[Check in Staff not] Understanding QF/OW Tier Benefits.

[RichardMEL]

There is a lounge finder on the OneWorld website.

Which is fine, but may not tell the whole story if one has an entitlement to use an EK lounge or in some locations use specific lounges based on carrier agreements (eg: AF @ CDG when flying a QF codeshare on AF)

 

[Max Samuels]

In my experience, the lounge finder is also littered with inaccurate information. For example, there's no mention that the QR BKK lounge is out-of-bounds to anyone not in J or F on oneworld (i.e. Emeralds flying non-premium).

WTF????? How is that possible? Isn't that against the rules?
Well, the grapevine says QR is not long for oneworld.... good riddance I say. Back to your desert you go...

 

[Ade]

Well, the grapevine says QR is not long for oneworld.... good riddance I say. Back to your desert you go...

Really

First LATAM, now, possibly QR Want to try their Q-suites before they're out of OW

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Which is fine, but may not tell the whole story if one has an entitlement to use an EK lounge or in some locations use specific lounges based on carrier agreements (eg: AF @ CDG when flying a QF codeshare on AF)

Nothing is going to tell "the whole story" if you expect "the whole story" to include details of the benefits of every inter-airline arrangement inside and outside of alliances and their impact on you with your particular status in your particular frequent flyer programme on your particular ticket on your particular flight operated by a particular airline and marketed by a particular airline, from your particular departure point to your particular destination, transiting through particular airports on a particular date at a particular time.
The only person who can make that sort of detailed assessment is you, using the resources which are - or should be - made available to you.
It is reaosnable to expect such resources to be available and to be informative - subject to bvious constraints.
Obviously a OneWorld lounge finder is not going to be cognisant of interairline agreements outside the alliance.
I do not consider it reasonable to expect for example a CX checkin agent in HKG to know the details of the QF-EK agreement and its implications for all status levels of QFF members in all ports on all flights.
If you want to have access to a lounge before your flight, then fair enough, you should be entitled to expect a checkin agent to know of a lounge you can access, provide you with a lounge pass if your boarding pass itself is insufficient for access, and give you directions to the lounge and perhaps from the lounge to the gate.
If you want - as many do, myself included, so there is no judgement here - to access not just any lounge but "the best lounge" in a particular airport and you want to exploit the provisions of the OneWorld alliance and/or the QF/EK agreement or any other agreement to leverage your lounge access then I think the onus is on you to do some research about your additional entitlements over and above the default lounge offered by your carrier.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Which is fine, but may not tell the whole story if one has an entitlement to use an EK lounge or in some locations use specific lounges based on carrier agreements (eg: AF @ CDG when flying a QF codeshare

Incidentally as I think I may have observed elsewhere it seems impossible to get information from Qantas itself about lounge access in CDG!

 

[Max Samuels]

Incidentally as I think I may have observed elsewhere it seems impossible to get information from Qantas itself about lounge access in CDG!

YES! AGREE! I started a separate thread about QF/AF codeshare..... jeez louise! Getting info from QF website is like getting a good meal on JQ - impossible.

They don't advertise that the codeshare is only for Y & J - there is ZERO F inventory.
They give no info about CDG lounge access. The thing is a bloody joke and QF should be taking some of AJ's $26 million bonus to pay some who can deliver a better job at keeping their website updated....

 

[Ade]

Getting info from QF website is like getting a good meal on JQ - impossible.

 

[Max Samuels]

Nothing is going to tell "the whole story"...

Yeah it does. It's called software. And a 15yo student doing IT at high school could create the look-up tables and rules that would be required to determine lounge access based on tier and/or class of travel.

I can only speak to QF in this instance, but instead of feeding us all their marketing garbage on the website and app (I love it how it says on the app, when I go to check in the day before, and I am not in MEL yet, "MEL is 1,600km away in an Uber"..... not even intelligent enough to realise you are not in the same city!) Instead of all that rubbish, and in the same place it says "before you fly relax in the <whatever> lounge", it could just as easily list ALL the lounges you are entitled to....

Seriously QF - enough with your second rate IT sweatshop.

I'll do it for you - FOR FREE! Just so we can close this thread off

 

[RichardMEL]

If you want - as many do, myself included, so there is no judgement here - to access not just any lounge but "the best lounge" in a particular airport and you want to exploit the provisions of the OneWorld alliance and/or the QF/EK agreement or any other agreement to leverage your lounge access then I think the onus is on you to do some research about your additional entitlements over and above the default lounge offered by your carrier.

Agree totally. Well put.

And many of us DO know the better lounges, or what our status allows. Regular Joes may not but in their case being directed to the "most appropriate" lounge by an agent would be reasonable I think. For example, ex-LHR being directed to the QF lounge is perfectly reasonable even if CX is better for many pax. Or in SIN, where the EK lounge is much nicer than the QF zoo for QF flights* (subject to near opening of new F lounge) then again that is more local knowledge and I would not expect an agent to tell me that but to direct me to the QF lounge if I ask.

 

[mannej]

WTF????? How is that possible? Isn't that against the rules?
Well, the grapevine says QR is not long for oneworld.... good riddance I say. Back to your desert you go...

The grapevine as in Akbar Al Baker and his usual dummy spits?

 

[Max Samuels]

Agree totally. Well put.

And many of us DO know the better lounges, or what our status allows. Regular Joes may not but in their case being directed to the "most appropriate" lounge by an agent would be reasonable I think. For example, ex-LHR being directed to the QF lounge is perfectly reasonable even if CX is better for many pax. Or in SIN, where the EK lounge is much nicer than the QF zoo for QF flights* (subject to near opening of new F lounge) then again that is more local knowledge and I would not expect an agent to tell me that but to direct me to the QF lounge if I ask.

This doesn't make sense (at least to me).
If the onus is on the pax to know which lounges they have entry to (and therefore not requiring any knowledge of the airline check-in staff), then who's responsibilty is it to know the entry rules at the lounge?

If the airline doesn't train its check-in agents about full lounge access with all the permutations (because it is the pax responsibility), then would it be fair to say that said airline also doesn't train the lounge staff? I assume they have the same training manuals? Then when the "smart" pax arrive at the lounge they know they have access to (but weren't told at check-in), and are denied entry, who's fault is that???

 

[RichardMEL]

This doesn't make sense (at least to me).
If the onus is on the pax to know which lounges they have entry to (and therefore not requiring any knowledge of the airline check-in staff), then who's responsibilty is it to know the entry rules at the lounge?

Read my post again please.

1. I did not mention lounge staff. I mentioned check in. I also said thatI think it's appropriate for check in staff at a specific origin to give directions to the main lounge for the flight they are on. I even gave examples.

I do not consider it reasonable to expect a check in agent to know all the ins and outs and permutations involved with Class of Travel and/or Status benefits across multiple airlines.

2. I would expect lounge agents to be aware of entry requirements for THEIR lounge, or at least to be able to look them up in unusual situations. I had also made this comment earlier in this thread. As example, QF agents in AKL knowing as a QF WP I can access their "F" lounge with an EK boarding pass, or CX lounge agents in HKG F lounge(s) knowing that my status enables me access when flying on an AY J ticket. Both things I have done without incident multiple times.

If the airline doesn't train its check-in agents about full lounge access with all the permutations (because it is the pax responsibility), then would it be fair to say that said airline also doesn't train the lounge staff? I assume they have the same training manuals? Then when the "smart" pax arrive at the lounge they know they have access to (but weren't told at check-in), and are denied entry, who's fault is that???

huh?

The job of a check in agent is to verify your flight details and/or passport information if app[ropriate, issue boarding passes, tag bags and so on. It's not their position to know or should they be assumed to know anything but the most general of lounge access rules. Many do know more in my experience, but it is NOT something I think any reasonable person should expect.

As above, lounge anegts duty, apart from serving their customers flight issues and so on, but the main job is to vet entry and thus is would be in their remit to know who is allowed in and who isn't. That would be a specific part of training to man that position.

So if a passenger who is entitled to lounge access, irrrelevant of what they are told at check in, is denied entry to a specific lounge, that is on that lounge agent in my view.

 

[Max Samuels]

Well it is interesting, all the different points of view.

Personally, I don't think that it is too hard for an airline who apparently invest millions in "training", to print out a list of lounges in each port, and which pax has access to those lounges. Then, they give a copy of that list to their check-in agents, AND the lounges. Same list - both places! Wow with inspiration like this I should run for president.

They could even put a date on the list so everyone knows if it is current or not. They probably have someone in the back office with a title like "customer service manager" whose job it is to make sure all that cough gets done. And assuming he/she is totally useless and lazy, they could just print out the OW list from the OW website, and then get a pen and scribble in the margin "QF GOLD AND PLAT ALSO GET ACCESS TO EK LOUNGES OK".

If a bunch of random people on an internet forum (us) can tell an airline how to do its job better, then that is pretty sad for that airline....

Does anybody know if this AFF forum can do polls? Can we poll this? I'd be keen to see what people think. Perhaps I have too high an expectation of getting the service I think I have paid for....

 

[Ade]

print out a list of lounges in each port, and which pax has access to those lounges. Then, they give a copy of that list to their check-in agents, AND the lounges. Same list - both places!

As simple as that I think, sometimes, it's very helpful to go back to basics and just print out a list which acts as a ready reckoner for check-in agents. Also, with the copy with lounge agents/dragons, they can advise passengers who arrive at their doorstep if they're at the right place or not

I understand check-in gets busy, but with training and practice, anything can be accomplished And if this becomes a habit, sooner, passengers will know for themselves and wouldn't need the check-in agents to list down the options

 

[AIRwin]

Does anybody know if this AFF forum can do polls?

Yes:

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/forums/qantas.78/post-thread

(scroll down to "Post a poll" and expand)

 

[sudoer]

And a 15yo student doing IT at high school could create the look-up tables and rules that would be required to determine lounge access based on tier and/or class of travel.

You clearly do not have a complete grasp of how complex Qantas' lounge entry rules are, or you are grossly overestimating the abilities of a 15yo high school student.

 

[RichardMEL]

You do realise at some stations the matrix of lounges passengers can access could get really complicated?
For example you have to consider, for a QF flight for example, Class of Service access to lounges (which may be just QF, QF and OW, or QF/OW/EK or even a partner one included), then you need to consider QF status pax ranked as Gold, Plat+ then other onewold status members (remember QF lounge entry rules are different at QF lounges for QF status than for corresponding OW status holders) and then partner status pax, such as EK and so on. The matrix would be insane.

And let me get this right, you want an agent to say to passenger X:

"SO ma'am you may use the Qantas lounge for your flight today. But I also see you are a Platinum, so you may also use the Cathay First or Business Lounge, The American Flagship lounge, and oh, you are on a QF flight number, so you may use the Emirate Lounge also"
then the passenger gets even more confused.

Let's be realistic here and apply common sense.

EK (and some other airlines, like CX IIRC and SQ) print a lounge invite/name on the BP.. but even then that is hardly complete. And in situations like the above, possibly slightly exaggerated example, but not by much, listing all the lounges one could access on a boarding pass you'd probably run out of space.

Remember MOST pax want the easiest and most straight forward option. Mpst, except folks in groups like this, do not care. If you list 3 or 4 different places they can go it will just confuse more than help, IMO.

 

[Max Samuels]

You clearly do not have a complete grasp of how complex Qantas' lounge entry rules are, or you are grossly overestimating the abilities of a 15yo high school student.

LOL - enlighten us please. Lounge access isn't rocket science! I feel like I'm being lectured by a teacher!

The people on this forum seem to understand the rules pretty well - do you not?

The issue is whether the airline staff should also know the rules...

 

[RichardMEL]

You clearly do not have a complete grasp of how complex Qantas' lounge entry rules are, or you are grossly overestimating the abilities of a 15yo high school student.

(humour time)

well QF may also given the raft of errors that seem to increase with their IT services during school holiday times when the so-called work experience kids come in to do a bit of work

 

[RichardMEL]

LOL - enlighten us please. Lounge access isn't rocket science! I feel like I'm being lectured by a teacher!

The people on this forum seem to understand the rules pretty well - do you not?

The issue is whether the airline staff should also know the rules...

OK then, please do list all the lounges a QF Gold flying on a QF flight can use at Hong Kong.
Then make that for a Platinum

and for fun, why not tell us how many guests a BA Emerald can bring into the QF F loungr in Sydney when flying on a Cathay flight....

it is NOT as simple as you make out. It's ignorant to suggest otherwise and the fact that many find it confusing, and there are many threads in this forum alone about lounge access proves that for people with an interest - let alone the general public.