Are you Going to use the COVIDsafe App?

[serfty]

I did research this a fair bit and I decided I was happy to:

Privacy Policy

The COVIDSafe app speeds up contacting people exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19). This helps us support and protect you, your friends and family. Please read the content on this page before downloading.

www.health.gov.au

 

[serfty]

It wouldn’t be if it held the data on the phone. Once it uploads it, I’m sure data analysis would allow some form on tracking.

Certainly, but not really any different from the type of tracking post diagnosis of COVID-19 infection currently in place (sans app) other than perhaps more accurate data.

I doubt the (now) 62 case Victorian Meatworks based cluster would have happened the same if the COVIDsafe app had been in action when the first worker was diagnosed 5 weeks ago.

And the 1.5 metres is a guess. It records every phone that it’s able to lock on to. Bluetooth doesn‘t measure range.

True - it is a guess, but an 'educated' one.

The app swaps with the nearby devices their make and model numbers in order to use Bluetooth signal strength to estimate separation/distance.

 

[moa999]

wonder if the (now) 62 case Victorian Meatworks based cluster would have happened the same if the COVIDsafe app

You'd have thought that it would have been similar. Tracing into the home and workplace would be the most obvious steps.

 

[serfty]

Tracing into the ... workplace would be the most obvious steps.

It seems the health department initially did not do this in regard to the workplace.

I was posting more along the lines of the cluster's 0 case worker supposedly having advised health official that they had not been at work - the app may have demonstrated the truth (or not) of that (or at least of being in close contact with co-workers).

 

[drron]

Maybe try telling that to the folks in UK, USA, Italy, now unfolding in Russia. Those who haven't died or have lost a family member. Good luck with that search. They may not agree.

I guess it's hard for some to recognise that preventive action does exactly that. And weirdly, the opposition have demonstrated strong bipartisan support for the policies leaving you with no wriggle room anymore in Australia. Off you go, find a country.

But the world did it after the Spanish flu epidemic and that killed way more people than Covid has.Responded by going into the Roaring 20s and partied hard.

2009 swine flu was not as bad with respect to mortality with deaths estimated at 284000.But as to numbers infected it is thought there were 700 million cases.Way more than Covid.Yet travel was basically not affected.We travelled for ~ 6 weeks in Asia at the height of the pandemic.A vaccine produced quickly.

1957 Asian flu from China.Estimated to have caused 500 million cases with 1-2 million deaths.Life went on as normal.100,000 deaths at least in the USA despite there being a vaccine.

1968 flu pandemic.First noticed in the USA.1 million deaths worldwide and 100000 in USA.

So we have been there,done that before.

 

[Pushka]

But the world did it after the Spanish flu epidemic and that killed way more people than Covid has.Responded by going into the Roaring 20s and partied hard.

2009 swine flu was not as bad with respect to mortality with deaths estimated at 284000.But as to numbers infected it is thought there were 700 million cases.Way more than Covid.Yet travel was basically not affected.We travelled for ~ 6 weeks in Asia at the height of the pandemic.A vaccine produced quickly.

1957 Asian flu from China.Estimated to have caused 500 million cases with 1-2 million deaths.Life went on as normal.100,000 deaths at least in the USA despite there being a vaccine.

1968 flu pandemic.First noticed in the USA.1 million deaths worldwide and 100000 in USA.

So we have been there,done that before.

Sure. But they didn’t party within 4 months of the outbreak! I think you are talking of a completely different timeline here.

 

[drron]

Sure. But they didn’t party within 4 months of the outbreak! I think you are talking of a completely different timeline here.

Now,now you were replying to a comment about life after Covid and we aren't there yet.

 

[Pushka]

Or.... we could all take a deep breath and say "man - that wasn't as bad as we thought it was... let's go back to life as we did before. Just like we did after every other plague/disease etc throughout history. But let's make sure our GOVERNMENT has a plan so that next time this happens, they can deal with it better and not terrorise and terrify the population"

Now,now you were replying to a comment about life after Covid and we aren't there yet.

I took a very different interpretation of the original post as that poster had previously stated that the quarantine procedures put into place contravened or similar wording, the rights of people. And that Australia had overreacted in doing what we did because we didn’t get the death rate that others have.

I do agree with swine flu there wasn’t so much social and economic impact.

 

[Tiki]

Yet another reason why Australia needs to step up the antibody tests. How many people are walking around who were aysmptomatic or had such a mild case they assumed it was a cold or the flu? Add that tally to the tally of confirmed cases and I bet the mortality rate drops down to the seasonal flu rate.

 

[moa999]

How many people are walking around who were aysmptomatic or had such a mild case they assumed it was a cold or the flu?

Given NSW and Vic are testing anyone with any flu symptoms, and testing over 10k a day and finding minimal community cases,

I'd say not many

 

[Tiki]

I don’t mean currently infected cases. I mean people who may have had it weeks ago without symptoms. They would be recovered from Covid19. And obviously still alive. So they should be included in the stats for total cases and recovered cases.

 

[nutwood]

Have been interested to read more considered assessments of how the Covid app works and it appears that some of my initial concerns are invalid.
As far as I can ascertain, the app simply logs every Bluetooth handshake, along with signal strength, phone model and encrypted ID. In the event of an app possessor being confirmed positive, the data is analysed. I consider this way more sensible than the 1.5/15 model that's being discussed. Potentially, it could detect the 30 seconds in your face, although, realistically, it would work it's best with large numbers.
I suspect that in most Australian cases, basic questions as to recent contacts will be quicker and more effective. That said, I will be looking more seriously at the app prior to moving off my home turf.

 

[DC3]

286 votes cast so far. How many login to AFF each day?

Edit: 4 days left in which to cast a vote.

 

[luxury-lizard]

286 votes cast so far. How many login to AFF each day?

Edit: 4 days left in which to cast a vote.

That's pretty low - I have no idea how many logon everyday (indeed say once a week) but I assume it's quite a few more than 286 - looks like not that many are all that interested in this somewhat contentious thread - IMO it says nothing about their opinion on the app.

 

[Max Samuels]

Maybe try telling that to the folks in UK, USA, Italy, now unfolding in Russia. Those who haven't died or have lost a family member. Good luck with that search. They may not agree.

I guess it's hard for some to recognise that preventive action does exactly that. And weirdly, the opposition have demonstrated strong bipartisan support for the policies leaving you with no wriggle room anymore in Australia.

The USA? Sure, NY is doing really bad - but the rest of the country? Not so bad at all. If you use the deaths per million standard, the USA sits about the middle of the pack - around where Germany sits. I did a quick google for you

And the opposition's "strong" bipartisan support? The opposition has stayed pretty quiet on the issue... biding their time. Waiting to pounce. And on a State level, there is plenty of criticism being thrown around by the opposition... it might require you to go and read something other than the "official" government media outlets... as the media is still in the "honeymoon" phase of this. But when we move into the blame game? The Government is going to be fighting for air...

New York antibody study estimates 13.9% of residents have had the coronavirus, Gov. Cuomo says

The state's mortality rates remains persistently high at about 7.4%. The antibody testing indicates the actual death rate may be far lower.

www.cnbc.com

According to the Gov of New York, 2.7 million people in New York probably had the virus.... so I assume you can do the math on that and see that its way less deadly than previously thought...

At the very least, this whole thing has been a fascinating insight into the human psyche and its reaction to authority... we are seeing repeats of what we saw during the cold war... neighbours encouraged to "dob" in their neighbours,.. people so terrified (like you) who tell others (like me) to go to another country because I disagree with big brother?? Lol. I have yet to meet/hear of anyone that has got sick from this. But I have seen plenty of people turn into mindless drones.

 

[Pushka]

Fascinating.

I have yet to meet/hear of anyone that has got sick from this. But I have seen plenty of people turn into mindless drones.

Haven't you? Gosh, I have heard of a few with the illness. There is a poster on this forum who has had it. I have an in law in UK who has died from it. And next door neighbours family, in his mid forties, was very ill with positive Covid and his work mate had it and needed hospital treatment. I've posted on this forum in other threads about all of this so not inventing it for for your benefit.

Our restrictions in SA have been far less taxing than Victoria. Don't know how the locals are coping with that. Oh wait....

 

[DC3]

286 votes cast so far. How many login to AFF each day?

Edit: 4 days left in which to cast a vote.

I just noticed that it’s now jumped to 287 over the past 24 hours.

Edit: Another hit just now. 288.

 

[Spongbob]

Maybe the poll questions should be like the CovidSafe app: make daily changes .

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Over 5.4 million people have now ( Sat 9 May) downloaded the government's COVIDSafe app.

 

[DC3]

289. Maybe the poll will need to be extended.

I had thought that we would have had more AFFers regularly looking at this thread.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yet another reason why Australia needs to step up the antibody tests. How many people are walking around who were aysmptomatic or had such a mild case they assumed it was a cold or the flu? Add that tally to the tally of confirmed cases and I bet the mortality rate drops down to the seasonal flu rate.

(my bolding)

Mortality rates will vary depending on how you calculate it.

I would note in comparing it to the flu that also have ignored that many people who catch the flu each are not diagnosed they, like with Covid 19, are not all tested for it.

In Australia 2020 confirmed flu cases had been tracking similar to the 2019 Season until Covid 19 measures were put in place. Flu cases for April 2020 is for April 2019 were 18,667 !

https://www.immunisationcoalition.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/4May-Aust-Flu-Stats-2020.pdf

This shows that social distancing, handwashing etc work.. Without these measures CV19 in Australia would have been like Sweden, Italy etc and out death toll much higher.

If Australia maintains these measures to significant degree then it is like that 2020 Flu deaths will be very low.

Sweden with:

• only mild Covid 19 control measures are in place (though the general population are in many cases more cautious than there government)
• a good health system
• an affluent population comparable to Australia

is probably a reasonable control to compare to.



Adjust the deaths in Sweden (10 million ) to the Australian population size and their current number of deaths of 3175 becomes 8,250 and climbing.
With an estimated exposure so far of 10-20% their final death toll for one season will be higher and could be many multiples higher.

In Australia, influenza on average causes 1,500 to 3,000 deaths each year Influenza Fast Facts » Influenza Specialist Group (ISG)

So if had treated Covid 19 as just another seasonal flu, then without Covid 19 control measures it is likely that the death toll in Australia would have been many multiples of what the flu would have caused. These control measures will also save lives from the effects of the flu and so the number of lives saved, compared to do nothing, will be even greater.