"oneworld" award (132.4K/249.6K/318K/455K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

[djkelly69]

is this the e-ticket you're eluding to below?

Oh ok, yep that is an e-ticket!

 

[kpro]

Would through check work on that itinerary (particularly baggage)? AFAIK BA and EK no longer have an interline agreement. But Symesy9 will be initially checking in with QF, and the EK flight is a QF codeshare.

 

[MelbFlyer]

So, I've been checking for the past few months for any business classic reward seats in an attempt to replace / upgrade the final leg of my upcoming 6-leg itinerary (which is currently in JQ Economy) - I note that there's now a new QF operated flight available and also with business availability (economy is also showing as well) as showing online in the multi city search.

As per normal, I call Qantas to attempt to change to this flight (unfortunately, no other way to change reward bookings!) - the same BS answer as a few months ago -
"There is no availability for classic reward seats (both economy and business) on the day you're looking at - what you see online is most likely only available for new bookings".

Why is this the case and why is it so difficult to change? If it's showing online, isn't it misleading that it can't be used for existing bookings? What is the issue that it can't be used for existing bookings? None of my legs are domestic btw - they are all international. The final leg is from SIN to MEL direct.

I have enough points outright to book the newly available QF flight and then attempt to cancel the final leg on my existing booking, but then I won't benefit from the 318k PTS cap.

I'm a lowly Bronze and don't have access to the much coveted Hobart team.

 

[dairyfloss]

Would through check work on that itinerary (particularly baggage)? AFAIK BA and EK no longer have an interline agreement. But Symesy9 will be initially checking in with QF, and the EK flight is a QF codeshare.

Checked EF for interline agreements from BA just now, and looks to be ok:

Paper Ticket and Baggage Interline Agreements​

MAY ISSUE TICKETS INCLUDING
AA AC AE AF AH AI AM AS AT AV AY AZ A3 A9
BA BI BL BM BP BR BT BW B6 CA CI CM CX CZ
DL DT EC EI EK ET EY FB FI FJ FM FV GA GF
GK GR G3 HA HG HM HP HX IB IC JC JJ JL JP
JQ JU JY J2 KA KC KE KK KL KM KP KQ KU KX
LA LG LH LI LM LO LP LR LX LY ME MH MI MN
MS MU MX NH NU NZ OA OK OM OS OU OZ PG PR
PS PW PX PZ QF QI QM QR RB RJ RO SA SB SK
SN SQ SS SU SV S7 TA TF TG TJ TK TM TN TP
TU T0 UA UK UL UP UU U0 U7 VN VS VY WB WF
WM WS WY XK XL XM X5 2K 3K 3U 4C 4M 4O 4Z
5T 7H 9B 9W

MAY CHECK BAGGAGE TO
AA AC AE AF AH AI AS AT AV AY AZ A3 A9 BA
BI BL BM BP BR BT BW B6 CA CI CM CX CZ DL
DT EC EI EK ET EY FB FI FJ FM FV GA GF GK
G3 HA HG HM HP HX IB IC JC JJ JL JP JQ JU
JY J2 KA KC KE KK KL KM KP KQ KU KX LA LG
LH LI LM LO LP LR LX LY ME MI MN MS MU MX
NH NU NZ OA OK OM OS OU OZ PG PR PS PW PX
PZ QF QI QM QR RB RO SA SB SK SN SQ SU SV
S7 TA TG TJ TK TM TN TP TU T0 UA UK UP UU
U0 U7 VN VS VY WB WF WM WS WY XK XL XM X5
2K 3K 3U 4C 4M 4O 4Z 7H 9B 9W

Cheers,
Matt.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So, I've been checking for the past few months for any business classic reward seats in an attempt to replace / upgrade the final leg of my upcoming 6-leg itinerary (which is currently in JQ Economy) - I note that there's now a new QF operated flight available and also with business availability (economy is also showing as well) as showing online in the multi city search.

As per normal, I call Qantas to attempt to change to this flight (unfortunately, no other way to change reward bookings!) - the same BS answer as a few months ago -
"There is no availability for classic reward seats (both economy and business) on the day you're looking at - what you see online is most likely only available for new bookings".

Why is this the case and why is it so difficult to change? If it's showing online, isn't it misleading that it can't be used for existing bookings? What is the issue that it can't be used for existing bookings? None of my legs are domestic btw - they are all international. The final leg is from SIN to MEL direct.

I have enough points outright to book the newly available QF flight and then attempt to cancel the final leg on my existing booking, but then I won't benefit from the 318k PTS cap.

I'm a lowly Bronze and don't have access to the much coveted Hobart team.

I feel the pain! I think you just need to keep calling. I spoke to three agents telling me ‘no availability’ until the fourth one found the flights and booked them.

The only thing to bear in mind is that currency fluctuations or increases in fuel surcharges can blow out the fees… qantas seem to cancel the whole ticket and reprice it. In my case it was going to be $450 to change ecinomy to business on a one hour flight. I’m staying in the main cabin!

I dunno what the key is, but eventually you should find an agent that can book.

 

[MelbFlyer]

I feel the pain! I think you just need to keep calling. I spoke to three agents telling me ‘no availability’ until the fourth one found the flights and booked them.

I dunno what the key is, but eventually you should find an agent that can book.

So a miracle happened today, but still not 100% what I was after.

After the above call, I HUACA again and was able to get a consultant (finally a more switched on / helpful one) who was able to escalate to their "team coach" on why they were unable to see the reward seats I wanted. The call initially started the same - ie. they were unable to see the reward seats I could see online / they're only for new bookings etc.

They then tried a "different method", then "miraculously", they were able to find and add the reward seats and in the class I wanted too - I was like, woohoo finally a step in the right direction!

The desired reward seat / flight then appeared in manage my booking during the call (I was on hold for at least 45mins - 1hr though) so I knew something was done in the background.

From there though, they re-calculated the amount of points required and it seemed a bit off, so they put me on hold again for another 30mins whilst they re-calculated and came back to me stating that as the booking was done under my partner's QFF account, that I'd have to transfer points as there was insufficient points in her account (I can definitely vouch that there was enough points though).

I then said no problem and just obliged - I transferred the points accordingly. They then said that it would take "some time" (quoted a few hrs) for the points to appear on their end. I didn't really believe it, but I went along with it anyway and we mutually ended the call after I asked what I needed to do when I called back a few hours later once the points "turned up" in my partner's account.

I then HUACA, and I was VERY surprised to hear an Australian accent (I won't mention the name of the consultant for privacy reasons, but they were THE BEST I've had from Qantas).

I then explained the whole situation and that I was just looking to just pay for a flight change as per the previous call.

I was then put on hold again for about 45mins - 1hr due to their system being slow and for some investigation.

When the call resumed, the consultant wasn't happy with the points / taxes calculation from their internal team (ie. it came back a lot more than what it should have been) so they offered to investigate further and call back. I was more than happy to receive a call back.

1.5hrs later, I did indeed get that call back and the points / taxes calculation now came up correct on their end (their initial hunch was correct in that the taxes payable was a lot less than their internal team's calculations).

Passed my CC details and confirmed to proceed, I then got an updated e-ticket within 45mins after the call.

The consultant then asked if I called any special number to get through or if I was transferred from another consultant - I just told them I called the 13 13 13 number.

They then mentioned that they were surprised I got through, because I had just got through to the Hobart team and generally this team is a priority line.

To the consultant (if you're on this forum) - you know who you are - thankyou very much for sorting out my long standing issue and I'm surprised that as a lowly Bronze, I had luck in getting through to Hobart!

The only issue I now have though (as per mentioned, not 100% what I was after), is, it didn't end up being a capped 318k OWA. My flights are with QF, AY, AF, BA and QF.

All legs are in business apart from the BA one which is in PE (which I'm okay with as there's nothing available at all now, not even economy)

I'm assuming that the issue may lie with the AF flight not being eligible under the "OWA"? If yes, I could probably look for alternatives, but then I'd probably have to go through the whole process of calling until I get a consultant who can "miraculously" see reward seats which I can see. That in itself will take ages again.

I've just searched, and BA have options but I do have to transit and it would add hours to the trip, plus additional airport time. I think for the sake of 20-30k points, I'll just leave it as-is as I've had pretty much enough of most Qantas consultants lying about :

1. Not being able to see the reward seats I can see online
2. Claiming those reward seats showing online are for new bookings only (which is a lie, because after 4hrs and a little bit of luck, I managed to claim those seats which were showing online)

I guess you can't always win... Sorry about the long winded post!

TL;DR - After HUACA x 2 and 4hrs on the phone, I was finally able to change my JQ economy rewards seats to a QF business rewards seat (and get through to Hobart as a bronze member), but the entire itinerary didn't fall under the 318k OWA as I suspect it's the AF leg that is causing ineligibility.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That’s a result!

The incorrect taxes was a huge problem for my booking. Still is. I can’t make any changes without them wanting $450 extra. If only we could get hold of hobart.

 

[Lynda2475]

The consultant then asked if I called any special number to get through or if I was transferred from another consultant - I just told them I called the 13 13 13 number.

They then mentioned that they were surprised I got through, because I had just got through to the Hobart team and generally this team is a priority line.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that if the IVR recognizes that you have called multiple times and had lengthy calls within a short period you are more likely to be routed to Hobart for the next call as it indicates a complex issue.

 

[Mr H]

That’s a result!

The incorrect taxes was a huge problem for my booking. Still is. I can’t make any changes without them wanting $450 extra. If only we could get hold of hobart.

Are you sure the taxes and fees are incorrect?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Are you sure the taxes and fees are incorrect?

Lol. Yes. $450 airport tax to change a routing dallas-lga-xx_ to dallas-ord-xx_. Agent said is a $450 airport tax for chicago, even though she acknowledged the QF booking engine showed the total fees of USD5.60 for a domestic award flight. She said it’s not carrier fees or surcharges, but an airport tax.

I asked if she thought there was anything odd about that… perhaps she booked a revenue fare instead of an award? She said no, she issued a ticket yesterday from Sydney to LAX where the airport tax was $515, so as this is a shorter route $450 sounds ok.

I would love to pull the tape on some of these conversations!

 

[levelnine]

I suspect it's the AF leg that is causing ineligibility

Glad you finally got through to someone able to help you.

You're correct that it is the AF leg that's causing the issue. They're not oneworld, so cannot be included in a OWA.

 

[MelbFlyer]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that if the IVR recognizes that you have called multiple times and had lengthy calls within a short period you are more likely to be routed to Hobart for the next call as it indicates a complex issue.

Hmm well in that case, I should have been transferred to Hobart all those months ago when I called up many, many times about the exact same thing - just wanting to make a simple change to one of my legs on my rewards itinerary.

Apparently it was too difficult for some consultants / they weren't trained on it.

Glad you finally got through to someone able to help you.

You're correct that it is the AF leg that's causing the issue. They're not oneworld, so cannot be included in a OWA.

I'm very glad too - I wish I could find business seats for my BA PE leg, but there's not even economy left for the date I want.

Regarding the AF leg, it's a flight from CDG to BCN and it's direct - I think I'll just cop the extra 20-30k points (as that's how much on top of 318k my trip currently is) to not have to transfer in London via BA and add hours to my trip. I'd rather get into Barcelona earlier than be stuck in London until the afternoon. (I'm the poster who's partner would rather take JQ Economy direct over QF business but having to transit somewhere - so I'm very glad that I was able to finally find (what seemed to be) a new QF flight to come home, and direct too).

It would be nice to get everything under the 318k, but I'm not willing to go out of the way to do it. I know a lot of people here are willing to (ie. make transfers in India / Oman of all places), but not me.

I'll still keep looking though and if anything comes up, I'll try my luck again.

 

[funnybrus]

Hmm well in that case, I should have been transferred to Hobart all those months ago when I called up many, many times about the exact same thing - just wanting to make a simple change to one of my legs on my rewards itinerary.

Apparently it was too difficult for some consultants / they weren't trained on it.



I'm very glad too - I wish I could find business seats for my BA PE leg, but there's not even economy left for the date I want.

Regarding the AF leg, it's a flight from CDG to BCN and it's direct - I think I'll just cop the extra 20-30k points (as that's how much on top of 318k my trip currently is) to not have to transfer in London via BA and add hours to my trip. I'd rather get into Barcelona earlier than be stuck in London until the afternoon. (I'm the poster who's partner would rather take JQ Economy direct over QF business but having to transit somewhere - so I'm very glad that I was able to finally find (what seemed to be) a new QF flight to come home, and direct too).

It would be nice to get everything under the 318k, but I'm not willing to go out of the way to do it. I know a lot of people here are willing to (ie. make transfers in India / Oman of all places), but not me.

I'll still keep looking though and if anything comes up, I'll try my luck again.

You could make the AF booking part of a seperate itinerary - should be 10k points I think. Would save you more if you find the BA leg in business

 

[MelbFlyer]

You could make the AF booking part of a seperate itinerary - should be 10k points I think. Would save you more if you find the BA leg in business

I've done a new search on the date that I require, there's only BA available and it's all via London.
2hrs on AF direct arriving at 9am vs 5hrs+ on BA via London arriving mid afternoon - I'll pick the former unless something else comes up (ie. IB)

I could change to a BA option (which would probably then re-calculate down to 318k and I'd get points refunded), but I don't want to have go through the whole saga again of the consultant not being able to see what we can see when doing a multi city search.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

how much is a paid fare for that route, compared to the cost of the AF award and carrier charges? AF and KL are notorious for making economy awards in europe valueless… the surcharges are often higher than the fare!

 

[MelbFlyer]

how much is a paid fare for that route, compared to the cost of the AF award and carrier charges? AF and KL are notorious for making economy awards in europe valueless… the surcharges are often higher than the fare!

I just checked a revenue fare on the AF website and it is AUD$1,170 for 2 passengers in business (which is what we've currently got).

As it's a 6 leg multi city rewards booking, I can't see how many points and taxes specifically for the AF leg now.

I understand that Euro Business is not "business" and it's just merely economy with the middle seat blocked out, but given the points difference between economy and business at the time of our booking (wasn't too much), we just chose business instead.

I might actually call up Qantas and see if we remove the AF flight, whether or not the points calculated will fall back to 318k - it should as the rest are QF, AY, BA (twice) and again QF.

I could then just book a cheap economy revenue fare in its place.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I just checked a revenue fare on the AF website and it is AUD$1,170 for 2 passengers in business (which is what we're in).

I understand that Euro Business is not "business" and it's just merely economy with the middle seat blocked out, but given the points difference between economy and business at the time of our booking (wasn't too much), we just chose business instead.

I might actually call up Qantas and see if we remove the AF flight, whether or not the points calculated will fall back to 318k - it should as the rest are QF, AY, BA (twice) and again QF.

I could then just book a cheap economy revenue fare in its place.

Yeah. BA has really really cheap club europe fares, worth while for the SCs and all then benefits if you don’t otherwise have status. plus the extra room! Mainland carriers don’t really follow suit as far as I can tell… lufthansa and AF groups are expensive.

Aside from the points refund, the lower surcharges might off set the economy fare.

 

[Mr H]

I understand that Euro Business is not "business" and it's just merely economy with the middle seat blocked out,..,

It isn’t always even that. BA Embraer flights from LCY have no middle seat to block, and LCY has no lounge…

 

[MelbFlyer]

So I called up and removing the AF leg has now recalculated the itinerary to 318k points under a capped OWA!

The taxes was almost $200pp as well, happy with the result.

I'll just get a cheap revenue economy fare in its place once I receive the taxes refund.

Still just a pity that my long BA leg (LHR to SIN direct) is only in PE rather than business (as there were no other options at the time, and now not even any economy reward seats).

I'm also not prepared to transit via the Middle East / India and the surrounds just to gain business class.

 

[Mr H]

I'll just get a cheap revenue economy fare in its place once I receive the taxes refund.

I would book in the revenue flights as soon as possible to lock in good fares - who knows how long the refund will take?