Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

N860CR

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The OP never said that 4 patients were turned away without treatment. You have made several posts that stated this.
It’s incorrect.

Sorry, but no. A giant rant about a health system overrun with the statement “I had to decline 4 patients” clearly suggests adequate care was not provided.
 

Princess Fiona

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Sorry, but no. A giant rant about a health system overrun with the statement “I had to decline 4 patients” clearly suggests adequate care was not provided.
Nope not seeing that in the post at all.
We will have to agree to disagree.
I don’t believe that it was giant rant about a health system over run.
It was a post with facts and figures about the current Covid load in ICU in NSW right now.

It’s far from business as usual but we have been planning for this for a long time and we will get through it.
 

N860CR

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Nope not seeing that in the post at all.
We will have to agree to disagree.
I don’t believe that it was giant rant about a health system over run.
It was a post with facts and figures about the current Covid load in ICU in NSW right now.

Perhaps take off your rose coloured glasses? I saw a rant about the huge number of patients in hospital even after hitting vaccination figures and the statement “I had to decline 4 patients on Monday because of lack of staff, too bad if you get sick...”.

Declined four patients… too bad if you get sick. Sounds a lot like unable to provide care.

But you’re right, no point arguing with you. Just like I declined to argue with the doctor today who adamantly told me that Tasmania will “never” be able to reopen regardless of vaccination level until “the entire world is vaccinated” as they have no ICU capacity.
 

Princess Fiona

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Perhaps take off your rose coloured glasses? I saw a rant about the huge number of patients in hospital even after hitting vaccination figures and the statement “I had to decline 4 patients on Monday because of lack of staff, too bad if you get sick...”.

Declined four patients… too bad if you get sick. Sounds a lot like unable to provide care.

But you’re right, no point arguing with you. Just like I declined to argue with the doctor today who adamantly told me that Tasmania will “never” be able to reopen regardless of vaccination level until “the entire world is vaccinated” as they have no ICU capacity.
Lol no Rose colored glasses just some awful goggles and a face shield on top of my N 95 mask.

I don’t know anyone amongst my frontline colleagues in our weekly NSW meetings who are like the Tasmanian Dr that you have encountered. Good luck with that one in whatever professional capacity you deal with them.
 

jakeseven7

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Wow…. I think everyone needs to cool their jets you are fighting over something no one has full visibility over…. Why all the anger :)
 

Princess Fiona

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Wow…. I think everyone needs to cool their jets you are fighting over something no one has full visibility over…. Why all the anger :)
Agreed I don’t understand the angst. Much of it misdirected.
I have the weekend off from covid duties and will be chilling with a beverage hopefully.
 

andye

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Apologies if this is OT but in terms of paying large amounts of tax for health, a high standard of healthcare is expensive. Australia is very much middle of the road especially when you look at the dark blue public bars below.

Screenshot_20210917-061257_Drive.jpg
 

Pushka

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Wow…. I think everyone needs to cool their jets you are fighting over something no one has full visibility over…. Why all the anger :)
I think everything is building up to some kind of Covid climax in that NSW and then possibly Vic may see a significant increase in ICU cases which is of course stessful for everyone, plus it will look like some kind of barometer of the future when 80% is reached for those states abiding by the National Agreement. Until now, for the last 18 months it's almost been status quo but that is about to be completely disrupted. So it's stress about the future that will unfold. Brave New World. For Australia.
 

jb747

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Apologies if this is OT but in terms of paying large amounts of tax for health, a high standard of healthcare is expensive. Australia is very much middle of the road especially when you look at the dark blue public bars below.
The graph will look much better once our GDP collapses.
 

teammongo

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It's unfortunate that this thread has deteriorated when I challenged the statement "At 80% vaccination in one of the worlds richest countries, there should be zero issue in handling a few covid patients." I asked for facts, and did not get any - not one.

Instead I was dismissed, having "cherry picked numbers to get to a worst case scenario". The 6% I quoted is a real number, not cherry picked. It is a fact.
Currently 90% of the UK population have antibodies despite only 66% being vaccinated. So there is a 24% discrepancy, commonly attributed to previous COVID exposure. Compare that to Australia where there have been 80,000 cases amongst population of 25 million, less than 0.5%. So in some ways we are more vulnerable even at 80% vaccination.

Granted, the UK experience is not directly comparable to AU. They have suffered greatly, with over 135,000 deaths. This is about 1:500 of the population. We will not have the same large cohort of previously COVID exposed population. So those pictures about what is happening elsewhere, such as the UK, may not translate to a similar situation here.

Regarding patient care. ICU is a risk minimisation tool for the hospital and the healthcare system. Patients are referred to ICU from surgeons/anaesthetists, emergency physicians, general and sub-specialist physicians. So until they are accepted, ie we can care for your patient at the appropriate level, the care responsibility remains with the referrer. The four patients mentioned were either transferred facilitated out to other hospitals, or were managed on the ward with an appropriate care plan, or cared for in recovery, until a bed (and more importantly a nurse) became available. They all received appropriate care, but not what I would call ideal care.

In regards to the healthcare collapsing. I have never intimated that the health system would collapse. If you look at the post, it is quite clear that there where over 100 beds still available. I also stated most of the load is in a few hospitals, where usual service provision is not possible. This is a fact. I know that hospitals even last night where transporting significant numbers patients out (more than in my post).
The numbers put up are some guesstimates over 6 months - that is clearly stated. This should be enough time to make provisions for this rapidly evolving problem. So I think it is unlikely that we will get to a healthcare collapse situation, but I say that through the lens of high uncertainty of COVID.

In regards to my answers that I can offer, social policy is not my area of expertise, but my suggestions are mainly medical. If you have something to offer, we should be able to debate the pros and cons in a civil manner.

I would suggest:

1. Improve in flow of foreign trained nurses and doctors, which was quite common prior to COVID. This needs to happen ASAP. We need those overseas trained nurses and doctors.

2. Improve Nursing conditions. The CARE in the intensive care units is almost all from nurses. They are backbone of the ICU. ICU and emergency nurses are very highly trained and also some of the only nurses where day/night workloads are equivalent. Depending of shifts, that means 33%-50% of your working life is night shift. Understandably, this takes its toll on longevity of career nurses. There are reports of nurses increasingly walking away from ICU and Emergency because of COVID fatigue. Healthcare workers are exhausted and essentially "they don't need this in their lives". Sad but true.

3. Treat COVID with respect, and vaccinate widely. We are not going to get through this with "she'll be right mate" or "there is no problem" attitude, we need individuals and communities to pull together with healthcare. I think healthcare workers need community affirmation, as morale will no doubt decrease as this drags on.

I have always on this forum tried to offer latest facts and science to better understand this pandemic. Most posters on this forum are successful and intelligent people, who might be able to influence the sphere around them.

TM
 
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OATEK

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It's unfortunate that this thread has deteriorated when I challenged the statement "At 80% vaccination in one of the worlds richest countries, there should be zero issue in handling a few covid patients." I asked for facts, and did not get any - not one.

Instead I was dismissed, having "cherry picked numbers to get to a worst case scenario". The 6% I quoted is a real number, not cherry picked. It is a fact.
Currently 90% of the UK population have antibodies despite only 66% being vaccinated. So there is a 24% discrepancy, commonly attributed to previous COVID exposure. Compare that to Australia where there have been 80,000 cases amongst population of 25 million, less than 0.5%. So in some ways we are more vulnerable even at 80% vaccination.

Granted, the UK experience is not directly comparable to AU. They have suffered greatly, with over 160,000 deaths. This is about 1:500 of the population. We will not have the same large cohort of previously COVID exposed population. So those pictures about what is happening elsewhere, such as the UK, may not translate to a similar situation here.

Regarding patient care. ICU is a risk minimisation tool for the hospital and the healthcare system. Patients are referred to ICU from surgeons/anaesthetists, emergency physicians, general and sub-specialist physicians. So until they are accepted, ie we can care for your patient at the appropriate level, the care responsibility remains with the referrer. The four patients mentioned were either transferred facilitated out to other hospitals, or were managed on the ward with an appropriate care plan, or cared for in recovery, until a bed (and more importantly a nurse) became available. They all received appropriate care, but not what I would call ideal care.

In regards to the healthcare collapsing. I have never intimated that the health system would collapse. If you look at the post, it is quite clear that there where over 100 beds still available. I also stated most of the load is in a few hospitals, where usual service provision is not possible. This is a fact. I know that hospitals even last night where transporting significant numbers patients out (more than in my post).
The numbers put up are some guesstimates over 6 months - that is clearly stated. This should be enough time to make provisions for this rapidly evolving problem. So I think it is unlikely that we will get to a healthcare collapse situation, but I say that through the lens of high uncertainty of COVID.

In regards to my answers that I can offer, social policy is not my area of expertise, but my suggestions are mainly medical. If you have something to offer, we should be able to debate the pros and cons in a civil manner.

I would suggest:

1. Improve in flow of foreign trained nurses and doctors, which was quite common prior to COVID. This needs to happen ASAP. We need those overseas trained nurses and doctors.

2. Improve Nursing conditions. The CARE in the intensive care units is almost all from nurses. They are backbone of the ICU. ICU and emergency nurses are very highly trained and also some of the only nurses where day/night workloads are equivalent. Depending of shifts, that means 33%-50% of your working life is night shift. Understandably, this takes its toll on longevity of career nurses. There are reports of nurses increasingly walking away from ICU and Emergency because of COVID fatigue. Healthcare workers are exhausted and essentially "they don't need this in their lives". Sad but true.

3. Treat COVID with respect, and vaccinate widely. We are not going to get through this with "she'll be right mate" or "there is no problem" attitude, we need individuals and communities to pull together with healthcare. I think healthcare workers need community affirmation, as morale will no doubt decrease as this drags on.

I have always on this forum tried to offer latest facts and science to better understand this pandemic. Most posters on this forum are successful and intelligent people, who might be able to influence the sphere around them.

TM
Everybody on here is to a large extent basing commentary on their lived experience. Those that are most affected by having the business destroyed and losing their homes because of long lock downs to save lives will likely not be on here. There will be other cohorts who are bearing the brunt of the lockdowns because their business is closed or their work needs to be in person rather than online. From the few people I know in these categories they are desperate to be allowed to try and put their lives back together and feel they have been unfairly dealt with to save the lives that the UK experience saw lost.

The health system is important to us all, but so is putting a roof over one's head and food on the table. My argument is that we read many erudite and seemingly learned posts on here that do not include the lived experience of vast numbers in the wider community. For this reason opening up at 80% seems far too late for many, and too soon for others. There is no perfect answer to when, but more and more society (in NSW) accepts that open up it must.
 

HappyFlyerFamily

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News reporting

Health authorities have plunged a regional area near the Queensland border into a seven-day lockdown.

The stay-at-home orders will be in place for the Glen Innes Severn local government area, located in the New England region of the state, from 6pm on Friday night.

The harsh measures come after it was revealed yesterday that a known COVID-19 case was active in the community.

Adam Marshall MP made the announcement on social media and apologised to his constituents.


Edit to add MP's FB post

I have just been advised moments ago by the Health Minister and NSW Chief Health Officer that a decision has been taken to place the Glen Innes Severn LGA into a 7-day lockdown, from 6pm tonight, as a result of a known COVID case (announced yesterday) active in the community.
I am very sorry and realise this was not the news many of you were wanting to hear, especially small business owners, and I fully appreciate the stress and strain this will place on you.
However, in response to the COVID case and the fact that the individual had been active in the community while infectious, the NSW Chief Health Officer convened an independent panel of medical experts to review all the information relevant to the case in Glen Innes.
That panel determined and strongly recommended that a 7-day lockdown be imposed to protect the community and safeguard against further spread of COVID in Glen Innes, especially given the COVID-positive individual was active in the local community (and outside the community) for three days while infectious.
As announced at the time lockdowns were lifted across our region recently, if a case appeared which was active in the community, that LGA would be placed into a 14-day lockdown. Only 7 days has been recommended and agreed for the Glen Innes LGA based on the level of risk posed to the community.
I will post again later today in more detail about the rules for the lockdown, but they will be the same the previous lockdown, with the same stay-at-home rules applying for the 7-day period, from 6pm tonight.
Many of you have already asked about why Glen Innes was not mentioned at the 11am press conference - my understanding is that the independent panel was still doing its work assessing the Glen Innes situation and data from other LGAs across the State where there are also new confirmed cases at the time, so an announcement could not be made at that time.
I am posting this now, ahead of the formal announcement by the Minister (and only minutes after I found out) to give everyone as much notice as possible.
I’ll update the community again this afternoon, when more information comes to hand.
Stay safe and take care everyone.
Adam.
 
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jrfsp

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News reporting

Health authorities have plunged a regional area near the Queensland border into a seven-day lockdown.

The stay-at-home orders will be in place for the Glen Innes Severn local government area, located in the New England region of the state, from 6pm on Friday night.

The harsh measures come after it was revealed yesterday that a known COVID-19 case was active in the community.

Adam Marshall MP made the announcement on social media and apologised to his constituents.

"NSW Health has just released a public health alert confirming that decision and announcing lockdown restrictions for the Hilltops LGA in the South West Slopes region, including the town of Young."

This yo-yoing of lockdowns has to be worse for business than staying in lockdown. In another week or so half the released areas will be back in lockdown.
 

OATEK

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"NSW Health has just released a public health alert confirming that decision and announcing lockdown restrictions for the Hilltops LGA in the South West Slopes region, including the town of Young."

This yo-yoing of lockdowns has to be worse for business than staying in lockdown. In another week or so half the released areas will be back in lockdown.
Yes, but the others are still open.
 

Seat0B

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Everybody on here is to a large extent basing commentary on their lived experience. Those that are most affected by having the business destroyed and losing their homes because of long lock downs to save lives will likely not be on here. There will be other cohorts who are bearing the brunt of the lockdowns because their business is closed or their work needs to be in person rather than online. From the few people I know in these categories they are desperate to be allowed to try and put their lives back together and feel they have been unfairly dealt with to save the lives that the UK experience saw lost.

The health system is important to us all, but so is putting a roof over one's head and food on the table. My argument is that we read many erudite and seemingly learned posts on here that do not include the lived experience of vast numbers in the wider community. For this reason opening up at 80% seems far too late for many, and too soon for others. There is no perfect answer to when, but more and more society (in NSW) accepts that open up it must.
Thanks @OATEK - this is a balanced comment on a very emotive issue.

As one who has had serious business issues because of lockdowns, I am pretty keen for us to open up at 80% and let the health system do its work.

I am tired of being shafted financially to protect people who do not want to be protected eg the anti-vaxxers, the vaccine hold-outs, the states that are not pulling their weight in terms of getting people vaxxed, and even a cohort of the elderly who are willing to take their chances now they are double-vaxxed so they can see their families and enjoy what is left of their lives. To me it is not tragic to society if a "man in his 90s in palliative care" dies - of anything, including COVID. I totally understand that this may be tragic to the person's family, although many families seem to feel like I felt when my father died of lung cancer a couple of years back at the age of 84. Which was relieved that his suffering was over, because he really was suffering.

And I am tired of the pointless pursuit of COVID zero, and the moving goal posts. I'm tired of not being able to see my family interstate or overseas, or even in the northern suburbs of Canberra.

I'm not saying we should have just let it rip, I accepted the need for the steps taken in 2020. But I am very annoyed that the lost opportunities to vaccinate early and to improve hotel quarantine have led to us here in Eastern Australia being in a much worse place in 2021 than we were then.

We cannot continue down this path, which creates many other types of unacknowledged and even disparaged casualties other than people who get COVID. The time is here to trust the science, follow the Doherty modelling and open up in accordance with the National Plan at 80% double vaxxed. By all means pursue aspirational vaccination goals like 90% of 12+, but open up 80% of 16+ as the modelling supports.
 

justinbrett

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"NSW Health has just released a public health alert confirming that decision and announcing lockdown restrictions for the Hilltops LGA in the South West Slopes region, including the town of Young."

This yo-yoing of lockdowns has to be worse for business than staying in lockdown. In another week or so half the released areas will be back in lockdown.

The alternative was to leave them in lockdown. Being in Newcastle, I am somewhat relief we are still getting cases so there is no doubt our lockdown won't be lifted any earlier than Sydney.

I personally think they should have removed the safe border areas along the QLD and VIC borders and left the rest of the state in lockdown. Even within HNE - where Greater Newcastle is having similar caseloads to Canberra, it seems silly to remove adjoining LGAs like Singleton and Upper Hunter when it's just inevitable there will be spread from Newcastle.

Some in the regions may prefer to take their chances, I guess it's up for debate which way is better. I like the thought that when we finally come out of lockdown, we are coming out for good.
 

jb747

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Some in the regions may prefer to take their chances, I guess it's up for debate which way is better. I like the thought that when we finally come out of lockdown, we are coming out for good.
Out for good. What on earth makes you think that? I don’t know how many lockdowns we’ve had, but I have no doubt that the government has some more in store for us. The Vic NSW border has been effectively closed for over a year now. Well beyond ludicrous.
 
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