, this may be where the May25 one-way zone awards get beneficial for me. ....
You could use some one way awards for some of the shorter sector (HKG-BKK is 14,000 QFF points + tlc). Or you might wish to go CMB-HKG then HKG-BKK-HKG on a cheapy fare (from around AU$370 inc. with CX), then HKG-NRT-etc on a continuance of your xONE4.

BVO said:
serfty, any reccoms re: CMB TAs online? I have combed the usual places,but no joy...or are you using cx 'direct' out of CMB?
You have PM :arrow: ! This is for the CX travel office in CMB (Actually they appear to be an agent for Cathay Pacific)
 

BVO

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serfty said:
You could use some one way awards for some of the shorter sector (HKG-BKK is 14,000 QFF points + tlc). Or you might wish to go CMB-HKG then HKG-BKK-HKG on a cheapy fare (from around AU$370 inc. with CX), then HKG-NRT-etc on a continuance of your xONE4.

Yep, these CX online deals are pretty appealing and will work in well, just chasing something similar West Coast US-SWP, for the second positioning journey.....i.e. I am now chasing a routing not too far from;
CMB-HKG-BKK-HKG-US?-ORD-ANC-ORD-MEX-DCA-LAX
with a side LAX-MEL-LAX. ..or LHR-MEL in between, dependent on best deal...
LAX-LHR-DXB-LHR-AGP-LHR-MEL-PER-DRW-MEL-BKK-CMB...

Obviously, this routing is a little bit out eg violates segment rules, connections dodgy....but it is getting there...I guess surface LHR-HEL-LHR counts as a segment?

Cheers....
 

cpl

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NM said:
1. The "continuous eastward/westward travel" is only between regions, of which there are only three. Basically SWP and Asia are one region, North and South America are another, and Europe and Africa is the third. You must move between these regions in a continuous direction. That is, you can go region 1, then 2, then back to 1 and then 3.
Would it be possible to do go to US from AU twice as long as always moving in one direction (eg always AU-North America-Europe-AU) and within the number of segments permitted? Or does it count how many times I would enter a different region?
 

JohnK

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Reyla_Lowup said:
:twisted:
Hmm interesting............

You hit six sixes in your first over.....

Followed up by 49 maidens...........
 

NM

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cpl said:
NM said:
1. The "continuous eastward/westward travel" is only between regions, of which there are only three. Basically SWP and Asia are one region, North and South America are another, and Europe and Africa is the third. You must move between these regions in a continuous direction. That is, you can go region 1, then 2, then back to 1 and then 3.
Would it be possible to do go to US from AU twice as long as always moving in one direction (eg always AU-North America-Europe-AU) and within the number of segments permitted? Or does it count how many times I would enter a different region?
If you read the next part of my original post, you will find this part:
NM said:
You must cross both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, and each only once.
So no, you cannot travel between SWP and NA twice since that would require you to cross the Pacific ocean twice. And yes, even travelling HKG-JFK is considered to be crossing the Pacific, even if you never actually fly directly over that body of water and technically you fly over the north Atlantic on that route.
 

cpl

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NM said:
cpl said:
Would it be possible to do go to US from AU twice as long as always moving in one direction (eg always AU-North America-Europe-AU) and within the number of segments permitted? Or does it count how many times I would enter a different region?
If you read the next part of my original post, you will find this part:
NM said:
You must cross both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, and each only once.
I noticed this bit but thought this is because otherwise, I'd be violating the one-direction requirement... clear now.

NM said:
And yes, even travelling HKG-JFK is considered to be crossing the Pacific, even if you never actually fly directly over that body of water and technically you fly over the north Atlantic on that route.
LOL. I'd like to see the Q rep's face if someone would start arguing like this :D
 
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