Best Airline for Frequent Travel in Australia (split thread)

[PineappleSkip]

I promised an 'eat that, DJ Drones who claim virgin is the cheapest' comparison, travel down from POM to BNE 16 or 17 Sep, back on 19 Sep, the fares I obtained were, converted to AUD

DJ $629
PX $627
QF $557
CG $509

DJ the most expensive, by a whisker, QF not the cheapest but again the best on an itinerary that gave me two days away. CG (codesharing on DJ) wins the value for $$$ award hands down as they throw in 32kg allowance (cf 20kg on DJ) and a free meal

As noted before all depends who has what buckets available on the day. I think DJ manage to fuel the 'virgin is cheapest' ethos because they currently have the best lead in fares. They have released quite a lot onto the market in the last couple months, probably in response to QF starting up a PNG website with red edeals which made their own fares very competititive. Six months ago I was more regularly finding DJ the priciest as Go! fares were few and far between at the time.

Cheers skip

 

[medhead]

That would depend on the circumstances in which you acquire it. DJ offers deals on corporate lounge rates as well - not that it's relevant to me. Is that what you are comparing to? Or are you again comparing a negotiated discount to an advertised price. If so, that is apples to oranges again.

I was qualifying my personal circumstances against a statement that I would probably have made at some time. So no comparison is being made.

When you say "it can be up to $3500" cheaper to to attain equivalent status, two things: what's the basis for the comparison? Are you comparing the cheapest possible way to wrack up the SC's if you an FFophile or one that actually matches the ways in which someone who actually wants and needs to fly for work will use the airline? Also, i need to be convinced that the sheer number of people who share top tier status is actually good thing.

I'm talking about the first 700 SC of airfares (47 flights) I've purchased this year for my work related flying. This is for someone who is extremely price sensitive. $3500 cheaper than gold on DJ. That is on one route but it could be reproducible on other routes. I said upto because there are a number of variables involved. But to attain gold in Velocity from 47 flights I would have to be spending $191 per flight or $73 more than I've spent per flight with qantas.

If I wish to talk theoretical, then it would be 70 flights on a shorter route which would mean beating $128 per flight week in week out to break even with Velocity Gold. Maybe that is a situation that might be harder to beat. But I'm nothing special in terms of buying airfares and I have easily got better value from qantas.

The issue of number of people in the various programs is intangible. So raising that is like trying to bring pears into the comparison.

 

[777]

I was qualifying my personal circumstances against a statement that I would probably have made at some time. So no comparison is being made.

Fair enough. As long as you're not passing it off as a comparison.

I'm talking about the first 700 SC of airfares (47 flights) I've purchased this year for my work related flying. This is for someone who is extremely price sensitive. $3500 cheaper than gold on DJ. That is on one route but it could be reproducible on other routes. I said upto because that will varying depending on a number of variables. But to attain gold in Velocity from 47 flights I would have to be spending $191 per flight or $73 more than I've spent per flight with qantas.

No argument from me there. However i would add that had i tried to rack up QF status points on my most regular route (MEL-NTL) i would have earned exactly $0 SC unless i'd actually paid $300+ each way as it's one of several 100% JQ routes these days.

777.

 

[medhead]

No argument from me there. However i would add that had i tried to rack up QF status points on my most regular route (MEL-NTL) i would have earned exactly $0 SC unless i'd actually paid $300+ each way as it's one of several 100% JQ routes these days.

777.

And I'd be on DJ in that case as well. In fact I was a bit silly locking in qantas for $100 to $120 for later this year as DJ recently released $79 Go fares

So you'll be look forward to the high speed train?

 

[harvyk]

The lounge access and priority check in - and having one big pool of points rather than two medium ones - are my purely selfish reasons for sticking with QF

I'm the same, I used to fly both DJ and QF (and sometimes a mix of both on one trip) however when I joined QFF (and the QP) I stopped flying anything other than OW as I wanted to build up a large collection of points in one program and get some real rewards rather than having multiple programs with only a few points in each.

 

[JeniSkunk]

I apologise in advance for sticking another spanner into the discussion, but in this thread, mention has been made of the total cost in air travel to attain Gold status on Qantas and Virgin.

The question that comes to mind is:
Is Gold in Virgin the same as Gold in Qantas, or is Gold in Virgin acutally more the equivalent to Platinum in Qantas?
If it's the latter, then how does the total spending compare?

Jenifur Charne

 

[dajop]

I The question that comes to mind is:
Is Gold in Virgin the same as Gold in Qantas, or is Gold in Virgin acutally more the equivalent to Platinum in Qantas?

Actually many would argue that gold on Virgin is inferior to gold on Qantas due to lack of widespread international reciprocity in terms of airline partners, and lack of priority baggage handling. If you just keep it to someone who flies domestically, the main difference is probably anytime lounge access for platinums, and the luggage allowances/handling. Also access to a better grade of lounge (business lounge).

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I'm the same, I used to fly both DJ and QF (and sometimes a mix of both on one trip) however when I joined QFF (and the QP) I stopped flying anything other than OW as I wanted to build up a large collection of points in one program and get some real rewards rather than having multiple programs with only a few points in each.

I agree. I don't fly enough to be in 2 FFP's to make it worthwhile. It's either one or the other, and l suspect l'm not the only one.
Also, that's why the "Dear John" thread has a lot of mention of, "Virgin, please join...Star Alliance or Sky Team". Until they do, l can't see people switching. Then again, snagging a bigger % of the corporate market will also drag people across weather they like it or not. When the boss pays (or employer), you do as your told (99% of the time).

I apologise in advance for sticking another spanner into the discussion, but in this thread, mention has been made of the total cost in air travel to attain Gold status on Qantas and Virgin.

As dajop has replied, it's hard to compare the 2 programs. QF's Oneworld alliance benefits sends DJ program to the gutter, for international travel. Domestically, QF's WP's anytime access is pretty much the stand out, plus 100% bonus points on flights. I'm not too sure what DJ Gold's get.



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[medhead]

I apologise in advance for sticking another spanner into the discussion, but in this thread, mention has been made of the total cost in air travel to attain Gold status on Qantas and Virgin.

The question that comes to mind is:
Is Gold in Virgin the same as Gold in Qantas, or is Gold in Virgin acutally more the equivalent to Platinum in Qantas?
If it's the latter, then how does the total spending compare?

Jenifur Charne

I would consider gold to be equivalent in both programs even with the differences mainly because free lounge access seems to be important.

In terms of platinum cost, I've purchased flights that would get platinum this year that cost about $10000 in cash plus about 80000 points. This the best real example of self funding platinum I can provide. I will hit platinum before I take all those flights due to some work flying last year from my old job. Those 1400 SC also include a couple of one off flights that are not part of my usual flying.

 

[JohnK]

The situation is indeed different for everyone. Let's use another silly example of DJ vs QF.

If one spends $9,000 on DJ they get gold status and, if my calculations are correct, 50,000 Velocity points.

Is one spends $9,000 on QF domestic (assume $90 average per flight) they will easily get Gold status and be well on the way to Platinum status but earn a minimum of 111,111 QFF points which also includes a pro-rata of loyalty bonus for 1,000 SCs.

With QF that is almost enough for a Oneworld award in economy. Enough said....

 

[777]

Is one spends $9,000 on QF domestic (assume $90 average per flight) they will easily get Gold status and be well on the way to Platinum status but earn a minimum of 111,111 QFF points which also includes a pro-rata of loyalty bonus for 1,000 SCs.

With QF that is almost enough for a Oneworld award in economy. Enough said....

John, that's ridiculous. You are telling me that $90 per flight is a reasonable AVERAGE for A HUNDRED domestic flights on the Qantas network? I just looked at a stack of flights SYD-MEL and back next week and didn't find ONE ninety dollar flight. To say nothing of all the other routes that where there are literally NEVER $90 flights. Are you seriously trying to tell me you can get a hundred business flights each year between major Australian cities and average $90 each?

Sorry, but see my comments above about some of the ridiculous self serving logic that people use to justify their QF affiliations.

There are very good reasons for people to go with QF. For every very good reason there's at least 5 people trying to pass off these ridiculous comparisons as actual reasons.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Lets say it's $150 per average flight.

($) 150 x 100 (sectors) = 15k

with that 15k, the 111k points is almost enough for a whY Oneworld RTW ticket = ~$4k.

So, your back to 11k.

 

[notzac]

John, that's ridiculous. You are telling me that $90 per flight is a reasonable AVERAGE for A HUNDRED domestic flights on the Qantas network? I just looked at a stack of flights SYD-MEL and back next week and didn't find ONE ninety dollar flight.

I'm usually the first to dig holes in peoples reasoning to choose QF over DJ, but in this case -- I can find BNE-SYD-BNE flights at normal business times (assuming a commuter) over the course of a number of months for $85 per flight. Even including a CC fee per return flight booking, that's under $90 a flight.

 

[JohnK]

John, that's ridiculous. You are telling me that $90 per flight is a reasonable AVERAGE for A HUNDRED domestic flights on the Qantas network?

Yes it is a reasonable average and even if I changed it to $100 per flight QF is still miles in front.

By the way as a commuter I am looking at it logically. Just this year alone I have been able to get flight SYD-BNE and vv on QF for $65, $69, $75, $79, $85 and some on $98. My latest flights booked through to December were $79 each way. Take note the lowest listed red e-deal airfare on this route for peak times is $101 if booked early although I did stuff up in July and had some expensive flights on DJ as I left the booking until really late.

 

[777]

Yes it is a reasonable average and even if I changed it to $100 per flight QF is still miles in front.

By the way as a commuter I am looking at it logically. Just this year alone I have been able to get flight SYD-BNE and vv on QF for $65, $69, $75, $79, $85 and some on $98. My latest flights booked through to December were $79 each way. Take note the lowest listed red e-deal airfare on this route for peak times is $101 if booked early although I did stuff up in July and had some expensive flights on DJ as I left the booking until really late.

I'm skeptical that that's a consistent average but i'll take your word for it. I doubt it's a typical example for most people's FF spending pattern which may involve travel and different days, times, and destinations. Mine certainly does.

Still, as DJ regularly have a stack of Go Fares on that route for $55 each if you book ahead, you could have bought the tickets there and used the $3500 you saved towards a holiday to the destination of your choice [Don't worry, i'm kidding - it's clearly a better deal in your circumstances]

777.

 

[JeniSkunk]

The situation is indeed different for everyone. Let's use another silly example of DJ vs QF.

If one spends $9,000 on DJ they get gold status and, if my calculations are correct, 50,000 Velocity points.

Is one spends $9,000 on QF domestic (assume $90 average per flight) they will easily get Gold status and be well on the way to Platinum status but earn a minimum of 111,111 QFF points which also includes a pro-rata of loyalty bonus for 1,000 SCs.

With QF that is almost enough for a Oneworld award in economy. Enough said....

Using your average cost for the flights of $90, and the total budget of $9000, on DJ this comes to 100 flights. 1 $90 flight short of Gold.
By my calculations, at that $90 price per flight, it takes 45 flights to move from Red to Silver (20,250 points at 5 points per dollar spent), and another 56 flights to move from Silver to Gold(30,240 points at 6 points per dollar spent). Total points earned, 50,490.

Jenifur Charne

 

[medhead]

John, that's ridiculous. You are telling me that $90 per flight is a reasonable AVERAGE for A HUNDRED domestic flights on the Qantas network? I just looked at a stack of flights SYD-MEL and back next week and didn't find ONE ninety dollar flight. To say nothing of all the other routes that where there are literally NEVER $90 flights. Are you seriously trying to tell me you can get a hundred business flights each year between major Australian cities and average $90 each?

I've been able to get 70 odd commuting flights between ADL and SYD for an average of about $118. So I would imagine $90 on the east coast would be do-able.

The trick is that once you have your known route and flight parameters a commuting person isn't looking for flights next week but in October to December. Do a search and see what you can get in November. Sure it is hard to plan in advance, I've had to change about 5 flights, but that average includes the $250 of change fees.

 

[PineappleSkip]

I forgot to mention that there was a couple further employer driven factors previously tilting the scales in favour of QF.

With my previous employer I was required to travel BFOD and also book through the QBT call centre. Often the fare at a given time for the relevant city pair was about $20 less on DJ. But when QBT added in their $27 (I think it was) charge for booking another airline, guess which was the best net fare!!

I was also required to account separately for work travel points and private travel points nd use the former for business travel. When booking thru QBT with the company profile no points were awarded on QF flights, so nothing to account for. Booking on DJ flights meant keeping the tally (manually), a pain in the $%#@

cheers skip

 

[nlagalle]

I'm skeptical that that's a consistent average but i'll take your word for it. I doubt it's a typical example for most people's FF spending pattern which may involve travel and different days, times, and destinations. Mine certainly does.

I know JohnK takes this route weekly and pays for it himself so I'd take his word on the pricing of tickets. You'll also find a lot of self funded work travellers would quite often be taking the same route too. I'm like you, my destinations change however my most common trip is MEL-SYD-MEL between Wednesday-Friday.

 

[serfty]

I'm skeptical that that's a consistent average but i'll take your word for it. I doubt it's a typical example for most people's FF spending pattern which may involve travel and different days, times, and destinations. Mine certainly does. ...

Most of my domestic flight are booked several months in advance and generally during sales.

I rarely pay more than $90 for QF flights between MEL/SYD, SYD/BNE, MEL/SYD/CBR.

Since JohnK travels SYD/BNE over 40 times per year and also mainly books sale fares I'm sure his average is accurate.

Of course, DJ fares purchased at around the same time for the same dates and routes would be generally be cheaper than those of Qantas as they have their own sales.

However, since Velocity Status is directly purchase price related, more flights would be required for the status levels mentioned.